- 12-12-2013, 09:43 AM
I know it's not really "Chaos and Pain" to post or follow some strict program.
I don't really follow a program, but I thought I might upload a system I wrote for reference, that I've kinda been training with and adapting for around a year now. I've been training like this after training a couple of years and reading the **** out of John Broz and Jamie Lewis' ****. I love high frequency, pissed off heavy training.
I originally wrote this for my friends to see how I train and maybe to use for themselves, and after being ordered by the CNP facebook to post on this forum, I thought I'd post it here for you guys to check out. I've had pretty awesome strength gains training this way for the last few months, amongst injuries and the rest of all that good ****. I train around 7-12 times a week. Still fully natty.
If you guys have similar **** you've written post it for some ideas?
Edit: I didn't know that swearing was censored, so if some stuff makes no sense, know I didn't edit it.
- 12-12-2013, 09:43 AM
• Upper body pulls/Curls
• Shoulder Prehab/Abs/Neck/Lower pulls
• Upper body pulls/Curls
• Upper body pulls/Lower Pulls
• Shoulder Prehab/Abs/Neck/Curls
• Overhead/Upper pulls
• Lift some f****ing s-****. Just make sure you do squats.
-Whatever you want to work on
• Aim for 20-40 accumulated reps on the big lifts. Aim in the 1-5 reps range.
o E.g., 10x3, 15x2, 10x1 - 2x5, 5x5, 6x2 - 3x3, 8x3, 3x3 - 3x5, 5x1 - 3x5 Etc. Lift heavy, low reps.
• Overhead = 1 of the overhead variations. Behind the Neck PP, Front PP, Strict Press, Klokov Press, whatever.
• Minimize rest periods as much as possible, aim for 60-90 seconds, maybe 120 seconds. The lower the better. Deadlifts can rest slightly longer, always aim for as low as possible.
• Superset assistance stuff/**** around at the end of training stuff to get it done faster + more intense.
• Aim to pull around as much as push. E.g., if benched 10x3, aim to pull (e.g., dumbbell rows and chin ups) 5x6, 10x3, 7x4, etc. Do both horizontal and vertical pulls, vary between days.
• Always lift as heavy as possible.
• Always focus on lifting as fast as possible, on every ramp up set and every heavy set.
• No belts.
• Lift as heavy as possible with assistance exercises, but higher reps (6-8) or maybe higher are permitted, depending on the exercise and time left to train.
• Aim for sessions around 90 minutes, 120 minutes max (excluding stretching, and including actual lifting time).
• When have time and energy, add in some lower pulls too. E.g., speed deadlifts, bulgarian split squats, olympic lifts, etc.
• Aim to do frontsquats 2x/week.
• Aim to get in 1-3 AM sessions per week, do some o-lifts and squats.
• Be able to change a session, e.g., if you wanna or feel strong to do deadlifts on wednesday, f-****ing do it. This is just a basic/rough outline of the way I train.
• Ultimately do whatever you want, just lift heavy, get some heavy as f-**** pulls and pushes done with high frequency & low rests.
Adding in Olympic Lifts -
• Do a John Broz ass session. Both Olympic lifts for 20-40 accumulated heavy reps, then do squats at the end. Try to get done 2-3 times a week (in the am?)
Substituting in Olympic Lifts -
Cut out some or most of the assistance exercises or cut out some upper body pushes, or just do 3 compounds a day. E.g.:
• Daily Snatch, Bench, Squat.
• CNJ, Overhead, Squat.
• Snatch, Bench, Squat, etc.
• Add in upper pull movements when have energy/time/etc. Try to get some pulls done.
The Big Lifts:
Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Olympic Lifts.
-Close Grip Bench, Behind the Neck PP, Strict Press, Front Squats, Heavy Speed Deadlifts.
Assistance Exercises to bother with: <- Dont focus on this bull**** do one, MAYBE two as pulling variations after the important s-*** is done.
Chin Ups (All grip variations), Heavy Barbell Rows, Heavy as f-**** Dumbbell Rows, Heavy as f-**** shrugs (as in triples you, c-****), Ab-Wheel rollout, Facepulls, Rotator Cuff f-**** arounds, Hammer and Reverse Curls, Unilateral variations of the big lifts (don't overdo this ***got, theyre just unimportant variations, keep them heavy and minimal), Good-Mornings, Bulgarian Split-Squats.
Ultimately just aim to lift heavy as f-**** squats, bench, overhead variations and olympic lifts. And occasionally deadlifts and upper pulls like rows and chin ups.
- 12-12-2013, 12:06 PM
I had never touched a barbell before last may and jumped right into a CnPish routine (yes, I know, the disclaimers were there) and wound up tearing my groin along with some very strained knees and part of a pec tearing away from my sternum (oh noes my aesthetics are ruined! omg!). Oops. Taught me a lot about what NOT to do though and recognizing an injury vs being sore.
Anywho I've settled on the L-R-B template that I eventually came across via Jamie's blog. Has structure to it and still has a focus on hitting those 1 RMs and heavy doubles/tripples each day while throwing in a good amount of accessory work and lots of flexability on things that aren't your big 3.
OHP (military, strict, BTNPP, Klokov, whatever) few 6-8 sets, some doubles/tripples/singles/whatever
Flat Bench - 5,4,3,2,1,1,1 working up to max singles (after warm up sets) followed by 2x3 back off sets around 70%
Incline Press - mix up between low rep and higher rep
Other tricep work (pushdowns, skull crushers, close grip bench, whatever)
Squats - same 5,4,3,2,1,1,1 progression with the warm-ups and back-off sets. Every other days I'll do 5,4,3,3,3 with front squats and pause squats
Leg press - 4 sets of 8-10 heavy as possible
adductor/abductor machine (great for the perpetually strained groin)
Deadlift same 5,4,3,2,1,1,1 with warm-ups and back-offs
Cleans (many variations)
Rows (barbell, T-bar, seated, whatever)
That's the mon/wed/fri schedule, mix things up depending on how I'm feeling, what's feeling strong. I find adding the leg press and other machines into my squat routines has really helped a lot moving my squat up, as eventually I do breakdown in doing a good squat and then hitting the leg press helps me move heavier weights without turning into a ****ty squat-morning.
Tue/Thu is assorted conditioning and Oly work and weekends is usually some shoulder/arms focus. That's the main template and basically just toss in more/less depending on the day, so long as the main lifts are always in there. Abs, arms, all that other stuff gets tagged in on whatever days I feel like it.
I'm by no means any sort of champ that people should take advice from, however, personally that routine of working up the big lifts to 95% 1RM and then finishing off with accessory work has been great.
12-12-2013, 12:18 PM
OP- How's your squat looking? I find daily squatting sessions trash me.
12-12-2013, 03:15 PM
This topic is awesome, i'm following!
Jamie: Didn't u use to Squat 5DAW & break a world record before the injury?
12-12-2013, 05:53 PM
After tearing something in my left leg and feeling intense pain in my left shoulder on the same day I recently decided a little more structure could't hurt.
I'm still a newb but this is what I will go for from now on:
Mon: Squat and assistance; OHWork
Tue: Bench and assistance
Wed: Deadl and assistance OHW
Thurs: Same as Monday
Big 3 are done biweekly and 4 days of overheadwork are the strict rules.
Extra sessions will be done when I find the time and will consist of the bear and grip plus whatever tickles my fancy that day.
Additional excercises can be added any time and will be whatever seems the most fun.
Assistance is whatever I want. Bench can be closed grip etc etc just a very rough plan.
I like not to press Overhead and bench on the same days since my left shoulder hurts for a few months now and I did Overhead every day (love it so ****ing much even though I am weak as ****) and pain was worse when I also benched.
Also since this is my first post ever that is cnp related:
Hi all and thanks CNP for all the awesome advice!
12-12-2013, 10:04 PM
So I used to have massive problems with knees and general pain from daily squatting. It got to the point where I'd limp to the gym, spend like 20 mins warming up then finally be able to squat (still, with massive pain). But Broz, and the rest of those guys from that world of training said I could do it, so I kept at it. I do full atg olympic squats with no belt.
I realised my particular weakness was lack of stretching. I was squatting everyday for ages but plateaued because of injuries, I was grinding my head against a wall but couldn't get more weight on the bar.
I started stretching around 3-4 times a week. 1-3 minutes for groups of muscles, mainly which I learned from MobilityWod. Mainly hamstrings/posterior chain, outer hips, hip flexors and quads/knee joint. Creating mobility and health through stretching these areas was a massive help.
I found that as soon as I focused on stretching a lot, my knee and joint pains f-***ed right off, and now I've been squatting daily for aaaaaaages without serious pain or inflammation. I get painful knees here and there, but not too bad, and no injuries (generally). My weight on the bar is steadily increasing.
Current squat stats:
160kg atg squats for doubles, beltless. Based on feeling I think 175-170kg 1rm. I wanna get triple bodyweight soon then I'll try to put on a ****load of bodyweight.
12-12-2013, 10:08 PM
12-12-2013, 10:38 PM
Definitely like this thread. I've been doing one of C & P template....(composed of different blocks like A...B...C.....D...etc. For example...
Deads 15x3 (~85%1RM)
Weighted dips. Just put on some heavy weight and got AMRAP till I couldn't go anymore
BTNPP 10x3 - heavy
BB curl 8x4 - heavy
Forearm work - volume
Delt work - volume
12-13-2013, 07:19 AM
I was sad as hell that I couldn't get leave to make a weekend trip to go take in a seminar with Klokov a few months back when he was fairly close to where I'm stationed right now.
Like I said above, I absolutely love the adductor/abductor machine or "good girl" machine for preventative work. I could give a **** if people think it's a girl's exercise, it has worked wonders for rehab and keeping groin strains at bay. Paul Carter recommended that one and it's been great.
12-15-2013, 11:54 PM
Hahaha, I remember Paul's coining the good girl bad girl machine.
We don't have one of those at our gym,
not sure how I'd feel about jumping on it though hahaha.
12-16-2013, 01:17 PM
12-16-2013, 01:57 PM
12-17-2013, 12:38 PM
I dunno. Mayo and stretching are tied in my book.
I'm so sick of not squatting after my knee surgery that as soon as I'm declared good by my doctor, I'm plan on doing a shiiiit-ton of squatting. Probably everyday.
01-19-2014, 10:35 PM
I've been using a template based off C&P stuff I read.
Because I'm combining it with a peaking cycle it's a little different at the moment but originally it was
MON - Squat and bench variants
TUES - conditioning
WED - Squat and bench variants
THURS - conditioning
FRI - Deadlift variants
SAT - Press variants
utlising C&P rep ranges and exercise suggestions.
It has solidified somewhat at the moment as I'm working through a peaking cycle, so it's currently:
MON - Squat cycle, front squat, weighted dips
TUES - Sprints
WED - Bench cycle, close grips, timed squats
THURS - misc conditioning
FRI - Deadlift cycle + whatever (Rows, Farmers Walks, shrugs, block pulls)
SAT - A press variation + whatever needs extra work.
Every day I do a morning session as well - something short- and so far it's been working a treat. Really enjoying training again, working ****ing brutally hard, and getting results.
04-01-2014, 04:03 AM
On training programmes
Overtraining is real in this sense - trying to do too much at once.
Everything is about a rate of progress you can cope with.
Go too fast too soon and that's how bad things happen.
I think a lot of this game revolves around the squat, and its odd how what seems impossible at one point, - daily squatting - becomes doable.
I usually have a massive feast on Fridays along with a massive training session over about 3 hours and Saturday I take the day off and eat little. Rest of the time its almost all protein shakes and meat fuelling squatting and benching sessions.
this works for me
squat -heavy protocol- 5 min rest periods work up to top single, do some doubles, triples for back off sets.
Deadlifts 15 singles on the minute, start out moderate and add a bit of weight as you proceed through the sets. I find this better than sticking with the same weight as the body warms up and hones in on the exerise it feels easier so adding a bit of weight every few reps is not hard.
AM squat - the 15 singles protocol
PM - bench - same
AM squat - heavy protocol
PM - Push press BTN - 15 singles protocol
Wed as Monday
Thurs as Tuesday
Fri - Feast/carb up day - one huge session at local gym
squats - light protocal
Chins/dips/Upright row/curl/tri pressdown/rear delt/standing abs/calves
Sat - off, protein based low calorie day.
04-01-2014, 07:03 AM
I've had to adapt again due to shoulder niggles. So at the moment it's:
MON Front squats, Rows, GHR
TUES Misc + biceps and triceps
WED Front squats, cleans, RDLs, lots of chins
THURS misc like Tues
FRI Front squats, wide rows, DB flies and triceps
SAT Deadlifts - either on the minute singles, or max reps in 12 mins, plus shoulders and biceps.
I also do stuff every morning. Mainly just skipping or swings.
Seems to be working at the moment. Not exactly CnP style but you gotta make exceptions sometimes
04-01-2014, 03:09 PM
I pretty much do a half hour of super-bears in the morning and just go full retard with various singles or triples for a half hour to 45 mins in the afternoon.
04-07-2014, 08:47 AM
Could anyone give me some advice on tailoring the CnP style for fat loss? I follow the diet and it's works, but I would like to see what I can do to optimize the training to stop being a fat ass.
04-07-2014, 08:49 AM
If you're keeping rests short and doing some complexes a couple of times a week you should be ok? You could always add some walks with a weighted vest/backpack
04-07-2014, 10:09 AM
04-07-2014, 05:53 PM
Agree. Just did prowler push/pull last might.
05-01-2014, 10:27 AM
I know Jamie rates chad waterbury.
Chad talks about 20 min steady state running 3x per week. You never increase the time, just try to run faster/longer/harder.
I walk down to the town centre and run back up the hill most mornings and have the weekend off. I have a couple of dogs and so it's good exercise for them.
Personally I don't do anything else bar walk and lift weights.
I have a lot of work on at the moment and cannot easily do multiple daily sessions. I have actually switched over to the advanced deadlift routine Jamie outlines in ''Destroy the opposition''. Seems very well thought out and balanced.
06-13-2014, 09:27 PM
Alright, so I didn't really want to post anything until I was completely ****ing sure this worked.
In @CNPJamie 's first training book and one of his blog posts he had this brilliant ass idea in which he would grab a barbell with some 45's on it (total 135-225) and just rep the **** out of it on squats for something like 3-5 minutes. Anytime he was tired he would stand with the weight on his back until he was ready to keep going. The basic jist of this was go for extreme weight or extreme reps.
About 2 months ago I started doing these on squats. I didn't start off with a pair of 45's and I didn't do it for the full 3-5 minutes.
I would do my singles until I hit my daily max on squat. (Lets say 425).
This is about 380 lbs of plate weight. I would now empty the barbell.
I would then put a quarter of that plate weight back onto (95lbs) the barbell so it now weighs 140lbs total.
Now I'll squat as many reps as I can. At the end I will hold it at the top for 10 breaths and then go for a second set of as many as I can. At the end of that hold it for another 10 breaths and then go for as many as I can. (a form of rest-pause training ala Dogcrapp). The whole thing took less than a min, and I was ****ing done by the end of it.
After this I'll do some minor lift for sets of 10 or w/e the ****.
Then I'll come back to the squat, put 75% of my plate weight back on, and do seven sets of triples, increasing weight each time and going for as heavy as I can.
In 4 weeks this mother ****er put 90 lbs on my ****ing squat.
So I did it for bench, and put 40 lbs on it. I did it for Military press, and put 50 lbs on that, 40lbs on my Klokov, 70lbs on my deadlift. NOTE: You do not rack the barbell ever on the rest-pause set. If its deadlift you remain standing with the barbell in your hands, if you're benching you keep the weight locked out at the top, likewise for squat and military press.
My muscle growth has also started back up again, and I look bigger than ever.
I've been doing this for 8 weeks now, I lift 3 times a week, doing each lift once a week.
Just something to try if you're itching for a change.
06-17-2014, 04:12 AM
Tried this yesterday. Is it normal that my first set is like 25reps and I can't do more then 5 on the second?
**** serious. I did a tripple with babyweigths as my third set and almost died doing it. . .
06-17-2014, 04:40 PM
06-23-2014, 02:05 PM
Gonna give this a go this week.
So are you saying on overhead press movements you are holding the lockout position during the rest pause?
06-24-2014, 01:43 AM
For a while I was doing 2 sets of max reps in 2 minutes on squats. I started with 60kg and worked up to around 75kg. Usually got around 40 reps on the first set and slightly less on the second. I've also tried doing max reps in 5 mins on press with just the bar (around 100 usually) and max reps in 12 mins on deadlifts. I worked from 140 up to 165kg and I consistently hit around 40 reps (so clearly it was a gas issue rather than a strength issue). All very fun little challenges that I would highly recommend.
06-26-2014, 02:23 AM
Yeah, you would hold out at the top.
I'd like to clarify that the % weights are not set in stone by any means and the idea is to work around them. Each component has different priorities:
Singles: Heaviest weight you can muster that day. Get worked up, angry, psyched and push it.
Max reps: Go for as many reps as you can, don't make a big deal if the weight is less than 25% and don't whip out you calculators. I like to get between 30 and 50 total for the 3 restpause sessions.
Triples: These are just work sets. The focus is not so much on the weight as having decently heavy triples for which you command the weight and feel awesome after. Most often for these I start of around 65-70% and work up to 85%+ depending on feel. If you're starting to need too much time to rest in between sets or feel worn down, drop the weight a bit and get it done.
06-28-2014, 06:15 PM
Started this week, using on bench, klokov and military press, will report back in a few weeks.
08-01-2014, 12:28 PM
So for the last month I changed my program. Instead of working out 3 days a week I now lift every day.
• Rope tris: 3 sets of whatever
• Bench: Work up to a daily max single, 7 paused explosive triples @75% superset with chin ups, a death set @ 50%.
• Squat: Work up to a daily max single, 7 paused explosive triples @75%, a death set @ 50%
• Some bent row for 5-7 sets of triples.
• Assorted bull****/retard lifts
• Rope tris: 3 sets of whatever
• Military or Klokov press: Work up to a daily max single, 7 paused explosive triples @75% superset with chin ups, a death set @ 50%.
• Deadlift: Work up to a daily max single, 7 reset explosive triples @75%, a death set @ 50%
• Some upright row for 5-7 sets of triples.
• Assorted bull****/retard lifts
Been doing this for 4 weeks, not a single rest day taken. I haven't spontaneously combusted or been riddled with arthritis or contracted syphilis of the gainz. The only thing I'm going to change is possibly adding in a morning session so I'll be working out twice a day.
08-02-2014, 01:08 PM
08-02-2014, 03:09 PM
08-05-2014, 02:43 AM
So I've been doing some version or other of Wendler for the past year or so, slow and steady, boring but bat****. Found Chaos and Pain blog a few weeks ago and finally finished reading the whole thing (well, skimmed most, read lots, and bookmarked stuff to go back to). And I came to the conclusion that really when it comes to training I am a beginner. So, today I started my version of what Jamie threw out in an interview as something for beginners to do. Don't have 1 RMs for anything, so I calculated my starting weights just from guess work around what I have lifted recently. I will add weight when it feels good (or bad).
OH Press 5x3
Push press 1-2 reps adding weight each set til failure.
Dips (weighted) 5x3
Chins (weighted one day) 5x3
Partial squats 1-2 reps adding weight each set til failure
OH Press 5x3
Rackpulls 1-2 reps add weight each set til failure
OH Press 5x3
So each day the first movement will be heavy plus partials/forced reps, the second will be fairly heavy, the third will be moderately heavy.
Today I weigh 91kg. Height 178cm. Age 42.
OH Press 3x50, 3x50, 3x52.5, 3x55, 3x55
Push Press 3x65, 2x67.5, 1x70, 1x75, 1x80
Squat 3x100, 3x100, 3x100, 3x105, 3x110
Deads 3x130, 3x130, 3x130, 3x135, 3x140
Food. Eat a lot more of it.
For example today.
150g kangaroo steak, 2 eggs, tomato, 6 olives, chilli sauce
Post workout protein shake
185g tin tuna, 150g rice mixed with beans, broccoli, carrots, cauli (150g total)
Handful of mixed nuts
Stew (Welsh cawl from the Stewroids posts)
Protein shake late evening.
My weights and diet will not be calculated to the tiniest degree, just going to go with it and adjust on the fly. Train harder, eat more, sleep more.
Looking at pushing this hard for 6-8 weeks, then reassess how I am going.
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