JOSIAH MCQUILLIN GAINS OVER 10 LB. PURE MUSCLE IN 4 WEEKS ON PNI! - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

JOSIAH MCQUILLIN GAINS OVER 10 LB. PURE MUSCLE IN 4 WEEKS ON PNI!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    Trust me when I recommend looking into PNI Prodigy. Nutraplanet has it at a great price.

    This is a GREAT booster if you especially want muscle hardness/dryness from strong anti-estrogen effects.
    Damn I am amazed at how well you know your products! First you say that Prodigy is a great test boosting supplement with strong AI effects then bring out this "special alert" which will without a doubt have people running this unsafe stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Damn I am amazed at how well you know your products! First you say that Prodigy is a great test boosting supplement with strong AI effects then bring out this "special alert" which will without a doubt have people running this unsafe stack.
    Actually prodigy is a pre-workout and im confused on how this stack is unsafe?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    I am sorry my friend...I doubt he was malnourished or glycogen depleted as he was a hard working, dedicated lifter before the supplements and did not all of a sudden go from doing everything wrong to everything right. You absolutely cannot discount the supplements in the OVERALL equation of the gains he made. While I am sure he made a conscious effort to perhaps eat better and maybe train harder/smarter you cannot say with any accuracy that his anabolic mechanisms were not also effected by the products. My guess is that the effect was a combination of ALL factors.
    Glycogen depletion has nothing to do with being hard working or well-trained. A low carb diet or excessive training volume can cause it. Considering most people here understand that supplements play a minor role in the perhaps 0.5-1 lb LBM that most of us put on in a month, it is simply false to say that supplements played any appreciable role in a TEN lb LBM gain in 4 weeks.

    What anabolic mechanisms were affected? If you could go in detail about how elevations in T can cause cellular hypertrophy, enhanced mitochondrial flux, capacity, and number, and paracrine microsatellite cell recruitment/myonuclear accretion, I'd be happy to entertain your theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post

    Actually prodigy is a pre-workout and im confused on how this stack is unsafe?
    Are you telling me or your spokesperson? Are you recommending we run NMDA with DAA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Are you telling me or your spokesperson? Are you recommending we run NMDA with DAA?
    We discussed this already thats not what we recommend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post

    We discussed this already thats not what we recommend
    But its safe? Thanks for answering the second half of that.
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    All of that said, PNI makes some legit products (arguably the best tbooster on the market), and their owner and employees/reps are all stand-up guys. They are one of few companies I'd actually buy from. Unrealistic claims are just a pet peeve of mine. An alternative explanation is placebo. From another post of mine:

    "And placebo can do pretty much anything and make you believe pretty much anything. This is why we have placebo-controlled trials. We don't compare drugs to control groups; we compare them to placebo groups. By knowing that you are taking ecdysterone, you are eliminating placebo control, which, coupled with your singular sample size and body of evidence showing ecdy is worthless in humans, leads me to conclude that the placebo effect has taken hold. I can give you two examples of such:

    http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/1972/00420/Anabolic_steroids__the_physiol ogical_effects_of.15.aspx

    The subjects taking the placebo that was supposed to be a steroid had absurd increases in strength in just one month. As I said earlier, there are heavy neurophysiological implications of placebo.

    Another trial which we had to dissect in school just last week was set up as follows:

    -Patients with chronic neurological pain were administered either narcotics or placebo
    -No difference was found in pain relief between narcotics or placebo, but both were vastly improved over control

    Here's the kicker though:

    -Subsequent administration of anti-narcotics (also placebo-controlled) abolished the pain relief in the PLACEBO group to a significant degree over the placebo anti-narcotics. In other words, one could extrapolate that there are major alterations in neurotransmitter/nervous system signaling, just from believing that you are taking something that works. Placebo can make you believe anything.

    To drive home the point, this is why we have clinical trials structured as they are. With a rudimentary understanding of ecdysterone, differences in rat/human Vd and compartmentalization, evidence in human trials showing lack of efficacy, and tracer studies in larger mammals showing no distribution to skeletal muscle, it is indeed safe to conclude, given our present knowledge, that ecdysterone is nothing more than a placebo."
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Damn I am amazed at how well you know your products! First you say that Prodigy is a great test boosting supplement with strong AI effects then bring out this "special alert" which will without a doubt have people running this unsafe stack.
    Ha ! I just clicked on the thread you got that from. That is a simple mistake meaning Paragon. If anybody knows products, training and diet Eric Broser knows what he's talking about so sorry for the misunderstanding. If you scroll down in that thread he notices the mistake and corrected himself. We all make mistakes, so please be respectful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post

    Ha ! I just clicked on the thread you got that from. That is a simple mistake meaning Paragon. If anybody knows products, training and diet Eric Broser knows what he's talking about so sorry for the misunderstanding. If you scroll down in that thread he notices the mistake and corrected himself. We all make mistakes, so please be respectful.
    Yeah Howwe was quick to clean that up.
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    Point of thread: Josiah decides he is interested in using PNI products so he BUYS (not was given - purchases) the complete stack on his own. Obviously not aware that he does not have to use D-Test AND Paragon he goes ahead and uses both. He takes these products as written out in original post and eats a clean diet and trains hard (ate well before and trained hard before, but pushes it to another level to support his investment in new supplement stack). He does this for 4 weeks.

    So, here is the exact equation (as stated and never hidden by any means)...

    Hard Training + Solid Diet + Name:  PNI_banner.png
Views: 128
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    = (for Josiah McQuillin) results presented in OP.


    This is not a lie. This is not exaggerated. This is just fact.

    Will the same happen for EVERYONE who duplicates this stack? No. Results may vary, just like with every single other supplement ever introduced into the sports supplement market by every single company in existence.

    Josiah, as promised will be here tomorrow to answer any other questions you may have. Thank you.
    *CEO BROSER BUILT INTERNATIONAL www.broserbuilt.com*WRITER FOR PLANET MUSCLE/IRONMAN.MUSCLEANDFITNESS.COM*NGA PRO BODYBUILDER*PHYSIQUE TRANSFORMATION ARTIST/CONTEST PREP GURU
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    Point of thread: Josiah decides he is interested in using PNI products so he BUYS (not was given - purchases) the complete stack on his own. Obviously not aware that he does not have to use D-Test AND Paragon he goes ahead and uses both. He takes these products as written out in original post and eats a clean diet and trains hard (ate well before and trained hard before, but pushes it to another level to support his investment in new supplement stack). He does this for 4 weeks.

    So, here is the exact equation (as stated and never hidden by any means)...

    Hard Training + Solid Diet + <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73 527"/>
    = (for Josiah McQuillin) results presented in OP.

    This is not a lie. This is not exaggerated. This is just fact.

    Will the same happen for EVERYONE who duplicates this stack? No. Results may vary, just like with every single other supplement ever introduced into the sports supplement market by every single company in existence.

    Josiah, as promised will be here tomorrow to answer any other questions you may have. Thank you.
    Thanks for clearing that up.
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    Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    You are quite welcome. Since some people apparently have trouble with reading comprehension and go off on meaningless tangents that have nothing to do with the point of the original post I felt it my duty to keep things on track. Now, if you all have more specific questions for Josiah like what his exact rep tempo was...which way his scale was facing when he weighed himself...which side of his mouth he chewed his food on...or if he perhaps practiced some kind of witchcraft in addition to simply training hard, eating right, and taking PNI products to help induce his pretty significant gains...he will join in the thread tomorrow as he promised to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post

    You are quite welcome. Since some people apparently have trouble with reading comprehension and go off on meaningless tangents that have nothing to do with the point of the original post I felt it my duty to keep things on track. Now, if you all have more specific questions for Josiah like what his exact rep tempo was...which way his scale was facing when he weighed himself...which side of his mouth he chewed his food on...or if he perhaps practiced some kind of witchcraft in addition to simply training hard, eating right, and taking PNI products to help induce his pretty significant gains...he will join in the thread tomorrow as he promised to do.
    Thanks for insulting me, I'm sorry that people were legitimately concerned with a company representative supporting a stack that they don't "recommend". I have no problem with PNI or the products they carry however you blowing these claims out of proportion makes me skeptical of your knowledge of the PNI products. This isn't bb.com so be prepared to answer questions when making outlandish claims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Thanks for insulting me, I'm sorry that people were legitimately concerned with a company representative supporting a stack that they don't "recommend". I have no problem with PNI or the products they carry however you blowing these claims out of proportion makes me skeptical of your knowledge of the PNI products. This isn't bb.com so be prepared to answer questions when making outlandish claims.
    Ok, I did not insult you but was making a point that people began stating I said things or did things that were never said or done in original post. Nobody RECOMMENDED he take both D-Test and Paragon, he just decided to. So, it was my responsibility to report exactly what he took although I could have easily left one of the two boosters out to avoid any of this.

    As far as NMDA and D-AA being "dangerous" when taken together I have never seen nor heard of any study that proves this and never have heard a single adverse event reported when these compounds are mixed. If any of you have studies or proof of either please post here so people can be warned to use one or the other and not both.

    Finally, no outlandish claim was made. I explained the stack, the time frame and gave his exact results. He paid for the stack and was not a sponsored tester.

    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    As far as NMDA and D-AA being "dangerous" when taken together I have never seen nor heard of any study that proves this and never have heard a single adverse event reported when these compounds are mixed.
    Few people in the world have mixed these compounds. Excitotoxicity does not produce tangible effects. Studies can't be done because they are too invasive in humans, who have different barriers to excitotoxic insult than, say, rats. It is incredibly ill-advised to even entertain the idea of megadosing NMDA agonists.
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    I would be more then happy to donate the produts for anyone interested in taking Luke and Eric up on their offer. I would love to see how people respond and I like the idea even more so because this is a very educated crowd on here. I truly spared no expense when working on these products and feel very confident that we have some of the most effective products on the market. I stand behind this 100%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73 467"/>

    **SPECIAL REPORT: Josiah McQuillin Adds Over 10 lb. of Pure Muscle in 4 Weeks on Premium Nutraceuticals Stack**

    Regimen:

    -Thermadex: 1 cap every morning before cardio/breakfast.
    -Paragon: 1 capsule 3 x per day spread evenly.
    -Prodigy: 1 scoop 30-45 min before evening workout.
    -D Test: 2 caps with Paragon morning an evening

    Before Stats:

    -Weight:179
    -Arms:15.5 in.
    -Bench Press:275

    After Stats:

    -Weight: 189
    -Arms:16 in.
    -Bench Press: 315
    Seems like a promotion to me. Maybe Special Report please do not try this should have been the title. You think its a good thing to put on facebook for people who aren't as experienced or have sources such as Dr. Coop or other reputable people to ask for advice?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigswole30 View Post
    I would be more then happy to donate the produts for anyone interested in taking Luke and Eric up on their offer. I would love to see how people respond and I like the idea even more so because this is a very educated crowd on here. I truly spared no expense when working on these products and feel very confident that we have some of the most effective products on the market. I stand behind this 100%.
    Fantastic ! I will be in-boxing the people that got ahold of me and do what needs to be done. Looking forward to this, thank you Chad !


    Reminder: Josiah will be posting what he did during these 4 week with diet, training, supplementation etc. Also will answer any questions you may have. Please show respect because he is a friend of mine and chose to make an account to share with you guys, thank you.
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    So March 2012
    Did he fall off the wagon before the PNI log?



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    May 2012



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    Or did he find a tanning booth and figure out how to pose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    Seems like a promotion to me. Maybe Special Report please do not try this should have been the title. You think its a good thing to put on facebook for people who aren't as experienced or have sources such as Dr. Coop or other reputable people to ask for advice?

    It IS a promotion. The products work and I have the right to stand behind and promote products that work. The products sold by every company on Nutraplanet are taken by people here, on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and everywhere else.

    Umm, and if you are trying to claim I am not reputable, I would simply need to laugh heartily in your face my friend. I have worked with more athletes, bodybuilders, teenagers, elderly, sick, healthy, injured, handicapped, men, women, etc, etc in the areas of diet, training and supplementation than likely anyone on this board and have never had a poor result, a single complaint, or have anything less than one of the best reputations in this entire industry. So, please don't try and play the card that I not as qualified ass our good friend Mr. Cooper.

    But that is not the point anyway. The point is that this healthy young man used our products, had zero negative side effects, and gained exactly what was stated. That IS SPECIAL and I AM REPORTING it! Thus, it is a special report. And yes, it is an ad for our products. And yes, we know PNI products will hasten results if you are also training and eating properly. That is nothing over-hyped or misleading.

    As for taking NMDA and DAA together...we are no longer even producing DAA because we know PARAGON is superior. We do not tell people to use both if asked, but they are both out there so some will of course stack the two. And until I see a single adverse report or study where someone takes both compounds and gets negatively effected nobody can claim it is dangerous to stack the two with any truth except in theory if anything -- even though I still would not recommend it because there is no need.


    But guys...meaning everyone besides the member I am directly responding to in this thread...check out the fact that Chad, the CEO, is willing to donate hundreds and hundres of $'s worth of product so that others on here can try the stack for themselves and make their own decision as to their efficacy. THAT really says something! That says that he is confident that PNI is producing quality products that work. He is not running away from this but rather stepping up to the plate and taking on the "challenge" head on. Stop speculating and use the products for yourselves. We are gathering a list of members who want to run the PNI stack and we will let you know more about this likely within a day.

    We DO thank you for your support and trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    So March 2012
    Did he fall off the wagon before the PNI log?



    Name:  482590_10150621419073671_590728670_n.jpeg
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    May 2012



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    Our did he find a tanning booth and figure out how to post?
    I'm not trying to be rude by any means but i would appreciate it if you would stop trying to prove that we are lying. Since you don't know Josiah and I do those pictures were when he was trying to do a MHP transformation contest trying to get into really good shape and yes lost some of his shape afterwards. So if you have nothing good to say please don't comment in this thread when you have no idea who this person is. We would never put false claims to the public. We mean nothing but good and trying to put good motivation/success stories people have received. Since i just was given the go ahead from the CEO of PNI i will soon show you around 7 more good success stories after I'am done with these kids. These great individuals have came to me wanting to do the same and yes i will be doing their diet and yes i will be sending these kids their workout every single day because I care about helping others reach their goals the right way. So i would really appreciate it that you knocked it off. Your not gonna get anywhere because theres nothing to hide. Please and thank you.
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    Eric I do believe you are missing the point, no one is doubting the products are beneficial. Chad, Howwe and PNI products have respect on this board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post

    I'm not trying to be rude by any means but i would appreciate it if you would stop trying to prove that we are lying. Since you don't know Josiah and I do those pictures were when he was trying to do a MHP transformation contest trying to get into really good shape and yes lost some of his shape afterwards. So if you have nothing good to say please don't comment in this thread when you have no idea who this person is. We would never put false claims to the public. We mean nothing but good and trying to put good motivation/success stories people have received. Since i just was given the go ahead from the CEO of PNI i will soon show you around 7 more good success stories after I'am done with these kids. These great individuals have came to me wanting to do the same and yes i will be doing their diet and yes i will be sending these kids their workout every single day because I care about helping others reach their goals the right way. So i would really appreciate it that you knocked it off. Your not gonna get anywhere because theres nothing to hide. Please and thank you.
    I'm not trying to get anywhere. You are advertising a stack that may or may not be safe. You were so tickled over the results that you just posted it up everywhere not knowing if its safe. Why don't you go around and edit it to say that we don't recommend using this stack because we are concerned with the wellbeing of our customers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post
    I'm not trying to get anywhere. You are advertising a stack that may or may not be safe. You were so tickled over the results that you just posted it up everywhere not knowing if its safe. Why don't you go around and edit it to say that we don't recommend using this stack because we are concerned with the wellbeing of our customers.
    We did not advertise that, we simply stated how he took it. I have done my research and noted they work by separate path ways and thus may have synergistic effects. I am doing the same thing right now with paragon and D-test to be honest with you to see what i notice. So far going great. I will send you the link to your inbox so you can read yourself. Starts on page 6. Hope this clears things up for you and shows you that the wellbeing of Josiah is mighty fine !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post

    We did not advertise that, we simply stated how he took it. I have done my research and noted they work by separate path ways and thus may have synergistic effects. I am doing the same thing right now with paragon and D-test to be honest with you to see what i notice. So far going great. I will send you the link to your inbox so you can read yourself. Starts on page 6. Hope this clears things up for you and shows you that the wellbeing of Josiah is mighty fine !
    You are advertising that stack. Its pointless to argue, what you are doing is wrong. Regardless of your research you cannot say it is safe however you will continue to promote the results. By doing so you are putting your consumers at a risk.

    The results may be there but the lack of knowledge or the google searches you have performed do not put me in a place of comfort. A single or a few individuals do not count as a study. Neither are they grounds for saying that it is safe. The prideful arguments that they showed success in an individual that cannot be verified no matter how much you try to defend them throw up a huge flag for myself and others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION View Post

    You are advertising that stack. Its pointless to argue, what you are doing is wrong. Regardless of your research you cannot say it is safe however you will continue to promote the results. By doing so you are putting your consumers at a risk.

    The results may be there but the lack of knowledge or the google searches you have performed do not put me in a place of comfort. A single or a few individuals do not count as a study. Neither are they grounds for saying that it is safe. The prideful arguments that they showed success in an individual that cannot be verified no matter how much you try to defend them throw up a huge flag for myself and others.
    Why don't you just leave it alone buddy. They were just showing someone's results who chose to do it on their own accord. They have already addressed you.
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    Psychotic symptoms during phenibut (beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid) withdrawal
    Posted online on April 19, 2012. (doi:10.3109/14659891.2012.668261)
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    Lovisa Högberg1, István Szabó2, & Jaan Ruusa2
    1Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden
    2The Center for Dependency Disorders in Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden
    Correspondence: Lovisa Högberg, Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, PO Box 281, SE-171 77 Stockholm, Sweden. Tel: +468-524 82 326. Fax: +468-31 49 57. E-mail: Lovisa.Hogberg@ki.se


    Background: Phenibut is a GABAB agonist that was developed in the Soviet Union in the 1960s. In Russia, it is used in clinical practice to treat, for example, anxiety and alcohol withdrawal symptoms. In Europe and in the United States, phenibut is marketed as a nutritional supplement for improved sleep. In different Internet discussion forums, there are several reports of withdrawal symptoms.

    Aim: Our aim was to share what we have learnt from a case study wherein a patient was followed throughout the whole abstinence period.

    Case report: A somatically healthy man in his mid-20s with a previous history of substance abuse took phenibut for 2 months. He noted tolerance development already after the first week and increased doses up to 20 g/day. Already a few hours after the last dose the patient started to experience subjective symptoms, at the third day of abstinence the patient started to hallucinate and the following day's symptoms were aggravated with increased hallucinations and confusion. After treatment with benzodiazepines the psychosis resolved.

    Conclusion: Phenibut withdrawal symptoms can become severe and have similarities to Baclofen, GHB, benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal. Benzodiazepines and supportive care seems to be the most effective choice of treatment for objective abstinence symptoms.




    Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...91.2012.668261

    Some may understand why I posted this and some may not. If you get it cool, if not just disregard and carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkgreene88 View Post
    Why don't you just leave it alone buddy. They were just showing someone's results who chose to do it on their own accord. They have already addressed you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    Psychotic symptoms during phenibut (beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid) withdrawal
    Posted online on April 19, 2012. (doi:10.3109/14659891.2012.668261)
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    Lovisa Högberg1, István Szabó2, & Jaan Ruusa2
    1Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden
    2The Center for Dependency Disorders in Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden
    Correspondence: Lovisa Högberg, Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, PO Box 281, SE-171 77 Stockholm, Sweden. Tel: +468-524 82 326. Fax: +468-31 49 57. E-mail: Lovisa.Hogberg@ki.se

    Background: Phenibut is a GABAB agonist that was developed in the Soviet Union in the 1960s. In Russia, it is used in clinical practice to treat, for example, anxiety and alcohol withdrawal symptoms. In Europe and in the United States, phenibut is marketed as a nutritional supplement for improved sleep. In different Internet discussion forums, there are several reports of withdrawal symptoms.

    Aim: Our aim was to share what we have learnt from a case study wherein a patient was followed throughout the whole abstinence period.

    Case report: A somatically healthy man in his mid-20s with a previous history of substance abuse took phenibut for 2 months. He noted tolerance development already after the first week and increased doses up to 20 g/day. Already a few hours after the last dose the patient started to experience subjective symptoms, at the third day of abstinence the patient started to hallucinate and the following day's symptoms were aggravated with increased hallucinations and confusion. After treatment with benzodiazepines the psychosis resolved.

    Conclusion: Phenibut withdrawal symptoms can become severe and have similarities to Baclofen, GHB, benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal. Benzodiazepines and supportive care seems to be the most effective choice of treatment for objective abstinence symptoms.

    Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...91.2012.668261

    Some may understand why I posted this and some may not. If you get it cool, if not just disregard and carry on.
    Probably a layer or two to understanding this .. Ninja-like ... I also could just be sleep deprived and way off, too. Interesting thread none-the-less

    I think it's Tough for some to believe such dramatic changes if they have never experienced them for themselves. At Age 17, I dialed my training and diet so tight, logging EVERYTHING for my own records and followed meal plans to the calorie and workouts to a T... I got bf% down to 5% for a few months before taking it extreme and developing an illness/obsession- anorexia- point is-- the
    Body is capable of wild things, regardless of what you use to supplement- the supplements r jjst that- and the dedication and knowledge is far more valuable. If you have the dedication and k knowledge though, your results will be greatly
    Accelerated and improved. That is what PNI did for this individual in the case of Josiah.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Probably a layer or two to understanding this .. Ninja-like ... I also could just be sleep deprived and way off, too. Interesting thread none-the-less

    I think it's Tough for some to believe such dramatic changes if they have never experienced them for themselves. At Age 17, I dialed my training and diet so tight, logging EVERYTHING for my own records and followed meal plans to the calorie and workouts to a T... I got bf% down to 5% for a few months before taking it extreme and developing an illness/obsession- anorexia- point is-- the
    Body is capable of wild things, regardless of what you use to supplement- the supplements r jjst that- and the dedication and knowledge is far more valuable. If you have the dedication and k knowledge though, your results will be greatly
    Accelerated and improved. That is what PNI did for this individual in the case of Josiah.
    Camillo thank you buddy for the kind words and your exactly right !
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    So much conflict ITT....
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    Holy crap that was tough to read through. I was thinking the same as Mr. Cooper in regards to glycogen and water weight. I've had a swing of up to 7 lbs that way.

    No matter how you cut it even a 2-3lb gain LBM in a month without aas is stellar!

    PNI seems to me to be a legit company with good products and I wouldn't think Chad, Luke or Eric would intentionally mislead anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post

    And until I see a single adverse report or study where someone takes both compounds and gets negatively effected nobody can claim it is dangerous to stack the two with any truth except in theory if anything -- even though I still would not recommend it because there is no need.

    Did you not read my post? When was the last time you perceived neuronal cell death? I can assure you that you've experienced quite a bit...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_PNI View Post
    We did not advertise that, we simply stated how he took it. I have done my research and noted they work by separate path ways and thus may have synergistic effects.
    Nope, they are both NMDA agonists, and supplementing NMDA may reduce DAA methylation via Le Chatelier's principle. So using both supplements is:1. Anti-synergistic/diminishing2. Potentially dangerous
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    Psychotic symptoms during phenibut (beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid) withdrawalPosted online on April 19, 2012. (doi:10.3109/14659891.2012.668261)HTMLPDF (109 KB)PDF Plus (114 KB)ReprintsPermissionsLovisa Högberg1, István Szabó2, & Jaan Ruusa21Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden2The Center for Dependency Disorders in Stockholm, Stockholm, SwedenCorrespondence: Lovisa Högberg, Department of Medical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Karolinska Institutet, PO Box 281, SE-171 77 Stockholm, Sweden. Tel: +468-524 82 326. Fax: +468-31 49 57. E-mail: Lovisa.Hogberg@ki.seBackground: Phenibut is a GABAB agonist that was developed in the Soviet Union in the 1960s. In Russia, it is used in clinical practice to treat, for example, anxiety and alcohol withdrawal symptoms. In Europe and in the United States, phenibut is marketed as a nutritional supplement for improved sleep. In different Internet discussion forums, there are several reports of withdrawal symptoms.Aim: Our aim was to share what we have learnt from a case study wherein a patient was followed throughout the whole abstinence period.Case report: A somatically healthy man in his mid-20s with a previous history of substance abuse took phenibut for 2 months. He noted tolerance development already after the first week and increased doses up to 20 g/day. Already a few hours after the last dose the patient started to experience subjective symptoms, at the third day of abstinence the patient started to hallucinate and the following day's symptoms were aggravated with increased hallucinations and confusion. After treatment with benzodiazepines the psychosis resolved.Conclusion: Phenibut withdrawal symptoms can become severe and have similarities to Baclofen, GHB, benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal. Benzodiazepines and supportive care seems to be the most effective choice of treatment for objective abstinence symptoms.Read More: An Error Occurred Setting Your User CookieSome may understand why I posted this and some may not. If you get it cool, if not just disregard and carry on.
    Sorry, but you don't understand science. A case study of a single individual does not prove the danger of a compound. This backwards theory would require:1. Perception of the negative stimulus (not true in the case of NMDA/DAA)2. Genetic predisposition and/or contraindicated environmental factors3. The assumption that a case study is synonymous with in vivo data, when in reality, the difference between an experimental trial and a case study is enormous

    Again, I'm not here to talk about any of PNI's products which I find superb. When I see misinformation this blatant, I can't just shut my mouth and put up with it .
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Nope, they are both NMDA agonists, and supplementing NMDA may reduce DAA methylation via Le Chatelier's principle. So using both supplements is:1. Anti-synergistic/diminishing2. Potentially dangerous
    Don't go getting science based on him now! He has something better then science remember!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post

    Don't go getting science based on him now! He has something better then science remember!
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    Guys,

    Let stay on track. I have nothing but respect for everyone on here and I am excited to see how people respond to the stack!!
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    Hello everyone. My name is Josiah McQuillin. First off, I'd like to clear up that PNI did not tell me to do this. I have had a friendship with luke and once he joined PNI I decided to try out Their stack. It wasn't paid for by them or anything of that nature. Now what people do not know is that this transformation was spurred by a buddy of mine. He was offering me steroids and in response to that I did this stack to prove I did not need any of that. I didn't just make a point to him..but I got him using these products as well. As for my training and nutrition, I made a 360 on both ends. My training intensity went through the roof which equaled more weight..and drive. I also did 30 minutes of low intensity cardio a week. Nutrition wise, I couldn't have eaten cleaner. Since I was only doing 4 weeks, I dedicated every single day to it. My food sources consisted of Chicken breast, Fish, lean beef, turkey, brown rice, and sweet potatoes. Day inn and out. Along with green vegetables and fruit. And as far as this being "impossible" I can respectfully tell you that every bit of my transformation was legit. Due to proper nutrition, training, and of course the right supplementation. I was just as blown away as everyone else, and I will stand by these products 110%. As you may know i used Paragon, Thermadex, prodigy, and D-test. i know D-Test isnt recomended with Paragon, but it was my choice to do it this way.If you have any questions ask away. Thanks
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    Thank you Josiah on the feedback man
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