Bulking on Cycle?
- 05-10-2006, 04:57 PM
- 05-10-2006, 05:45 PM
- 05-10-2006, 07:48 PM
Im going to disagree with Mullet and say that you can (or at least you probably should be able to). Just have to be observant obviously. People worry about overtraining all the time.... but you have to push it to make gains. Obviously if you feel like crap tone it down a little bit. And of course you should switch up your workouts every so often as in volume/intensity. Another thing is that you want to definitely work your way up to a capacity that will allow such a workload. I am going off of personal experience as well as many others. I have been lifting for the majority of my life and have found that this works. Just my 2 cents. Obviously it might work differently for Mullet... and you might find that as well. But dont knock it till you try it!
05-10-2006, 10:40 PM
05-10-2006, 10:40 PM
Bad advice^^^^^Originally Posted by thedon3534
Edit: OK...Not really bad advice....just not really applicable to most people with average genetics.
05-10-2006, 10:44 PM
thedon may have excellent genetics, but I assure you, if he is in fact being straight with us (and no, I'm not calling you a liar...please don't think that I am) He is the exception and not the rule....MOST people, regardless of the quality of their diet Can not train like that without quickly becoming counterproductive....Period.
05-10-2006, 11:13 PM
ok... we can agree to disagree... But how can you say that you did biceps on monday and not again on thursday? I believe I have some exceptional genetics but being in athletics all of my life including NCAA (Now) I have observed that the majority of people would be able to train a body part twice a week.. Maybe really hard one day and lighter the next time. And I am not saying this would work for the older population but for guys in their prime with a little experience yes. If you have never done it... then how would you know? Most people will probably never reach their workload capacity because they have never worked their asses of physically and dont know where their potential lies.
05-11-2006, 12:57 AM
Actually, you just agreed to agree with me .....That is exactly the point I made was that you have "exceptional genetics"Originally Posted by thedon3534
1. Being an exception; uncommon
2.Well above average; extraordinary
3. Deviating widely from the norm, as of physical or mental ability
If we are to take stock in the accepted definition of the word then you are suggesting to a person who, the odds tell us is likely: COMMON (see #1) or AVERAGE (see #2) or NORMAL (see #3), a routine that is only suitable for the EXCEPTIONAL or EXTRAORDINARY.....However, you are 22 years old...that is (as you hinted at earlier) a factor as well.
I don't entirely disagree with you and am certainly not actively trying to be argumentative
Hopefully I am mistaken, but that last post sounded a bit like you were suggesting that anyone that doesn't train like you do: "Most people will probably never reach their workload capacity because they have never worked their asses of physically and dont know where their potential lies."
is lacking in ability or commitment. If so, you are ignorant..Am I mistaken? If so I apologize.
At any rate, You're 22 years old you'll forgive me if "I have been working out most of my life" doesn't hold a lot of water with me...I have tried working out twice a week and it didn't work for me...alas, I was not blessed with "exceptional" genetics.
Oh, and I don't train biceps Monday or Thursday (not really sure where you were going with that??)......
Bottom line is that for 99% of the population: if you can work a muscle group more than once a week....you didn't do it right in the first place
05-11-2006, 01:13 AM
I think you are pretty off base here man, no offense. My current program works out that I hit every muscle thee times in 11 days. However, it is pretty low volume only one exercise, three sets per muscle group, per workout, hitting Mon/Wed/Fri..This guy is talking about a five day split, with every muscle group being hit twice, every week with (I'm guessing) mid/high volume..AAS or not that is overtraining for 99% of the individuals on the face of this planet. Not only, though more likely, in terms of muscle groups, but most definitely in terms of CNS..So I reiterate, unless you are a genetic jackpot, please DO NOT work each muscle group 2x a week unless you would like to make no progressOriginally Posted by thedon3534
05-11-2006, 01:14 AM
And, I think it's more prevalent that people do not realize their potential because they over train, not under train
05-11-2006, 01:18 AM
Agreed^^^^^^Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
You have a gift for brevity....You just said in one sentence what it took me 4 paragraphs to say....Maybe I should persue a career as a novelist.
05-11-2006, 01:18 AM
05-11-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by myfathersboy
As you said MOST people can not train like that without quickly becoming counterproductive. IMO works for me but might not for others. It is ok to work two bodyparts a week while on s-drol since MOST s-drol cycles are 3 weeks and I think that is a short enough time to not become counterproductive. The s-drol not only aids in strength gains but recovery as well. He might not want to go heavy both days what I do while "on" is have one heavy day and one light day the light day focusing on more isolation exercises and body exercises flys, concentration curls dips pullups etc. Then when I am "off" i go back to my normal routine.
05-11-2006, 10:17 AM
I guess I was trying to say what mixedup said... in that... it wouldnt hurt to do it for a short duration while "on". I just think some people sell themselves short... and have seen many people with not so good genetics benefit too. I am a little confused why this is in the nutrition category as well..... hah
05-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by thedon3534
i agree... i do hit each muscles twice a week some times even on a "off" period. It seems to work great for me. i have done once a week for each muscle as well. i like them both, and both work. but dont not do it until you have tried it and find that it does not work for you. i do not have great genetics. i have average. i can put weight on very easy. BUT it is not always muscle. i can put fat like its my job even when eating pretty clean.
the original post i think 2 days each muscle except legs would be good. if one day is hard and the other is light. for example: monday heavy chest light sholulders and tri's. thursday light chest heavy shoulders and tri's. i have seen many people spilt it up that way and it work great for them jmo.
05-11-2006, 11:23 AM
I do a PL routine where my muscles are getting hit multiple times a week. It concentrates on a heavy light and medium day though. So volume and intensity varies. It worked really well for me on an SD cycle though. I can go hard on a program like this for about 8 weeks and then its time to take a week off. This has worked for me and I know I do not have exceptional genetics though I would say I am more athletically inclined than others. I guess you can take this for what its worth
05-11-2006, 01:47 PM
i agree. when you feel like its time to switch then switch. and take it easier to let your body keep building.Originally Posted by peterson24
05-16-2006, 05:47 PM
Training twice a week is more than ok..
It all comes down to the intensity of each session. You cannot annihilate your muscle hitting failure every set/forcing reps,etc. and expect to be able to hit it again later in the week with equal intensity.. The trick is to stop 1-2 reps shy of failure, keep strict form, and eat plenty of food.. Also, twice a week training is generally training with an upper/lower split, cutting the total volume in half for each body part and dispersing it equally into both upper/lower days.. Twice a week training is actually quite common, but proper periodization and deloading must be incorporated.
Check out these links for more info:
The key is not hitting failure to ensure CNS burnout doesn't occur. This type of training works great for size, with strength coming in as secondary. IT has been proven that you don't need to demolish a muscle group during any one workout to trigger hypertrophy, so hitting it twice/week with reduced intensity (stopping shy of failure) will ensure that you gain optimally. This method has been working wonders for many (including myself) and can be used by anyone. Remember to start out low on the volume to gauge your personal recovery abilities and increase your workload as you deem fit (based on your recovery). LISTEN to your body as well, and when you start to feel fatigued and tired (i/e close to overreaching), deload for a week. Deloading is simply cutting your workload down drastically and allowing your body/CNS to catch up a bit and rest.
05-16-2006, 05:54 PM
05-16-2006, 08:52 PM
Kay, training with a heavy/light day is fine. But that IS NOT what the original post was implying. The original post was implying, same intensity, same volume, twice a week, which is completely ridiculous. A low volume system with two days, one being heavy, one being light is plausible, just not for me.
05-16-2006, 09:17 PM
after reading the original post it looks like it was left open for suggestions...ahh well. I think he gets the jist now.
05-16-2006, 10:30 PM
I have lifted since I was way young, and I never knew that you were susposed to only train one muscle once to maybe twice a week. I just never felt like I was getting anywhere with that. I understand that a muscle needs to repair itself and all, but Man that seems like alot of wasted time. But, I understand what you are all talking about, and I have been reading alot of post about this to. I used to train lets say.. My whole upper body at least 4 to 5 times a week.
Maybe this is why my gain have never been that great.
So, let me see if I understand correctly. While on a 3 week cycle of SD, your only gonna train your chest 3 times ? Maybe six in a three week cycle ? And this will produce results ?
Please forgive me, Like I said, I am new to all this training once to maybe twice a week thing.
It may seem like a dumb question to you, but I have to ask.
Thanks for any advice on this. I will continue to read, and hopefully understand this.
05-16-2006, 11:28 PM
3 to 6 times yes.... and it will produce results. But youre training other things too! It's not like after the 3 weeks is up you wont see anymore results either.... it will just give you a boost for the time being.
05-17-2006, 07:01 AM
Ok, Works for me. I just felt that if I were on cycle or even if I was not on cycle that I should be training alomst everyday.
But like i said, I have learned through reading on here that I have been wrong for many yrs. Thanks for your advice.
05-17-2006, 09:24 AM
you can train almost everyday... just not the same muscles. maybe 5 times a week though splitting your body up on different days.
05-17-2006, 11:02 AM
Yeah, I understand that now.. But like I said.. before, I felt that I needed to train each muscle 4 to 5 times a week. But Now I have read and am learning .. Thank you for your help.
05-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Mullet, I like a lot of your posts, but re-read this one. Ridiculous? It is completely dependant on the person, the intensity, and volume. HST hits every muscle 3 times a week with same intensity, volume ect. Sure, you aren't going to be able to do high volume training, or something such as HIT twice a week, but to just say it's ridiculous is short-sighted.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
To the OP> You have to know your body. I suggest trying a lot of different programs. Find the ones you not only enjoy, but the ones that give you the progress you desire.
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
Yeah, I was jumping the gun a little bit that day. I just see to many people over-using their body on AAS because they think it is a magic bean. So to the poster, if you can pull off that same kind of intensity and volume with each muscle group twice a week then that is what you should do. Just make sure to get the most effective rest/work ratio for your body
05-18-2006, 05:29 PM
05-18-2006, 05:39 PM
That's true, but I still believe that MOST people are not going to be able to do that kind of training without eventually overtraining.Originally Posted by doggzj
Plus, bottom line is that on cycle is not really the time to experiment with new training styles...Any new regimine is going to require a period of adjustment to get 'dialed in'...on cycle is just not the ideal time for this kind of experimentation because:
A. You force yourself to use an unfamiliar protocol.
B. It's difficult to quantify results when you change more than one thing at a time.
I'm not saying that training this way is not viable...I'm merely suggesting that it's probably not viable for most people, and certainly not during a cycle.
05-18-2006, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=myfathersboy]That's true, but I still believe that MOST people are not going to be able to do that kind of training without eventually overtraining.
Yeah I can understand eventually overtraining for most but just for the short duration of 3 weeks with a little priming beforehand should work well. I guess we could go on and on.. haha
05-18-2006, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=thedon3534]It saddens me that that's all you were able to gain from my last post....Originally Posted by myfathersboy
05-18-2006, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=myfathersboy]Not to be rude.... but I didnt need to gain anything from your post.. All I was doing was continuing a discussion we had earlier. I looked at all of your points and YES if you don't have experience with lifting then maybe it is not necessarily smart to change your routine drastically. But as I said before, you should push it on a cycle especially if it is short (around 4 weeks). That could mean adding more sets or hitting the muscle more frequently (more than once a week) because of added recovery. If I didn't know any better I would think that you are becoming somewhat condescending.Originally Posted by thedon3534
05-18-2006, 08:10 PM
[QUOTE=thedon3534]i am going to have to agree with this 100%. just came of a cycle and hit every muscle twice a week. one day high intensity other day low. i am onmy pct right now and i feel fin. strength still fine and body is feeling fine. i have cut back the volume a large amount to compensate for the short over load and it seems to be working perfectly.Originally Posted by myfathersboy
05-18-2006, 10:07 PM
Yea, definitaly don't do something new during a cycle. Not good to have multiple variables.Originally Posted by myfathersboy
On a side note, I'm a genetic freak apparently
05-18-2006, 10:17 PM
[QUOTE=thedon3534]Not to be rude...But obviously you did...Originally Posted by myfathersboy
But hey....have it your way lil fella....
I apologize if I came off as condescending (up until this post...just so you have reference point...second sentence=condescending...sorry , I just couldn't resist). And not to put too fine a point on it but...If I didnt know any better I would think that you were suggesting that anybody whose opinion conflicts with yours 'lacks experience'...
The original poster asked a question, and I gave an opinion based on the experiences of myself and most of the people I have spoken to....Obviously, based on the replys in this post, People who can (or believe they can) train in this way are more common than I believed, although I will continue to believe, until I see evidence to the contrary, that most still attain better results by training in a more 'traditional' way.
You train your way I'll train mine..I just don't think it's a good idea to suggest this way of thinking to a new trainee.
On the bright side (or maybe not) the original poster seems to have lost interest in this thread anyway, so it's all academic at this point
05-18-2006, 11:58 PM
Allright... I just didn't want it to be absolute for the guy NOT to possibly lift a muscle group 2x/week. Like you said... you'll lift your way I will lift mine, we should make sure the guy sees there are different ways to lift. As for being a lil fella... I am 6 foot 2 and 260 lbs. 10-12% bf (not saying that equals knowledge)
05-19-2006, 12:34 AM
Yeah, I was kidding about the lil fella thing....not sure if you caught that ....hell Don, We're damn near the same size!!! I'm 6'4" and 306 and....ummmmm, well.....body fat is about (looks at the ground, kicks the dirt off his shoes and blushes) 18-20%....finishing up a cycle/bulk right now....cutting after PCT in about 6 weeks....Tired of being fat, but definately gonna miss the additional freedom with my diet....I'm your classic bulking fatty...I just always seem to put on a little too much body fat during bulking...ahhh well, seems to work for me.... I'll be shooting for about 260Originally Posted by thedon3534
You're right about that though, one should not rule out any options until they are given a chance, sorry if my last post came off as being harsh....I'm a cranky little b1tch right now
05-19-2006, 08:00 AM
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