The Secret to Bulking

[RenegadeRows]

Now your probably saying, "This guy doesn't have any secret to bulking up." Your damn straight I don't. It's so obvious and it's been in front of you the whole time. "How do I gain weight Renegade? I'm a hard-gainer. I only weigh 135lbs and can't gain a pound."

What took me years to figure out, I'm going to give to you in one post!

I spent the better half of my teenage years being uncomfortable with my tiny frame. I weighed 130lbs when it was raining, and most of my friends were pushing 200lbs. I was constantly singled out as being weak. I tried to make up for my tiny frame by being aggressive, proving myself in fist-fights and brawls. This was all well and good for my reputation as a thug, but as I got older and outgrew that sillyness, I was still unhappy with my physical state.

But it was time to get serious. With the help of a friend / coworker who was a weight lifter, he hooked me up with the standard 5 day / 1 bodypart per week split. I had always done pushups and been athletic, but this was different. It was time to get f*cking huge. Using old concrete weights my father gave me, it was my time to shine.

I trained my ass off for months in my basement, doing heavy bench, military press, rows, pullups, dips. I was drinking Cell-Tech twice a day and trying to swill protein shakes, even taking andro (stupidly). I would see my friend everyday and tell him "I'm working out every day, and taking these supplements but I'm not getting bigger."

He told me the answer but I didn't want to beleive it was that easy.

It wasn't until I met my girlfriend that I understood what it took, when she started making me hardy meals. When we started going out to restaurants.

Bulking is all about your diet, not your training

It's that simple. Force feed yourself and you will gain weight. Train hard and you will gain GOOD weight.

You need to eat way more than you do now. You have to eat two of everything and wash it down with a protein shake. Forget about health, fat gain and all that. Go out and eat a Big Mac with a chocolate shake, then go do 10 sets of squats. BULKING means getting BIG and you get BIG by EATING, EATING, EATING.

I trained as hard as I could for months and only gained a lb or two. But I started eating like a horse and put on weight. It's not as easy as it sounds, it will take ALOT of work. Lifting is the fun part. Making food constantly and eating constantly is f*cking tough. Make sure to buy a bottle of Tums or Maloxx because you will have some serious heart burn going on from your increase in calories.

But that's how you get big, plain and simple.

 

[SteelEntity]

For the super hard gainers out there I definately agree. Dirty bulking is a very effective way to put on the lbs ( as long as putting on fat is alright). I for one am a dirty bulker, I bulk up and worry about cutting fat later, trying to achieve impressive gains while limiting food intake are two things that contradict each other.

Everyone is different though. I have a friend who is a text book ectomorph. I suggested eating his ass off and training hard and his results were minimal at best. It wasn't until he started eating clean food and working out 3 days a week when he started to gain. For many hard gainers over training is a huge issue.

In my opinion the mental approach to bulking is very significant. For beginners especially, obsession with getting big can cause a huge amount of stress which in turn promotes numerous physical and mental set backs. I had this issue years ago. I was so set on getting big it was all I thought about, getting on the scale every morning just to be disapointed. I was getting sick often and believe it seriously held back my potential gains. Stress is a killer. Even though I take lifting seriously I learned to let it be just a part of my life, not my life. To many young kids, or adults with barely any effort put in naturally turn to anabolics prematurely.

 

[srx600]

stress

How big do you think stress is in hindering gains? and why?

 

[beebab]

How big do you think stress is in hindering gains? and why?

stress signals your body to release more Cortisol, the catabolic hormone that will radically hinder your gains. your body releases cortisol in response to mental stress, as well as the physical stress of working out. so it stands to reason that the more you worry yourself, the more you will impede improvement.

it really is best just to lift, eat right and not worry about it so much. the more you agonize over the hobby, the slower your gains will be and the more boring you will be as a person. i know this from experience. don't get me wrong, i'm still very dedicated to bodybuilding and im serious about my goals. but i learned to joke about and not be so uptight about things and it works out for the better.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm an ultra easy gainer, so I have the reverse issue, managing to look lean enough to be happy about it

 

[Cellardude]

good posting RR.

 

[brittishbulldog]

good post

 

[HITscientist]

Hardgainer maybe. Meso and Endo morph's not so much. Anyone can get "fat" or eat 6,000 calories a day "dirty". Show me shoveling down 6,00 calories "clean" per day, that's force feeding!

Not saying your wrong, because if it works for you great, but that may not be the case for everyone.

Diet's in bodybuilding are not cookie cutter. EVERYONE needs a slightly different diet.

I've done a dirty bulk in the past, but in the end how much "muscle" did you really gain and how much did you have to sacrifice becuase you were pushing hard to strip the fat?

I've dirty bulked from 180-240 over a year and a half but in the end my shredded contest weight is still 178-180. Now I clean bulk comfortably and stay around 210-220.

Again, whatever works for you...

Also, did you ever consider maybe you were training too much? Even if you were working "one body part per day" sometimes you may indirectly involve the same muscle even doing a different exercise? Just a question....

I do like your one statement though, that this sport is all about diet. 40% diet, 40% rest, 20% training.

 

[HITscientist]

Forgot to add, even though my contest weight is still 178-180, I did look better at 180 then when I started that dirty bulk. Still though, if I look the same at 178 coming down from 220 as I do coming down from 240, then why go up to 240 when it's just THAT MUCH MORE to diet down?

 

[SteelEntity]

I think that the general rule "8 hours of sleep minimum" is bull****. Get the sleep YOU require. Some need 8-9 hours others need 6 and thats it. Look at pro bb like ronnie coleman, he sleeps 5.5 hours max a night. Now you guys will probably point out hes on gear and GH to the gills. But even before he was pro he had those sleeping habits his whole life.

 

[SteelEntity]

Forgot to add, even though my contest weight is still 178-180, I did look better at 180 then when I started that dirty bulk. Still though, if I look the same at 178 coming down from 220 as I do coming down from 240, then why go up to 240 when it's just THAT MUCH MORE to diet down?

Good point. It depends on the individual though. I find cutting while preserving muscle somewhat easy. My take on dirty bulking is better safe then sorry. I could not stand to think I am not supplying my body with sufficient calories to build muscle. Additionally, when done the dirty bulk my maintenance calories are so high that dieting requires not much sacrifice in terms of food/cardio.

 

[EasyEJL]

Hardgainer maybe. Meso and Endo morph's not so much. Anyone can get "fat" or eat 6,000 calories a day "dirty". Show me shoveling down 6,00 calories "clean" per day, that's force feeding!

I can barely reach 3000 clean calories. It feels like serious work to hit 3500 unless I am relying on WMS + whey for an awful lot of it.

 

[haiz69]

I can barely reach 3000 clean calories. It feels like serious work to hit 3500 unless I am relying on WMS + whey for an awful lot of it.

Really? I guess I underestimate my hunger.

I can eat 6,000 calories of oatmeal, Chicken, Eggs, Broccoli, Beans and Brown Rice and still be hungry.

 

[EasyEJL]

Really? I guess I underestimate my hunger.

I can eat 6,000 calories of oatmeal, Chicken, Eggs, Broccoli, Beans and Brown Rice and still be hungry.

crap, not me. I have a hard time choking down a 1000 clean calorie meal every 6-7 hours. I end up usually doing filler bars + shakes inbetween, it seems the only way I can fit it in. I started (no one laugh) taking Mass XXX from GNC as its a fairly clean 750ish cal shake made with water. 124g of carbs as mostly matlodextrin, 50g protein mixed whey/soy I think, and like 5g of fat. That way I get the one spike of that calorie wise pre-workout, and then post workout have a solid meal, mixed carbs - usually a glass of grapefruit juice, a bannanna, a 100% whey isolate shake for 30g, natural nut butter on white toast with marshmellow fluff sandwich. So I'm at 1300 post workout, but I can't eat again after that for 5-6 hours.

 

[HITscientist]

"easy" damn man that's rough. If I dip below 3200 calories, I feel like I'm a starving ethiopian (no disrespect intended, just trying to make a point). I can easily eat 4,000+ clean calories and be just satisfied.

Try eating higher calorie foods, steak, whole eggs, whole wheat pasta, whole wheat cereals (eat with whey shake) etc etc. If your trying to eat green beans and tuna and reach 4,000 calories, you may burst before getting there lol!

I HAD A CHEAT DAY YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!! WHOOO HOOOO FELT GREAT!

 

[B5150]

There really is no need to put nutritionally poor food into you body to bulk up. Even for hard gainers. Those who chose to eat at McD's and the like to get there calories are sacrificing nutrition for calories. Not to mention those calories are from fats, bad fats. If you need to eat garbage to get calories then you really need to consider you lack of knowledge in nutrition.

For thos who eat ther vegetables 3-5x a day like they should can easily add hundreds of calories to their diets. Just by adding one tablespoon of XVOO to each of those vegatable containing meals you 675 calories. If you chose to use two tablespoons that would be 1350 calories. On a 4000 calorie diet that equates to a 33% fat macro. Not to mention the added health benefits from the added oil.

Oils are not supplements they are staples. Eating very clean for a diet or a bulk is simple. All the foods that I eat are clean meats, vegetables and oats. The only thing that changes from cutting to bulking is the total calories and a reduction or increase in carbohydrates.

It is rather simple if you know what you are doing.

 

[EasyEJL]

There really is no need to put nutritionally poor food into you body to bulk up. Even for hard gainers. Those who chose to eat at McD's and the like to get there calories are sacrificing nutrition for calories. Not to mention those calories are from fats, bad fats. If you need to eat garbage to get calories then you really need to consider you lack of knowledge in nutrition.

For thos who eat ther vegetables 3-5x a day like they should can easily add hundreds of calories to their diets. Just by adding one tablespoon of XVOO to each of those vegatable containing meals you 675 calories. If you chose to use two tablespoons that would be 1350 calories. On a 4000 calorie diet that equates to a 33% fat macro. Not to mention the added health benefits from the added oil.

Oils are not supplements they are staples. Eating very clean for a diet or a bulk is simple. All the foods that I eat are clean meats, vegetables and oats. The only thing that changes from cutting to bulking is the total calories and a reduction or increase in carbohydrates.

It is rather simple if you know what you are doing.

I'm doing 30-40g of fish oil a day now and that seems to be helping some, still hard for me to get much over 3000 in solid food unless I raise oils even more. And i'd kind of like my poop to stay solid

 

[B5150]

But that equates to 30-40g of fat. One tablespoon of XVOO is 15g of fat. Add one with each of four meal and you just added 540 calories.

I would experiment with dropping some the FO and adding the XVOO. I suspect that FO (depending upon form and grade) may be what is causing your stool issues. But I could be wrong, as I don't know your diet or metabolism.

 

[HITscientist]

I agree with B5150 although if we look deeper into nutrition and nutritional metabolic body chemistry so people need different ratio's and need different sources of food.

One thing is for sure though, to eat clean on a bulk is not hard, it just takes some preperation and thought.

 

[B5150]

Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) I do not do well with a surplus of carbohydrates. So my source of surplus is usually from healthy fats.

 

[EasyEJL]

But that equates to 30-40g of fat. One tablespoon of XVOO is 15g of fat. Add one with each of four meal and you just added 540 calories.

I would experiment with dropping some the FO and adding the XVOO. I suspect that FO (depending upon form and grade) may be what is causing your stool issues. But I could be wrong, as I don't know your diet or metabolism.

Oh its still solid, i'm just afraid going much higher would make it loose. But I can try it, what the heck, worse that happens is I have to stop afterwards or wear Depends. How about grapeseed oil vs EVOO?

 

[B5150]

I have never used it but I believe it is very healthy.

I eat a meat (tuna, chicken, beef) with broc/caul mix. I put one to two tablespoons (depending upon goals) because it just taste damn good.

If I am feeling my Italian heritage I'll add some black pepper, basil, oregano and maybe even some rosemary and garlic.

 

[brittishbulldog]

I think that the general rule "8 hours of sleep minimum" is bull****. Get the sleep YOU require. Some need 8-9 hours others need 6 and thats it. Look at pro bb like ronnie coleman, he sleeps 5.5 hours max a night. Now you guys will probably point out hes on gear and GH to the gills. But even before he was pro he had those sleeping habits his whole life.

i agree 100% that 8 hours sleep min is complete bollocks, if i sleep more than 7 i cant not stay awake but when i get 6 hours sleep im full of energy

 

[Moyer]

I like Renegade's post. I used to be one of the skinny "hard gainers" (the hard gainer part is really bs, I just didn't have the kind of appetite that most people do). I was brainwashed into the low fat/low GI/extra high protein bandwagon. Good luck getting a naturally skinny guy to gain well on that. He'll be miserable and he'll only stick to it if he has OCD.

When it comes to fat gain/loss, calorie totals & overall macro ratios are a HELLUVA lot more important.

The reason most people get fat from "dirty" bulking is not because more of their calories are coming from high GI carbs and saturated fat. It's because they're not counting calories and when eating fast food, pizza, and ice cream, it's easy to eat 1000 cal/day surplus. Where as the same person struggles like hell to eat a 500 cal/day surplus of oatmeal, egg whites, and tuna. Having such a high surplus is just not conducive to lean gains.

IMO, the ideal bulk is somewhere in between. Continue to stay away from trans fat and extra high amounts of saturated fat(for overall health), but welcome all carb sources as long as I can still fit in the usual amount of vegetables & fruits & whole grains. B5150's diet would work very well for someone that needs more fat. But for those of us that do better with high carb diets, it's very nice to open the door to more pasta, cereal, sugar, etc. Just be careful you're not overeating. Gaining 6lbs/month or more will make anyone fat in the long run (4 probably will too).

 

[HITscientist]

Yes, like I said you will find out very quicklyl how different foods react to your body (i.e: carbs, fats). Most people aren't aware or research in depth about how certain foods based on their chemical components effect their metabolism. As bodybuilders we think whole grains, lean meats, moderate- low fat diets. However for some people that is the worst thing they could do. Some people actually need to AVOID whole grains and stick with dairy and fibrous carb sources, accompannied with super high fats. There are 15 chemical components in our metabolic profile that have the biggest push or pull in metabolism when they are out of whack they can cause problems (diseases, or a harder time gaining muscle/striping fat). However you need to send some samples into a lab to find out exactly where you lie, but it the best thing you could possibly do.

I think "hard gainer" is a joke. No such thing. Fu**ing eat until you gain weight. Add 250-500 calories a week until you see some gains.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Glad my post sparked such good conversation!!!

The point is ... bulking is all about your diet, not the training!

"You cant build a house without bricks!"

 

[EasyEJL]

Glad my post sparked such good conversation!!!

The point is ... bulking is all about your diet, not the training!

"You cant build a house without bricks!"

For sure, basically intake - work done = surplus to build with. No surplus and you can burn fat to build muscle potentially. Too much surplus and not enough training and you build a house with soft muddy bricks. What i'm finding to be a ridiculously successful bulking training mechanism is GVT (German Volume Training) as taught by Charles Poliquin

 

[RenegadeRows]

For sure, basically intake - work done = surplus to build with. No surplus and you can burn fat to build muscle potentially. Too much surplus and not enough training and you build a house with soft muddy bricks. What i'm finding to be a ridiculously successful bulking training mechanism is GVT (German Volume Training) as taught by Charles Poliquin

Interesting. DO you follow the 10x10 rep scheme, with one exercise per bodypart?

 

[HITscientist]

High Intensity Training (H.I.T) !!!!

 

[RenegadeRows]

High Intensity Training (H.I.T) !!!!

The HIT workouts i've done are good. I have learned from them.

Mentzer was a little out there, but I like Dardens book, it made for a good read.

Although the book I've learned from the most has been Rippetoe's starting strength. A great read!

 

[B5150]

What i'm finding to be a ridiculously successful bulking training mechanism is GVT (German Volume Training)

It is a huge nutrient partioner and a great training method for being used when you employ agents that are anabolic.

 

[RenegadeRows]

It is a huge nutrient partioner and a great training method for being used when you employ agents that are anabolic.

I agree. Isn't that what most of the pros used back in the day??? Long, tiring volume sets + anabolics

 

[SteelEntity]

HIT on paper looks great but achieving sufficient muscle over load with that type of training is far off imo. I did it for 4 weeks and hated it. Mentzer was one smart dude, but his studies show some major flaws. I do love how he emphasizes intensity being the key to success.

I am on a cycle right now and am using Max-OT, I just increase the sets a little since the gear allows for more volume. I keep the reps low 4-8. I feel if you can do more then 8 reps for most lifts you are wasting your time.

I have experience with german volume training and found it just takes to long. Sacrificing weight for reps makes little sense in my mind. Heavy weights causes overload = muscle and strength gains. Lifting at maximum intensity for 10 sets is nearly impossible. Additionally your body is in prime state to lift for about 40 min.

I feel working out is immensely over complicated. All muscle building routines ultimately end with one objective in mind, stimulating muscle fibers, causing growth and strength.

 

[EasyEJL]

Interesting. DO you follow the 10x10 rep scheme, with one exercise per bodypart?

10x10 with supersets you mean. Hideous workout the first week but effective.

http://www.strengthcats.com/CP-GVT.html

 

[EasyEJL]

It is a huge nutrient partioner and a great training method for being used when you employ agents that are anabolic.

Well, what i'm taking is the 30-35g of fish oil, neovar, incarnate + leviathan, plus additional creatine and standard supplemet stuff. Nothing exotic. I'm doing the 30 days of this, then cutting for the last half of the PAL transformation content, then GVT again while on cycle

 

[BullzEye]

Are you serious?? Eating well above your caloric maintainence is the secret to gaining mass?1?!1!

Its a f###ing revalation!!!

 

[SteelEntity]

GVT makes no sense to me. If someone wants to shed some light on it then be my guest.

 

[dark phoenix]

thanks for making this thread
as a board newbie there's a few terms that I need to do a search on to fully understand, but I think overall you just saved me a minimum of $100+ bucks I'd have wasted on supplements I really don't need at the local GNC.............

Few things though:
I can't degrade myself enough to run to the dollar value menu at McD's and order a few 'whatever' sandwiches to bulk up is there something else that's affordable that can be substituted for that?

 

[SteelEntity]

cottage cheese is cheap and one of the best things you can eat.
15g protein
1g fat per 1/2 cup serving
100cals

 

[RenegadeRows]

thanks for making this thread
as a board newbie there's a few terms that I need to do a search on to fully understand, but I think overall you just saved me a minimum of $100+ bucks I'd have wasted on supplements I really don't need at the local GNC.............

Few things though:
I can't degrade myself enough to run to the dollar value menu at McD's and order a few 'whatever' sandwiches to bulk up is there something else that's affordable that can be substituted for that?

I think I stressed the 'fast food' thing too much. What I'm saying is, eating is the key to growth.

Go to your supermarket and buy chicken, tortilla shells, and whatever else you want to put on them! A favorite of mine.

 

[EasyEJL]

GVT makes no sense to me. If someone wants to shed some light on it then be my guest.

Its just another way to reach extreme hypertrophy, plus when doing compound exersizes make sure all the different muscles used are wiped out too. Theres also somethign about lactic acid formation. Plus its "safer" and easier on joints as you are using a lighter weight.

 

[SteelEntity]

But light weight doesn't promote muscle overload. I'm going to go read about it a bit.

 

[B5150]

But TUT does.

 

[RenegadeRows]

But TUT does.

True.

 

[HITscientist]

Steel Entity,

Just for the sake of some good conversation can you please elaborate on why you think HIT is "far off"? What are some of the flaws you were referring to?

 

[EasyEJL]

But TUT does.

And a gvt session ends up being a total of 26 sets of 10-15 reps/set, takes me over 1 1/2 hrs to finish. So a lot of damn time under tension Its specific use was as a mass gainer by the german olympic team in theory.

 

[kw1k]

There really is no need to put nutritionally poor food into you body to bulk up. Even for hard gainers. Those who chose to eat at McD's and the like to get there calories are sacrificing nutrition for calories. Not to mention those calories are from fats, bad fats. If you need to eat garbage to get calories then you really need to consider you lack of knowledge in nutrition.

For thos who eat ther vegetables 3-5x a day like they should can easily add hundreds of calories to their diets. Just by adding one tablespoon of XVOO to each of those vegatable containing meals you 675 calories. If you chose to use two tablespoons that would be 1350 calories. On a 4000 calorie diet that equates to a 33% fat macro. Not to mention the added health benefits from the added oil.

Oils are not supplements they are staples. Eating very clean for a diet or a bulk is simple. All the foods that I eat are clean meats, vegetables and oats. The only thing that changes from cutting to bulking is the total calories and a reduction or increase in carbohydrates.

It is rather simple if you know what you are doing.

agree. However, what about for people whos metabolic rate is fast enough to process the dirty foods?

 

[EasyEJL]

agree. However, what about for people whos metabolic rate is fast enough to process the dirty foods?

Well, that part isn't about rate, its about saturated fats, sodium, etc. Figure a big mac (540), large fries (570) and coke (310) has 1410 calories, with 59 g of fat, and 16 of it saturated.

so macro wise, that is over 40% of calories from fat. You are only getting 31g of protein out of that, and around 188g of carbs with almost all of that being simple carbs.

Hitting 1410 cals cleanly would mean an 8oz piece of salmon, 2 8oz pieces of chicken breast, 2 cups of whole wheat pasta, 2 cups of vegetable of choice, 2 bannans and a grapefruit and a bit of extra virgin olive oil

high metabolic rates burns the calories the same, but in scenario 2 it would cost you 3x as much $ to eat the meal, but WAY better for lean muscle building. The problem is the $ part, its hard for a lot of people to spend $15-20 a meal every meal of the day

 

[kw1k]

Well, that part isn't about rate, its about saturated fats, sodium, etc. Figure a big mac (540), large fries (570) and coke (310) has 1410 calories, with 59 g of fat, and 16 of it saturated.

so macro wise, that is over 40% of calories from fat. You are only getting 31g of protein out of that, and around 188g of carbs with almost all of that being simple carbs.

Hitting 1410 cals cleanly would mean an 8oz piece of salmon, 2 8oz pieces of chicken breast, 2 cups of whole wheat pasta, 2 cups of vegetable of choice, 2 bannans and a grapefruit and a bit of extra virgin olive oil

high metabolic rates burns the calories the same, but in scenario 2 it would cost you 3x as much $ to eat the meal, but WAY better for lean muscle building. The problem is the $ part, its hard for a lot of people to spend $15-20 a meal every meal of the day

Agree. It is very expensive, and if i could afford that route i would. but usually i take the 1st scenario if i need quick calories; a double cheese burger from McDonald does the trick for me: 350 calories , 23 grams of fat 220 calories from fat 25 grams of protein , 34 grams of carbs, and 7 grams of sugar.

Not greatest, but hey bulking gets expensive.

 

[SteelEntity]

Steel Entity,

Just for the sake of some good conversation can you please elaborate on why you think HIT is "far off"? What are some of the flaws you were referring to?

BB.com has some great articles on HIT, it's pros and cons. Just go search for them on the site. I'll put some links up at a later time. Obviously the people who wrote them are not 100% correct, but neither is Mentzer and his approach.

HIT just isn't for me. All programs ultimately strive to achieve the common goal of building muscle, there are numerous ways to go about this and everyone is different.