The Ectomorph's Guide to Gaining Lean Mass

  1. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Thumbs up The Ectomorph's Guide to Gaining Lean Mass


    The Ectomorph’s Guide to Gaining Mass

    Many people do not realize how hard it is for a true ectomorph to gain weight. Being a pure ectomorph myself, I have experienced these challenges first hand. Over the last year three months I have devoted all of my resources to gaining weight, and had stellar results. I have found some things that work and some that don’t. I have filtered out the ones that do not work and culminated a program for ectomorphs to gain mass. This is from my own experience and does work.

    Diet

    For the ectomorph diet is the most pivotal aspect of gaining weight. This holds true for any, but for the ectomorph it will be impossible to gain any sort of mass without sticking to a diet. The ecto diet should be extremely high in calories with no particular emphasis on one macro over the other. Carbs should be 50% of the diet, Proteins should be 30% of the diet, and Fats should make up 20% of the diet. A diet containing only 30% protein goes against many of the diets proposed in bodybuilding, but when calories are kept extremely high, protein will also be high.
    For instance, I recommend that ectomorphs eat roughly 4500+ calories per day. If 50% of that is carbs that means that you will be consuming roughly 650 carbs per day, 400 grams of proteins, and 150 grams of fat. 400 grams of protein is quite a lot of protein under any circumstances. Protein should come from sources such as BEEF, fish, and chicken. Don’t be afraid to eat a double quarter pounder with cheese every now and again. Carbs should come from mainly high quality sources such as sweet potatoes, whole wheat pasta, fruit, etc. but a fair amount (about 30%) may come from fast carb sources such as white bread, chips, white pasta, etc.
    Fats should also be 70% healthy fats and 30% from other sources. Healthy fats are nuts, fish, and oils like olive and grape seed.
    Ectomorphs should eat every 2-3 hours, these should be full meals. One meal should be eaten directly before bed. A potent weight gaining shake that can be taken before sleep is as follows: 4 scoops protein mixture (whey, casein, soy), One table spoon extra virgin olive oil, and 8 ounces whole milk, optional: 1 tablespoon of creamy peanut butter.

    Training

    Training for the ectomorph should be different than their meso or endo counterparts. Ectomorphs should workout no more than 4 times per week, with 3 being optimal. These workouts should be brief, but extremely intense. Growth occurs during the rest phase, so it would only make sense that ectomorphs need to rest more in order to speed growth. During the rest period actually rest. Do not waste calories on various aerobic activities, this will only slow growth. If you must do some cardio, constrict it to only once or twice per week, though my true recommendation is no cardio.
    As far as exercises go, stick to the heavy compound movements for most of your time in your workouts.
    Acceptable: SQUATS, DEADLIFTS, Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Barbell Rows, Pull-ups, Barbell Curls, French Press, T-bar Rows, Standing Calf Raises, SLDL, etc.

    Unacceptable: High rep adductor work while checking out the girls running on the treadmill, any product advertised on an infomercial, working out for four hours at a time, etc.

    Machines have their place and can be very effective in building muscle, but most of the exercises you perform should be the free weight variety.
    Ectomorphs must squat. This sounds simple, but for ectomorphs growth will be severely limited without heavy barbell squats. Squat until you feel as if you are going to die and you have probably done a good job. Deadlifts are the second most beneficial exercise for ectomorphs. These exercises not only cause the target areas to grow, but stimulate the entire body to grow.

    Reps should be in the 6-10 range and weights should be as heavy as possible. As you progress throw in things such as rest pause, negatives, and static holds.

    Supplementation:

    Supplementation does not play a very big role in the growth process, but it does play a role nonetheless. The following are supplements that I have found to get results in lean mass gain.

    Supplements:
    1. Creatine- Any form will be fine. Creatine stimulates weight gain via enhanced recovery, increased muscular function, and increased cell volume.
    2. ZMA- Proven to raise free test in athletes (Brilla), also increases sleep quality.
    3. AAKG (Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate) - Increases vasodilation and nutrient flow to the muscles. Increases muscular pumps.
    4. Protein Powder- This should really be in the food section because I don’t even consider it a supplement. This is a necessity.

    The Human Factor

    The human factor encompasses all of the previously mentioned areas. It is all up to the individual to grow. How much are you willing to sacrifice? You will find that the amount you are willing to sacrifice will be equal to the gains you make. If you are not gaining, it is probably not your genetics or a lack of supplements, it is most likely your own fault. Bodybuilding is more mental than anything else. Constantly have a mindset to improve and meet your goals and don’t let anyone else get in your way.
    One must always keep learning about new ways to gain mass, to squeeze out every ounce of potential. Keep learning, working hard, and working smart and you will reach your goals whether you are an ectomorph, mesomorph, or endomorph.
    Good Luck,
    Eggplant
    Last edited by eggplant21; 06-05-2008 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Gives more room for adjustment.

  2. New Member
    bkoguy07's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Age
    25
    Posts
    441
    Rep Power
    315
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    33.85%

    Good post, reps!
  3. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Some good concepts but too many rigid rules.

    5500 calories is hardly universal. I'm ecto but even if I could get that many calories down, I would simply get fat. IMO it's best to start with a BMR calculator and get a baseline calorie requirement. Then make up a starting diet on with measure portions and calculated calories. Test drive for a couple weeks and adjust as needed.

    Where did all the percentages come from?

    Finally, like it or not, genetics will dictate one's ultimate potential.
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    jspillane08's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    31
    Rep Power
    94
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    56.59%

    Thats dreadful advice, an ectommorph can certainly gain mass on less then 5,500 calories perday. WholeMilk?, quarter pounders? This is a great way to gain bodyfat for anything with a pulse for sure. Its not 1991 anymore you should retitle it an ectomorphs guide to getting gaining massive health problems.
  5. New Member
    jspillane08's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    31
    Rep Power
    94
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    56.59%

    650 carbs perday is this guy serious
  6. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jspillane08 View Post
    650 carbs perday is this guy serious
    The numbers themselves are not necessarily wrong it is the lack of specificity of who they apply to. All things equal, a 5'8" ectomorph does not need the same calorie requirements as a 6'8" ectomorph. Similarly a 5'8" ecto who shovels rocks all day could well need thousands of calories more than one who drives a desk for 8 hours.
  7. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Some good concepts but too many rigid rules.

    5500 calories is hardly universal. I'm ecto but even if I could get that many calories down, I would simply get fat. IMO it's best to start with a BMR calculator and get a baseline calorie requirement. Then make up a starting diet on with measure portions and calculated calories. Test drive for a couple weeks and adjust as needed.

    Where did all the percentages come from?

    Finally, like it or not, genetics will dictate one's ultimate potential.
    A couple of things: 5500 was meant to be a rough estimate, this was based upon my own experiences and upon the experiences of other ectomorphs. The percentages are also based upon my own experience. I think that carbs are very neglected in bodybuilding. I do not believe that a true ectomorph can gain mass without a huge surpluss of calories, and carbs will be high naturally. I have no problem with you post, except I have a slight issue with the last point. I believe that people use genetics as a crutch many of the times. They just blame the fact that they are small on genes. Don't get me wrong, genes play a role in it all, but I think that the human will can make up for much. This was meant to be a brief outline for ectomorph's looking to gain mass, perhaps I overestimated on the cals, though I would rather someone trying to gain eat too much than too little, so that was my reasoning there. Thank you for the constructive feedback, it is much appreciated.
  8. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    The numbers themselves are not necessarily wrong it is the lack of specificity of who they apply to. All things equal, a 5'8" ectomorph does not need the same calorie requirements as a 6'8" ectomorph. Similarly a 5'8" ecto who shovels rocks all day could well need thousands of calories more than one who drives a desk for 8 hours.
    This is a good point that I failed to address, thanks.
  9. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Quote Originally Posted by jspillane08 View Post
    Thats dreadful advice, an ectommorph can certainly gain mass on less then 5,500 calories perday. WholeMilk?, quarter pounders? This is a great way to gain bodyfat for anything with a pulse for sure. Its not 1991 anymore you should retitle it an ectomorphs guide to getting gaining massive health problems.
    I will try to be kind with this reply. First, again 5500 was a rough estimate, but I think for an ectomorph who is very lean anywhere around 5000 is a good place to start. Whole milk is calorie dense, high in protein, and high in fats (which are proven to actually be burned for energy very readily). A Quarter Pounder with Cheese "every once in a while" as I said is truly not a bad thing, though every day would be dreadful. You did have one thing right, is isn't 1991 anymore. Also I would ask what your current diet looks like. I would guess at 165 you probably could use a few more cals. All of this was based upon pure experience. I went from 6 foot and 150 to 208 and 6.5% bodyfat in one year and three months. So I feel as though my system was very effective, would you agree? I was just trying to share my current system so that maybe some skinny fellows out there could benefit. If you have problems with the guide, then kindly provide your feedback in a civil manner and I will gladly respect that.
  10. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Nitrox,
    I edited the cals slightly, its still high, but it allows for more adjustment from person to person.
  11. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by eggplant21 View Post
    I will try to be kind with this reply. First, again 5500 was a rough estimate, but I think for an ectomorph who is very lean anywhere around 5000 is a good place to start. Whole milk is calorie dense, high in protein, and high in fats (which are proven to actually be burned for energy very readily). A Quarter Pounder with Cheese "every once in a while" as I said is truly not a bad thing, though every day would be dreadful. You did have one thing right, is isn't 1991 anymore. Also I would ask what your current diet looks like. I would guess at 165 you probably could use a few more cals. All of this was based upon pure experience. I went from 6 foot and 150 to 208 and 6.5% bodyfat in one year and three months. So I feel as though my system was very effective, would you agree? I was just trying to share my current system so that maybe some skinny fellows out there could benefit. If you have problems with the guide, then kindly provide your feedback in a civil manner and I will gladly respect that.
    I think the main grievance was extrapolating individual results to universal advice - what worked for you, almost surely, will not translate directly into results for me. I know some Ectomorphs who are extremely prone to fat gain because of carbohydrate sensitivity; in this case, your advice would bloat them beyond belief, lead to SAT, and most likely cause some gastrointestinal stress.
  12. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I think the main grievance was extrapolating individual results to universal advice - what worked for you, almost surely, will not translate directly into results for me. I know some Ectomorphs who are extremely prone to fat gain because of carbohydrate sensitivity; in this case, your advice would bloat them beyond belief, lead to SAT, and most likely cause some gastrointestinal stress.
    Great point mullet. I guess that I had never met an ectomorph who was extremely prone to fat gain, so I did not even take that into account. I was going off of my own experience, and my college roomates experience (he gained 20lbs in 8 months, and lost fat) whom i trained this past year. I may have come off too rigid with the diet, but I still think that for the majority of ectos around 5000 is a good place to start. It was meant to be a rough guideline. Much of it was based upon commen sense anywho. For most ectomorphs they should eat alot, train harder and fewer times, and should be especially mentally strong. I did not intend it to be a strict guideline, which is why I included many "roughly"'s and "about"'s. I think that most ectos will grow if they follow those guidelines. I am sorry that I did not include carb sensitive ectos. thank you for you criticism, it is much appreciated.
  13. New Member
    jspillane08's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    31
    Rep Power
    94
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    56.59%

    Well I can't argue with a 150 to 208 jump with a 6% can I
  14. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I know some Ectomorphs who are extremely prone to fat gain because of carbohydrate sensitivity; in this case, your advice would bloat them beyond belief, lead to SAT, and most likely cause some gastrointestinal stress.
    What do people mean by carb sensitivity and how would one go about measuring it?
  15. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    What do people mean by carb sensitivity and how would one go about measuring it?
    I suppose a more explicit and accurate definition would be to describe it as the level of efficiency (or inefficiency) of one's energy metabolism and glucose homeostasis. Though, carbohydrate sensitivity is easier to say! (i.e., lack of AMPk activation leading to lack of storage in myocytes, overexpression of PPAR family in adipocytes, Akt deficiency, and so on).
  16. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    So in a nutshell, a carb sensitive individual would have a greater propensity towards fat gain because of 'impaired' glucose uptake at the cellular level resulting in a greater percentage of surplus energy converted to FFAs and hence greater percentage of fat storage?

    Sorry for going off track but this concept does not quite make sense to me. If two otherwise identical individuals except for their 'carb sensitivities' consume X amount of energy above maintenance in the form carbs. How can one store a disproportionate amount of bodyfat without having significant health issues? Also, since surplus protein is converted to glucose to be used as energy would it not lead to the same effects?
  17. Professional Member
    hardknock's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,205
    Rep Power
    18667
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    32.89%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    So in a nutshell, a carb sensitive individual would have a greater propensity towards fat gain because of 'impaired' glucose uptake at the cellular level resulting in a greater percentage of surplus energy converted to FFAs and hence greater percentage of fat storage?

    Sorry for going off track but this concept does not quite make sense to me. If two otherwise identical individuals except for their 'carb sensitivities' consume X amount of energy above maintenance in the form carbs. How can one store a disproportionate amount of bodyfat without having significant health issues? Also, since surplus protein is converted to glucose to be used as energy would it not lead to the same effects?
    Why would you say that one needs to have serious health issues if they can not "use" an effect amount of carbs which they intake? My brother can touch carbs and balloon like a whale, but he does not really have any health issues that any doctors have found other than the fact that his body does not use carbs efficiently...I on the other hand can consume 12 high carb meals in one day and not gain ANY fat due to thyroid issues...I ate 9 high carb meals a day for 8 str8 weeks and gain 7lbs, but looked more cut than before I up it to 9. Before 9, i was doing 3 high carb meals.

    EDIT: I meant for it to read, why would one have serious health issues if ..."
  18. Professional Member
    hardknock's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,205
    Rep Power
    18667
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    32.89%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Also, since surplus protein is converted to glucose to be used as energy would it not lead to the same effects?
    Not hijacking here, but do you mean how could it also not lead to fat storage?
  19. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    So in a nutshell, a carb sensitive individual would have a greater propensity towards fat gain because of 'impaired' glucose uptake at the cellular level resulting in a greater percentage of surplus energy converted to FFAs and hence greater percentage of fat storage?

    Sorry for going off track but this concept does not quite make sense to me. If two otherwise identical individuals except for their 'carb sensitivities' consume X amount of energy above maintenance in the form carbs. How can one store a disproportionate amount of bodyfat without having significant health issues? Also, since surplus protein is converted to glucose to be used as energy would it not lead to the same effects?
    Define, significant. Two comparable individuals could have differing levels of a vast number of energy metabolism enzymes, kinases, and hormones. Deficient Akt, AMPk, AMPkk transmission, p38-MAPK, extracelluar AMP:ATP ratio, deiodinase, and so on could cause differing glucose metabolism, though not necessarily be significant health issues.
  20. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    Why would you say that one needs to have serious health issues if they can not "use" an effect amount of carbs which they intake?
    Because it would mean that they have problems metabolizing certain macronutrients (ie. similar to diabetes). Additionally, the body needs carbohydrate to fuel intense physical activity, without it athletic performance would suffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    My brother can touch carbs and balloon like a whale but he does not really have any health issues that any doctors have found other than the fact that his body does not use carbs efficiently
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. If he can gain a lot of weight off of eating a few carbs then his body is very efficient at using carbs. Your body cannot store more energy than it is given - this is a consequence of laws of energy conservation. If he's ballooning like a whale then he is most likey consuming too many calories, be they carbs, fats, or proteins.
  21. Professional Member
    hardknock's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,205
    Rep Power
    18667
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    32.89%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    What I mean by that is it is not normal to balloon off of 2 carb meals a day, especially when they are not high calorie carbs...that's what I was saying.

    I wasnt' saying I didn't have any issues, of course, i do because i can consume high carb meals, be them complex or simple carbs and not gain weight due to thyroid problems.

    Yet, i consider his body not to use carbs efficiently either, if he's ballooning off of 2 carb meals, which are, as mentioned, not high calorie. I guess effectively may have been better...or over sensitive..
  22. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Define, significant. Two comparable individuals could have differing levels of a vast number of energy metabolism enzymes, kinases, and hormones. Deficient Akt, AMPk, AMPkk transmission, p38-MAPK, extracelluar AMP:ATP ratio, deiodinase, and so on could cause differing glucose metabolism, though not necessarily be significant health issues.
    I suppose significant is relative. My reasoning is that a pound of bodyfat is worth 3500kcals. All things equal, for someone to store a dramatically different amount of bodyfat on an equivalent calorie diet, it would require a dramatic shift in energy partitioning. I just think that would show up as something like chronic fatigue.

    The picture that Im seeing is one of a pseudo-diabetic. Someone who's body is reluctant to use glucose as energy but instead of it accumulating in the bloodstream, it converts a large portion of it to FFA for storage or to use as energy.

    Kinda leads me think that the person's metabolism would tend to run towards being in ketosis even with carb consumption. At the extreme, having issues with ketoacidosis.
  23. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I suppose significant is relative. My reasoning is that a pound of bodyfat is worth 3500kcals. All things equal, for someone to store a dramatically different amount of bodyfat on an equivalent calorie diet, it would require a dramatic shift in energy partitioning. I just think that would show up as something like chronic fatigue.

    The picture that Im seeing is one of a pseudo-diabetic. Someone who's body is reluctant to use glucose as energy but instead of it accumulating in the bloodstream, it converts a large portion of it to FFA for storage or to use as energy.

    Kinda leads me think that the person's metabolism would tend to run towards being in ketosis even with carb consumption. At the extreme, having issues with ketoacidosis.
    Inefficient glucose metabolism could very well be the culprit - that is what most are alluding to via the term 'carb sensitivity' (i.e., Insulin insensitivity).
  24. NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
    Steveoph's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    12,524
    Rep Power
    41245
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.2%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    A proposed method to find your insulin sensitivity can be found at:John Berardi - Massive Eating Part II . Also a calculator for once you've got your blood meter:

    John Berardi - Insulin & Glucose Calculator
  25. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Thx for the posts guys.

    I have done some Googling and it seems that 'carb sensitive' is being used interchangably with 'insulin resistant.' I think this is highly innacurate.

    Why? Two reasons.

    Firstly, insulin resistance is affected by overall energy intake within a specific time period. That means that carbs, fats, proteins, and alchohols (all sources of energy) all affect insulin levels and sensitivities. Singling out carbs is unfair.

    Secondly, the insulin 'sensitive' individual is considered to be the normal one - the one who efficiently uses glucose. An insulin 'insensitive' person is like a type 2 diabetic or person with syndrome-X (pre-diabetes). These people have an impaired ability to use/store energy and hence have trouble GAINING weight. They can be overweight to begin with and show symptoms if they continue eating at surplus energy levels or they could be a lean diabetic like myself who was never overweight.

    I think the misinterpretion comes from the fact that the terminology often refers to (plasma) glucose in the bloodstream. Of course glucose is a carb so people start thinking of dietary carbohydrate not what is circulating in the bloodstream (which does not specifically have to come from dietary carbs).

    What was originally proposed, that some individuals store a much larger proportion of energy intake as bodyfat when that energy is sourced from carbohydrate, is not the same as differing insulin sensitivity (or resistance - one is just the inverse of the other).
  26. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Thx for the posts guys.

    I have done some Googling and it seems that 'carb sensitive' is being used interchangably with 'insulin resistant.' I think this is highly innacurate.

    Why? Two reasons.

    Firstly, insulin resistance is affected by overall energy intake within a specific time period. That means that carbs, fats, proteins, and alchohols (all sources of energy) all affect insulin levels and sensitivities. Singling out carbs is unfair.

    Secondly, the insulin 'sensitive' individual is considered to be the normal one - the one who efficiently uses glucose. An insulin 'insensitive' person is like a type 2 diabetic or person with syndrome-X (pre-diabetes). These people have an impaired ability to use/store energy and hence have trouble GAINING weight. They can be overweight to begin with and show symptoms if they continue eating at surplus energy levels or they could be a lean diabetic like myself who was never overweight.

    I think the misinterpretion comes from the fact that the terminology often refers to (plasma) glucose in the bloodstream. Of course glucose is a carb so people start thinking of dietary carbohydrate not what is circulating in the bloodstream (which does not specifically have to come from dietary carbs).

    What was originally proposed, that some individuals store a much larger proportion of energy intake as bodyfat when that energy is sourced from carbohydrate, is not the same as differing insulin sensitivity (or resistance - one is just the inverse of the other).
    While misinterpreted, it is not highly inaccurate - reason being, while most of the people whom use this misnomer describe it as 'carb sensitive', they do so merely because of a misunderstanding of energy metabolism as a whole. Most likely, these individuals have energy expenditure (or lack thereof) issues as a whole, but assume inefficient glucose metabolism is the exclusive culprit.

    As I alluded to earlier, a great number of metabolic processes can affect the metabolization of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, aside from Insulin.
  27. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    So going back to the OP and the objections to his carb recommendations, I still don't think there is any basis to single out carbs as the cause of fat gain. Either they are consuming too many calories (not counting, counting wrong, or cheating) or they are consuming carbs irresponsibly (e.g. one 1000 cal serving of dextrose vs. say, 10 x 100 cal apples spread throughout the day).
  28. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    As I alluded to earlier, a great number of metabolic processes can affect the metabolization of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, aside from Insulin.
    Most certainly. No argument there.

    However, where are the measurements? If something cannot be measured and empirically proven or all other alternate possibilities discounted why bother talking about it?

    If a diet of X + Y + Z = W calories leads to unnacceptable fat gain then adjustment of any combination of X, Y, or Z so that W is less will suffice.
  29. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    So going back to the OP and the objections to his carb recommendations, I still don't think there is any basis to single out carbs as the cause of fat gain. Either they are consuming too many calories (not counting, counting wrong, or cheating) or they are consuming carbs irresponsibly (e.g. one 1000 cal serving of dextrose vs. say, 10 x 100 cal apples spread throughout the day).
    Exactly. The issue here is energy metabolism as a whole (and more importantly, the lack of understanding surrounding it). As you said, a specific inefficiency of glucose metabolism is indicative of IDDM, or at the very least NIDDM, and would be cause for concern. However, as I have stated, energy expenditure pathways are incredibly complex and work in an aggregate fashion - that is, cumulative minor inefficiencies, while not major enough to warrant therapy or specific notice, when combined, can produce different nutrient utilization in two otherwise comparable individuals.
  30. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.19%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Exactly. The issue here is energy metabolism as a whole (and more importantly, the lack of understanding surrounding it). As you said, a specific inefficiency of glucose metabolism is indicative of IDDM, or at the very least NIDDM, and would be cause for concern. However, as I have stated, energy expenditure pathways are incredibly complex and work in an aggregate fashion - that is, cumulative minor inefficiencies, while not major enough to warrant therapy or specific notice, when combined, can produce different nutrient utilization in two otherwise comparable individuals.
    Ah ok. Sounds like were taking different approaches to saying the same thing. Phew...
  31. New Member
    thewrx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    52
    Rep Power
    115
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    52.31%

    Quote Originally Posted by eggplant21 View Post
    I will try to be kind with this reply. First, again 5500 was a rough estimate, but I think for an ectomorph who is very lean anywhere around 5000 is a good place to start. Whole milk is calorie dense, high in protein, and high in fats (which are proven to actually be burned for energy very readily). A Quarter Pounder with Cheese "every once in a while" as I said is truly not a bad thing, though every day would be dreadful. You did have one thing right, is isn't 1991 anymore. Also I would ask what your current diet looks like. I would guess at 165 you probably could use a few more cals. All of this was based upon pure experience. I went from 6 foot and 150 to 208 and 6.5% bodyfat in one year and three months. So I feel as though my system was very effective, would you agree? I was just trying to share my current system so that maybe some skinny fellows out there could benefit. If you have problems with the guide, then kindly provide your feedback in a civil manner and I will gladly respect that.
    Your numbers from 150 to 208 w/ 6% bodyfat seems a little exaggerated. No proof but little to optimistic or there are other factors involved.
  32. New Member
    eggplant21's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    127
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    48.59%

    Quote Originally Posted by thewrx View Post
    Your numbers from 150 to 208 w/ 6% bodyfat seems a little exaggerated. No proof but little to optimistic or there are other factors involved.
    They are actually a little underexaggerated if I may be honest, I really started at like 147.5 and am currently at 208.3, body fat is still 6-7%. I'm not sure what your last sentence meant, but I can assure that I am not lying.
  33. Senior Member
    chainsaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    3821
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    55.42%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    So what if you are an Ecto (6'3" 205) and carb sensitive/insulin resistant as I am. I have always stuck to a diet of 60/30/10-50/30/20, but this is not a good idea if you are carb sensitive.

    What are bulking options for the insulin resistant?
  34. Elite Member
    suncloud's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,352
    Rep Power
    3261
    Level
    52
    Lv. Percent
    30.8%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    i did a writeup vaguely similar

    Gaining mass in a nutshell (a big nutshell)

    i also am an extreme ecto - graduated HS around 135 lbs at 5'9" then had dropped to 117 when i joined the army a year later. i've been training seriously for two years, and am 181 lbs right now around 10% body fat.
  35. New Member
    faetfiada's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    111
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    90.77%

    4000-4500 calories and training 4x week i just got fat. and those were 90% clean cals with a slice or two of pizza on sunday afternoons. i do better around 3000 with lots of sleep!!!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Gaining lean body mass with Katanadrol V2.0
    By kyled427 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-14-2011, 02:46 PM
  2. losing body fat/gaining lean muscle mass
    By rojasdave in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-14-2011, 05:09 PM
  3. would a ectomorph gain mass from GVT?
    By rustlerracer in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-30-2009, 09:48 AM
  4. Critique my Ectomorph Mass Building Routine..
    By CrownRoyal in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 11:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in