Critique It: Lean Bulk Diet Advice for 33yo Ecto w/Tendency for Gut

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    Critique It: Lean Bulk Diet Advice for 33yo Ecto w/Tendency for Gut


    First, the background! Skip this if you don't care but I figure some people might ask.

    Key Stats:
    Long-limbed ectomorph (35” sleeve), 6’0, currently 185 lbs, ~10%bf (caliper & impedance roughly agree), 33 years young. BP/SQ/DL (not 1RM, no clue what that is) is about 1, 1.5, and 2 times bodyweight, respectively.

    Physique Goals:
    Slowly add quality lean muscle mass that will stick. Emphasis on functional strength (like to play and lack the genetics to be a bodybuilder or strength athlete); Not get fat.

    Problems:
    Difficulty maintaining excess muscle mass; Extra calories go right to the waistline/handles though – Now that I’m older, I really have to be pushing 8% to look thin around the middle. Other than that, it’s pretty easy for me to stay around 10% year-round. I can lean out relatively easy (but not as easy as I used to) with regular cardio, but unfortunately will drop muscle mass just as quickly.

    Training Experience:
    Have been training many years, am a martial arts blackbelt, somewhat lapsed these days, but have been getting more into the weights in the last few years. I cut structured cardio about a year ago in hopes of increasing size (still do some occasional HIIT), but am gradually increasing recreational cardio this time of year anyway (bike/swim/surf).

    Workout:
    2-Way Split, 3x/week (A: Deads, HS Incline Press, Weighted chins, bonus exercise [shoulders or triceps] B: BB Front Squat, Hams, Leg Press, Biceps, bonus exercise [usually abs]). I do minimal cardio at the moment, but will do 2-3 days/week of play throughout the summer and fall.

    Supplementation:
    Have also tried “everything” at one point or another. Little has justified the financial cost and forgone alternatives. At this very second I use bulk CEE, and am also trying out Diesel Test + ActivaTe. I find ActivaTe gives me a temporary libido boost, but I wouldn’t say I’ve gotten any bigger on it. I have a little No-Xplode left which I am using pre-workout but it’s almost gone. Oh yeah, GABA and Arginine at bedtime.

    Recent Diet Experience:

    Ran a brief ketogenic cutter recently to look good for vacation, dropped from north of 190 to 180-ish in about 2 weeks. I’ve clawed a few pounds back in the last month or so though.

    Presumed Diet Goals:
    I’ve sorta naturally been on a low-carb diet for a long time now and would like see what my results are like on more of a 20f/40c/40p diet. (Having I been short-changing growth? Have I been eating too much fat for a non-keto diet? Will 20/40/40 result in better mood, energy, etc?.)

    Anyway, if I’m crazy to be thinking about this given my physique goals, please chime in, I’m keeping an open mind.
    Last edited by undecipherable; 05-02-2006 at 05:36 PM.

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    Anyway, hereís a ďtypicalĒ rest and workout day on the diet Iím planning, itís fairly close to how Iíve eaten over the last few days. Again, Iím 185, 10% bf, and Iím getting around 3100 kCals on rest days and 4300 on workout days.

    [working on formatting this better]

    NEW/PLANNED 20/40/40-ish

    NON-WORKOUT DAY
    kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    3263 70 296 309
    19% 36% 38%

    WORKOUT NUTRITION
    kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    1315 12 165 120
    8% 50% 37%

    WORKOUT DAY TOTAL

    kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    4333 80 434 401
    17% 40% 37%

    Meal 1: Breakfast Shake kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    2 scoop ON Whey (Vanilla) 240 2 6 48
    0.50 cup Steel Cut Oats 300 4 52 8
    1.00 tbps Almond Butter 101 9 3 2
    1.00 cup Skim Milk 86 0 12 8
    2.00 tbps Plain Nonfat Yogurt 17 0 2 2
    1.00 Small Banana 93 0 24 1
    3.00 Medium Strawberries 11 0 3 0
    1.00 caps Concentrated Fish Oil 10 1 0 0
    1.00 caps Scivation Sesamin 9 1 0 0
    Daily Vitamins 0 0 0 0
    Total 867 17 102 69
    Macros 18% 47% 32%


    Meal 2: 2nd Breakfast kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    1 Myoplex Carbsense RTD 150 4 5 25
    1 Apple 81 0 21 0
    Total 231 4 26 25
    Macros 24% 13% 67%


    Meal 3: Lunch kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    6 oz Smoked Turkey Breast 228 0 0 48
    1 Whole Wheat Roll 250 4 48 8
    1 cup Lettuce 8 0 1 1
    2 slice Tomato 8 0 2 0
    2 spears Dill Pickle 11 0 2 0
    1 cup Skim Milk 86 0 12 8
    1 Medium Pear 98 1 25 1
    1.00 caps Concentrated Fish Oil 10 1 0 0
    1.00 caps Scivation Sesamin 9 1 0 0
    Total 708 7 90 66
    Macros 9% 51% 37%


    Meal 4: Afternoon Snack kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    1 cup Lowfat Cottage Cheese 164 2 6 28
    Macros 11% 15% 68%

    90 Minutes Pre-Workout Shake kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    2 scoop ON Whey (Vanilla) 240 2 6 48
    0.50 cup Steel Cut Oats 3 4 52 8
    1.00 cup Skim Milk 86 0 12 8
    Total 626 6 70 64
    Macros 9% 45% 41%


    45 Minutes Pre-Workout kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    2 scoop No X-Plode 72 0 18 0
    Macros 0% 100% 0%

    During Workout
    Maybe BCAAs?

    Post-Workout Shake kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    2 scoop ON Whey (Vanilla) 240 2 6 48
    0.25 cup Steel Cut Oats 300 4 52 8
    2.00 tbsps Dextrose 77 0 19 0
    Total 617 6 77 56
    Macros 9% 50% 36%


    Meal 5: Evening Snack (Non-workout Only)kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    1 cup Lowfat Cottage Cheese 164 2 6 28
    Macros 11% 15% 68%

    Meal 6: Dinner kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    8 oz Wild Alaskan Salmon 322 14 0 45
    1 pat Butter 36 4 0 0
    0.5 cup Nonfat Yogurt w/Dill 68 0 9 7
    0.5 cup Green Peas 59 0 10 4
    0.25 cup Quinoa 159 2 29 6
    1.00 caps Concentrated Fish Oil 10 1 0 0
    1.00 caps Scivation Sesamin 9 1 0 0
    2 glasses Red Wine 148 0 4 0
    1 piece 70% Dark Chocolate 53 5 5 1
    Total 864 27 57 63
    Macros 28% 26% 29%


    Meal 7: Pre-Sleep Snack
    1 tbsps Almond Butter 101 9 3 2
    1 cup Lowfat Cottage Cheese 164 2 6 28
    Total 265 11 9 30
    Macros 37% 14% 45%
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by undecipherable; 05-02-2006 at 05:35 PM.
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    Whats you workout? You may still be doing too much. There is a guy that posted in the pics section that did twice a week workouts, doing heavy compound movements and he was very ecto. His end result was a 40lbs increase in weight.
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    As an Ecto also, I find lean bulking entails eating far more then an endo/meso would for their lean bulk. I think you could up your calories and get away with it, keeping with the same ratio you have set up. Personally, I would take the shakes out of your diet, if convenient. However, that is just my take, I don't like shakes, b/c although they may have the same macro nutritional value as real food, they are already chum and seem to digest faster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    As an Ecto also, I find lean bulking entails eating far more then an endo/meso would for their lean bulk. I think you could up your calories and get away with it, keeping with the same ratio you have set up. Personally, I would take the shakes out of your diet, if convenient. However, that is just my take, I don't like shakes, b/c although they may have the same macro nutritional value as real food, they are already chum and seem to digest faster.
    Yeah, there's a great couple of posts by bobo that explains the whole foods vs whey thing...I wish I could find them for you...I try to keep them for pre and post and the rare emergency...

    you should try maybe eating eggs and/or egg whites at breakfast instead of the whey...
    Love the addition of quinoa...that stuff is amazing, amaranth is awesome too if you can find it...
    Maybe replace the butter at dinner with some extra virgin olive oil???
    Couple of scoops of casien at bed time???

    Not sure how I feel about the chocolate and red wine....I guess you can't take all of the joy out of life, huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    Whats you workout? You may still be doing too much. There is a guy that posted in the pics section that did twice a week workouts, doing heavy compound movements and he was very ecto. His end result was a 40lbs increase in weight.
    Sunday or Monday: Workout A (4 Excercises)
    Chest, Back Width, Back Thickness, Bonus

    Wednesday: Workout B (5 Excercises)
    Quads, Hams, Glutes, Biceps, Bonus

    Friday or Saturday: Workout A

    So I'm in the gym 3/days a week and resting 2 days between workouts. Each workout is repated every 5 days.

    Here are some examples with recent values. Not PRs, but I would call these reasonably heavy for me right now. I'm resting 90-120 seconds between sets.

    Workout A Example

    1. Chest: Hammer ISO Incline Press
    2 sets of 90x20 warmup
    then explosive concentric, 5 secs eccentric
    160x8
    180x5
    200x2
    + drop

    Sometimes I do DBs instead, but I have trouble kicking up more than 75lb dumbs to incline and 90 to flat w/o a spotter

    2. Back Width: Superset above Incline Press with (un)weighted Chinups or Pullups
    10,8,6
    0,25,45 lbs if I'm feeling ambitous

    3. Back Thickness: Deadlift (or Trap Bar Deadlift) w/Shrug
    225x10 (warmup)
    275x7
    315x4
    335x2

    4. Bonus: Could be Pec Dec, Rear Delts, Lateral Raise, or Triceps but I only pick one (OK, sometimes I sneak 2)

    Workout B Example

    1. Quads: BB Front Squat w/Calf Raise
    2 sets of warmups
    135x10
    185x6
    205x3

    2. Hams: Plate Loaded Kneeling Leg Curl (I like ISO due to ancient hamstring injury, otherwise the uninjured one gets much stronger than the other)
    90x10
    110x5
    150x2

    3. Compound Legs/Glutes: Leg Press
    360x10
    410x5
    450x3

    Sometimes instead of the above 1,2,3, I'll just do the front squats and then do BB Back Squats:
    135x10 warmup
    225x8
    245x6
    265x3

    4. Biceps: Preacher Curl or Seated Incline

    5. Bonus: (Almost always abdominals)
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    Quote Originally Posted by myfathersboy
    you should try maybe eating eggs and/or egg whites at breakfast instead of the whey...
    Well I think this here is more typical of my breakfast for the past six months or so, but with this new diet I was trying to get carbs up to 40% territory (especially in the AM) since this had virtually none.

    Meal 1: Egg White Omelete Cals gFat gCarb gProt
    0.67 cup Egg Whites 89 0 0 18
    1.50 oz Swiss Cheese 160 12 1 12
    4.00 oz Smoked Ham 178 6 0 28
    1.00 Extra Large Egg 86 6 1 7
    2.00 caps GNC Concentrate Fish Body Oils 20 2 0 0
    2.00 caps Scivation Sesamin 18 2 0 0
    2.00 tsps Grainy Spicy Mustard 3.3 0.16 0.4 0.2
    Daily Vitamins 0 0 0 0
    554.3 28.16 2.4 65.2
    46% 2% 47%



    Meal 2: 2nd Breakfast kCals gFat gCarb gProt
    1 cup Lowfat Cottage Cheese 164 2 6 28
    11% 15% 68%

    Maybe I could make a smaller omelette and eat a bowl of oatmeal on the side or something? Can you cook that stuff in advance? Steel cut may take too long in the morning!

    Love the addition of quinoa...that stuff is amazing
    Agree totally, I love that stuff instead of rice, cous cous, or the like. I was skeptical at first (strange food, funny name, sold at the natural foods place), but now I'm sold on it. Goes great with a buffalo New York strip too. I like to make mine with chicken broth and some wild mushrooms.
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    Whole wheat bagel maybe???
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    For a great snack that easily made, has low GI carbs, EFA's and a buttload of protein do this..

    1 can tuna
    1 apple (cored) w/1 tbsp Natty PB
    2 cups milk

    It's great man, when I'm pressed for time, and need to take something to school, or work, I do that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    As an Ecto also, I find lean bulking entails eating far more then an endo/meso would for their lean bulk. I think you could up your calories and get away with it, keeping with the same ratio you have set up. Personally, I would take the shakes out of your diet, if convenient. However, that is just my take, I don't like shakes, b/c although they may have the same macro nutritional value as real food, they are already chum and seem to digest faster.
    Mulletsolidier -- Out of curiosity, what's your weight and maintenance kCals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by undecipherable
    Sunday or Monday: Workout A (4 Excercises)
    Chest, Back Width, Back Thickness, Bonus

    Wednesday: Workout B (5 Excercises)
    Quads, Hams, Glutes, Biceps, Bonus

    Friday or Saturday: Workout A

    So I'm in the gym 3/days a week and resting 2 days between workouts. Each workout is repated every 5 days.

    Here are some examples with recent values. Not PRs, but I would call these reasonably heavy for me right now. I'm resting 90-120 seconds between sets.

    Workout A Example

    1. Chest: Hammer ISO Incline Press
    2 sets of 90x20 warmup
    then explosive concentric, 5 secs eccentric
    160x8
    180x5
    200x2
    + drop

    Sometimes I do DBs instead, but I have trouble kicking up more than 75lb dumbs to incline and 90 to flat w/o a spotter

    2. Back Width: Superset above Incline Press with (un)weighted Chinups or Pullups
    10,8,6
    0,25,45 lbs if I'm feeling ambitous

    3. Back Thickness: Deadlift (or Trap Bar Deadlift) w/Shrug
    225x10 (warmup)
    275x7
    315x4
    335x2

    4. Bonus: Could be Pec Dec, Rear Delts, Lateral Raise, or Triceps but I only pick one (OK, sometimes I sneak 2)

    Workout B Example

    1. Quads: BB Front Squat w/Calf Raise
    2 sets of warmups
    135x10
    185x6
    205x3

    2. Hams: Plate Loaded Kneeling Leg Curl (I like ISO due to ancient hamstring injury, otherwise the uninjured one gets much stronger than the other)
    90x10
    110x5
    150x2

    3. Compound Legs/Glutes: Leg Press
    360x10
    410x5
    450x3

    Sometimes instead of the above 1,2,3, I'll just do the front squats and then do BB Back Squats:
    135x10 warmup
    225x8
    245x6
    265x3

    4. Biceps: Preacher Curl or Seated Incline

    5. Bonus: (Almost always abdominals)
    You have some decent strength for you frame there man. But you may want to drop the weight and increase the reps, say 8-10
    Also try throwing an extra day of rest in between each work out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    You have some decent strength for you frame there man. But you may want to drop the weight and increase the reps, say 8-10
    Also try throwing an extra day of rest in between each work out.
    Exactly...Except I would say maybe 6-8....your last set @ 2-3 reps really isn't conducive to your goals right now, and anything over 10 is essentially a warm-up and should not be counted as a work set (IMO).......
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    Quote Originally Posted by undecipherable
    Mulletsolidier -- Out of curiosity, what's your weight and maintenance kCals?
    Well, right now I am bulking, sitting around 171lbs @ 10-11 and I'm taking in 4000 at 45/35/20 Pro/Carb/Fat on non-workout days, and 4300 at 40/40/20 Pro/Carb/Fat for workout days...Maintenance I would probably say around 3100-3400, that sounds like an assload, I know..But my metabolism is notoriously fast, that's how I bulk and still stay @ 10-11...In my avy I am 160 and I was eating 3000kcals for maintenance.
  

  
 

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