Epi + PCT + ???
- 06-04-2009, 02:12 PM
Epi + PCT + ???
I'm new to this forum. After reading about Epi for the last week and knowing one person who did it and gained 12 pounds in 4 weeks (!), I have been thinking about trying it (straight 4-week cycle). I have, however, struck out researching the safest way to do it and can't pin down very many specifics of how to cycle it with cycle support and PCT. Clearly, many people on this forum are extremely knowledgeable and am hoping for your advice and help on the specifics (timing/dosing, etc.). Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. My specifc questions are:
-I only work out 4 days per week. Do I take Epi 7 days a week or only on workout days?
-When do I take Epi? For instance - on day 1, when would I take the one pill? And do I take with or without food? On day 2 - when do I take the two pills? The third day, etc.
-Do I have to alter my diet? Is there anything I shouldn't or should eat or drink (like - is coffee, milk, fish, etc. okay or not)? For instance, Gaspari recommends against anti-inflammatories while on Haladrol and recommends Novedex XT be taken with meals that contain fats (like avocado or nuts, etc.).
-While on Epi, when do I take the cycle support - do I take it when I take Epi or first thing in the morning and then last thing at night, or...?
-With respect to PCT, do I start it as soon as I finish the 4-week Epi cycle or week 3 into my Epi cycle? When do I dose? How long do I stay on a PCT (I read 3 weeks somewhere)?
-If Novedex XT is an acceptable PCT, how many pills a day should I take in the PCT for week 1, 2, and 3 (assuming PCT lasts 3 weeks)? (I am 6' 1" and weigh 210)
-If Novedex XT isn't an acceptable PCT, why not? And if not, what is a good one? I read conflicting things about Reversitol (safety-wise) and assume Tamox is the more potent Novedex XT equivalent. If one or both of these are favorable to Novedex XT, what's the dosing for each day of my PCT?
Phew! Thanks VERY much for any and all help you can provide. Obviously, I am looking for input on all the questions i've asked and anytihng else you'd care to share. I really, really appreciate it.
- 06-04-2009, 03:29 PM
- 06-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Thanks - that thread was VERY informative regarding my PCT questions. It seems Tamox is recommended. But I can buy this legally and without a prescription. Is there a similarly available product for cortisol control?
As you suggest, I should be doing a lot more research - and I intend to. I've done many Google searches, but this has only gotten me so far. I would really appreciate links to things you've found helpful.
Still looking for help on this and the other questions - thanks again everyone.
06-08-2009, 09:38 AM
06-09-2009, 06:20 AM
If you're doing a straight cycle take the epi every day. If you're just taking it 3-4 days a week, research pulse cycling or 'pulsing'
06-09-2009, 12:24 PM
At this point, I'm a lot more consumed with researching the PCT. From all my research, I have conclude the following:
I should be taking cycle support for the entire 4 week EPI cycle.
When EPI cycle ends, I need a PCT and need to stay on it for 4 –6 weeks. While a lot of articles talk about taking a SERM (T booster) and an aromatase inhibitor (AI), the PCT should really be comprised of 3 main components: (a) T booster; (b) AI, and (c) cortisol control. From a timing perspective, I should start taking the T booster upon cycle completion and the AI and cortisol control products should be started about 2 weeks later. For AI, I can take Formex and for cortisol control, I can take Lean Xtreme.
But the T booster, is where I’m running into a problem. It looks like I should be taking either Nolva (Tamox) or Torem, but I don't want to inject and it seems the research places I've perused sell it in injection form. And, I recently read an article in MD that said a lot of these guys sell bogus or contaminated stuff. Any (all) recommendations would be welcomed and greatly appreciated on adjustments to my cycle/PCT plan and regarding T boosters.
06-09-2009, 06:08 PM
You don't inject it you drink it bro, and they are SERMS(nolva/clomid/torem) not just a test booster. None of the sites I've found have SERMS that must be injected.
06-10-2009, 10:10 AM
Yeah, Test booster was a bad choice of words.
I went to one site and the photo of the product includes what looks like a syringe. Maybe it's just a measurement thingy. Thanks for clearing this up. I found a few sites that sell it in tab or cap form. Is there any difference between liquid and cap forms (potency/availability, etc.)?
06-10-2009, 04:26 PM
I don't think there is a difference, besides the pills being easier to take and not tasting like battery acid
06-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Is there a way to send personal messages on this forum? And, if yes, how do I know if there is a reply/how would I retrieve? Sorry for the dumb questions, but I sent a PM to someone (I think) and don't know if it actually went out or if it was replied to/how to retreive reply.
06-10-2009, 05:56 PM
06-10-2009, 07:32 PM
06-11-2009, 09:28 AM
06-11-2009, 01:51 PM
Okay, here's my latest stupid question - I've concluded the SERM to use is either Torem or Tamox (Torem seems less toxic, but not sure if it's as potent relative to gyno??). Recommended dosing is:
Torem - 60/60/30/30 (week 1-4 respectively) or
Tamox - 40/40/20/20 (week 1 -4 respectively)
I assume this means that the high dose number (60 or 40 depending on product) gets spread evenly through the day versus taking it all at one time. For Tamox during week 1-2, does this mean 20mg morning and 20 mg night. And what about week 3-4? One dose per day - if so, when? Similarly, for Torem during week 1-2 does this mean 20mg morning/mid-day/night? And similarly, what about week 3-4?
06-11-2009, 02:20 PM
Go with tamox 20/20/10/10 it will still be as effective less toxic though.
You can take it any time of the day it has a long half life.
06-11-2009, 08:22 PM
It all depends as nparisi said, on the half-life....I dont know the half-life of torem, or of nolva, but if its short (like 8hrs ish) usually you wanna split the dosage, so you have a constant supply circulating in your blood stream. this will maximise your rebound. Also if you are concerned about strength of a particular compound, I know that clomid is weaker then nolva (mg for mg). Ironically it seems to elevate test levels to a normal state faster then nolva (so I've heard). A typical clomid dose per day is 25-50 mg for 4-5 weeks.
06-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Okay, thanks for the adivce. I had read a little about the half-life but practical experience is always an important factor in my consideration. I guess this based on knowing that things don't always work as stated. In fact, even time-released pills (i.e. 24-hour claritin, etc.) are only as good as the release mechanism and won't necessarily distribute evenly throughout the extended release period as advertised. I suppose I could break up dosing and take half the dose in the morning and the other half at night? Still having difficulty locating a cap form vendor (found one but the system isn't allowing me to register an account and their "live" support is always offline and doesn't respond to email). Anyone who knows of any reputable sources, please please please PM me.
06-15-2009, 08:22 AM
Okay, I think I'm down to the short strokes. I've located several vendors where caps can be purchased (haven't yet tried to pull the trigger as i'm still trying to determione if they are reputable but really don't have a good way on doing so), but most sell Nolvadex-D, not Nolvadex. I researched for an hour trying to find out the distinction, but had no luck. Does anyone know the difference between these 2? Thanks...
06-15-2009, 03:38 PM
just search for tamoxifen citrate that's the actual name of what you're lookin for and you'll find that easily
06-18-2009, 12:54 AM
Nolvadex = 10mg tamoxifen citrate per serving
Nolvadex-D = 20mg of tamoxifen citrate
this is the only difference I have found.