Advice on bulk or cut at current stage

[JahCure]

Hey guys I'm looking for advice on whether to continue to bulk or transition into a mini cut.

Current stats:
30 y/o
182-184lbs
6'00 tall
Unknown bf%

End goal is to be 195 lbs 10% (eventually)

Currently eating at about +300 calorie surplus (~3700 cals) per day.

Feeling like I'm starting to look skinny-fat, as you can see in the photos below it's like I have fricken cellulite in my intercostal area! Wtf is that! I've never had that before which is why I'm looking for advice from some of the more experienced dieters. I have never actually ran a purposeful cut before so any input on what I should do at this stage would be awesome.

Thanks guys/girls

 

[john.patterson]

Looking solid dude. What are your current macros? Have you been gaining weight consistently and getting stronger (progressing with weights in the gym)? And what does your training look like?

If you're getting stronger and the scale is moving at a consistent pace, no more than 1-2 pounds per week, I would stick with lean bulking for now and keep on keeping on. A mini cut wouldn't be a bad idea, but if you're not stepping on the beach any time soon I wouldn't worry about holding a little extra body fat. But if you feel that you are gaining weight/fat quicker than you'd like, you might want to consider backing off the calorie intake a bit and focus on leaner, slower progress. Also, have you considered any type of carb or calorie cycling?

PS - I wish I had your maintenance cal. intake. I gain weight at 2800 calories/day lol.

 

[The Solution]

Personally keep gaining. You have a good lean appearance. Most people are their own worst critics. you have bicep veins showing, you have a good misection, and to be honest your not showing us the other 50% of your body (legs and back) two huge area's where males store a majority of their fat.

The skinny fat thing could be from a lack of muscle mass. being 6 foot you have a very large frame. I walk around almost your weight in my offseason (180's is usually my peak) in a 5'6 frame. So I feel like a fatass compared to you

I would keep riding it out if the scale is slowly moving up and you are seeing physical changes in the mirror and numbers going up in the gym. IF you are not seeing progress in the gym then there is a problem with 1) not eating enough 2) too much volume or 3) too much cardio (catabolic towards muscle growth)

and x2 on your caloric intake. Man I don't get above 2500ish in the offseason. 100% jelly, but not jelly of your grocery bill Keep the gain train rocking, if you take it smooth and steady you could easily hit 195 with some good solid mass on you before dieting it off.

Post up your training split, and also your current cardio protocol. Also if you have the time outline how you allocate your macros. This could be key for adding in more food but keeping you lean with your timing on workout days and non-workout days. Do you keep your kcals the same daily? or do you lower them on off days?

 

[JahCure]

Looking solid dude. What are your current macros? Have you been gaining weight consistently and getting stronger (progressing with weights in the gym)? And what does your training look like?

If you're getting stronger and the scale is moving at a consistent pace, no more than 1-2 pounds per week, I would stick with lean bulking for now and keep on keeping on. A mini cut wouldn't be a bad idea, but if you're not stepping on the beach any time soon I wouldn't worry about holding a little extra body fat. But if you feel that you are gaining weight/fat quicker than you'd like, you might want to consider backing off the calorie intake a bit and focus on leaner, slower progress. Also, have you considered any type of carb or calorie cycling?

PS - I wish I had your maintenance cal. intake. I gain weight at 2800 calories/day lol.

Thanks for the compliment brother. I haven't been very strict with counting macros, I just shoot for high protein moderate-low carb and high fat. With this I have been gaining weight consistently, but at a pretty slow rate. Weights have been progressing pretty solid.

Training is as follows (hypertrophy, concentration):

Mon- back/bicep/tricep
Tues- quad/chest/shoulder
Wed- back/bicep
Thurs- hamstring/lowback/chest/shoulder/tri
Fri,sat,sun- off (work 3 12 1/2 hr shifts)

Actually I have been considering carb cycling, I'm thinking about something along the lines of 10 days moderate carbs / 3 days no carbs cyclic, do you think that might be a good plan?

Lol yeah it is kindof nice with the higher maintenance cals, although it was a curse when I was younger it was much higher.

 

[JahCure]

Personally keep gaining. You have a good lean appearance. Most people are their own worst critics. you have bicep veins showing, you have a good misection, and to be honest your not showing us the other 50% of your body (legs and back) two huge area's where males store a majority of their fat.

The skinny fat thing could be from a lack of muscle mass. being 6 foot you have a very large frame. I walk around almost your weight in my offseason (180's is usually my peak) in a 5'6 frame. So I feel like a fatass compared to you

I would keep riding it out if the scale is slowly moving up and you are seeing physical changes in the mirror and numbers going up in the gym. IF you are not seeing progress in the gym then there is a problem with 1) not eating enough 2) too much volume or 3) too much cardio (catabolic towards muscle growth)

and x2 on your caloric intake. Man I don't get above 2500ish in the offseason. 100% jelly, but not jelly of your grocery bill Keep the gain train rocking, if you take it smooth and steady you could easily hit 195 with some good solid mass on you before dieting it off.

Post up your training split, and also your current cardio protocol. Also if you have the time outline how you allocate your macros. This could be key for adding in more food but keeping you lean with your timing on workout days and non-workout days. Do you keep your kcals the same daily? or do you lower them on off days?

Thanks a lot for the input solution, Good point I can throw some back/leg photos up tonight but be ready to view some extremely hairy quads!

I don't do any cardio( sometimes I'll sub interval sprints for my above listed Wednesday workout, so that shouldn't be having any negative effects.

I don't track my macro breakdown if you think this is most important and will have a large impact I might have to start doing this.

Also on non-workout days my calorie consumption is a little lower, at about maintenance.

 

[The Solution]

So 300 kcals lower on non training days thats fine.
How many sets are your workouts? How much volume are you doing?

I personally would not carb cycle to 0 carb or low carb days, just do something like below and keep it very simple.
Since your around 180 pounds .I would do something like this since your kcals are very high you will want protein a bit higher to make sure your getting adequate leucine and protein from whole food sources and not from the trace sources in your fats/carbs.
220-225g of protein
30-40% Fats
Rest Carbs

On non-training days drop 75g of carbs.
keep the cardio to 0, that way when you diet you can add cardio as a tool to expand calories and help with fatloss when you hit sticking points.

This is what ya need to keep the ball rolling. If your weight is moving "VERY SLOW" then i would not hesitate to bump kcals another 100-150 calories to both days.

 

[JahCure]

So 300 kcals lower on non training days thats fine.
How many sets are your workouts? How much volume are you doing?

I personally would not carb cycle to 0 carb or low carb days, just do something like below and keep it very simple.
Since your around 180 pounds .I would do something like this since your kcals are very high you will want protein a bit higher to make sure your getting adequate leucine and protein from whole food sources and not from the trace sources in your fats/carbs.
220-225g of protein
30-40% Fats
Rest Carbs

On non-training days drop 75g of carbs.
keep the cardio to 0, that way when you diet you can add cardio as a tool to expand calories and help with fatloss when you hit sticking points.

This is what ya need to keep the ball rolling. If your weight is moving "VERY SLOW" then i would not hesitate to bump kcals another 100-150 calories to both days.

For workout wise I just came off of a 4 week strength cycle where I was doing somewhere around 3sets of 5 for most lifts (except smaller body parts).

Currently an example of my quads/chest/shoulder day would look like the following (everything with high concentration for that particular muscle group):

Overhead squat:
3 sets of 6 @ 85lbs

Squat:
1 x 12 @ 155
1 x 12 @ 175
1 x 12 @ 185
1 x (amrap) 16 narrow stance @ 135

Leg press:
2 x 14 @ 180

DB flat bench:
1 x 12 @35
1 x 12 @45
2 x 12 @55

Cable fly:
2 x 14 @40

Seated pec fly:
1 x (amrap) 16 @65

(Shoulders I'm focusing on contraction on right llateral delt because my shoulder blade /lat is trying to do the work for it and it looks a little less developed than left lateral delt)

Lying cable lateral raise:
4 x 14 @15lbs

Standing DB lateral raise:
2 x 12 @10

Standing cable lateral raise:
2 x 12 @ 20

Here is a photo of my macros from my last meal log which doesn't vary too much day to day.

 

[JahCure]

Here are the photos of my back (please excuse the bodyhair, the wife is slacking on my manscaping lately) and the training wheels.

You guys have helped tremendously already and it is greatly appreciated. If I can ask one more favor of you guys could you estimate my body fat % ? I'd like to have a frame of reference for the future.

 

[JahCure]

Here are the photos of my back (please excuse the bodyhair, the wife is slacking on my manscaping lately) and the training wheels.

You guys have helped tremendously already and it is greatly appreciated. If I can ask one more favor of you guys could you estimate my body fat % ? I'd like to have a frame of reference for the future.

 

[The Solution]

Estimating bodyfat is like finding a needle in a haystack
Way too many variables to be 100% accurate. And to be honest the number means absolutely nothing.
When you see a competitior or athlete on stage does he know his BF%? prob not.. Does a guy doing a photoshoot know his BF% prob not..

You are lean , you got plenty of room on a BIG frame to add size. Keep adding the calories and keep growing.

What does a breakdown of your food look like on a day to day basis as far as meals go?
What does your pre/intra/post workout nutrition look like?

 

[Mowglisml]

Great advice from awesome users. Don't mind me. Just subbing for great info.

 

[john.patterson]

Thanks for the compliment brother. I haven't been very strict with counting macros, I just shoot for high protein moderate-low carb and high fat. With this I have been gaining weight consistently, but at a pretty slow rate. Weights have been progressing pretty solid.

Training is as follows (hypertrophy, concentration):

Mon- back/bicep/tricep
Tues- quad/chest/shoulder
Wed- back/bicep
Thurs- hamstring/lowback/chest/shoulder/tri
Fri,sat,sun- off (work 3 12 1/2 hr shifts)

Actually I have been considering carb cycling, I'm thinking about something along the lines of 10 days moderate carbs / 3 days no carbs cyclic, do you think that might be a good plan?

Lol yeah it is kindof nice with the higher maintenance cals, although it was a curse when I was younger it was much higher.

Your split looks good - Thursdays must be a long training session. You could try cycling carbs as you mentioned, but I usually like to vary carb intake on a weekly schedule. I've always found dropping carb intake on rest days to be helpful for staying leaner and not gaining excess body fat. I'm not sure what type of work you do, but it might make sense to do low carb days on your rest days, which would give you 3 low and 4 moderate/high days.

I would also recommend adding in a GDA/nutrient partitioning product. Incorporating something like Slinmax before higher carb meals would be beneficial for muscle fullness, digestion, and pumps. And using a GDA could also help mitigate some fat gain.

 

[JahCure]

Estimating bodyfat is like finding a needle in a haystack
Way too many variables to be 100% accurate. And to be honest the number means absolutely nothing.
When you see a competitior or athlete on stage does he know his BF%? prob not.. Does a guy doing a photoshoot know his BF% prob not..

You are lean , you got plenty of room on a BIG frame to add size. Keep adding the calories and keep growing.

What does a breakdown of your food look like on a day to day basis as far as meals go?
What does your pre/intra/post workout nutrition look like?

Ok, no worries on the bodyfat percentage I had just heard you never want to go too far over 13% on a bulk as it will be substantially harder to cut back down but there was no research or anything to back that and I'm sure it was just complete bro science.

Meal wise I was going to try to photo my fitness pal but it would have been a bunch of pages so here is a standard day of eating:

Breakfast:
1 cup frozen berries
Perfect rx protein 1.5 scoop
2 large eggs
1T Lara scudder PB
1 cup spinach
.5 cup almond milk

690 cals / 58p/29f/44c

Pre workout:
4 eggs
Handful baby carrots
2 T hummus
1 T lean beef aminos
1 T soy lecithin

446 cal

Intra:
~40 grams HBCDs
Bcaa

Post:
1 scoop PES select
5 gram EAAs
2 banana

2 beef patties
1.5 cup white rice

1200 cal

Snack:
Almond kind bar
Apple

Dinner:
Grilled chicken breast
1 c white rice
1 c mixed veggies

340 cal

Snack:
1 cup frozen berries
Perfect rx protein 1.5 scoop
2 large eggs
1T Lara scudder PB
1 cup spinach
.5 cup almond milk

690 cals / 58p/29f/44c

This is as close to an average day as possible. What would you change and or tweak? Again thanks a lot for all of the personalized help, I'm going to be calling you coach from now on.

Edit: additional supps on the daily:
Multi
Tuna oil
Mk 677
Creatine

 

[The Solution]

Ok, no worries on the bodyfat percentage I had just heard you never want to go too far over 13% on a bulk as it will be substantially harder to cut back down but there was no research or anything to back that and I'm sure it was just complete bro science.

Meal wise I was going to try to photo my fitness pal but it would have been a bunch of pages so here is a standard day of eating:

Breakfast:
1 cup frozen berries
Perfect rx protein 1.5 scoop
2 large eggs
1T Lara scudder PB
1 cup spinach
.5 cup almond milk

690 cals / 58p/29f/44c

Pre workout:
4 eggs
Handful baby carrots
2 T hummus
1 T lean beef aminos
1 T soy lecithin

446 cal

Move your rice here... I would get around 75g carbs here

Intra:
~40 grams HBCDs up to 75g
Bcaa

Post:
1 scoop PES select
5 gram EAAs There is no point in adding extra EAA's to whey protein
2 banana

2 beef patties
1.5 cup white rice

1200 cal

Drop the patties and rice, Up your protein to 1.5-2 scoops

Snack:
Almond kind bar
Apple

move beef patties here

Dinner:
Grilled chicken breast
1 c white rice
1 c mixed veggies

340 cal

Snack:
1 cup frozen berries
Perfect rx protein 1.5 scoop
2 large eggs
1T Lara scudder PB
1 cup spinach
.5 cup almond milk

690 cals / 58p/29f/44c

This is as close to an average day as possible. What would you change and or tweak? Again thanks a lot for all of the personalized help, I'm going to be calling you coach from now on.

See changes above.. Try to maximize pre/intra/post workout nutritoin and keep those the carb heavy meals of the day. Breakfast and pre-bed can be more oriented towards P+F based meals this way you can give the body what it wants around your workout

I would do 75g pre (rice) / 75g HBCD Intra / 75g Post (banana's)
If you are cool with 6 meals thats fine, I would say you could bump it down to 5 if you wanted to
Aim for 50g Protein/75g carbs (pre/post)
~ 75g Carbs intra (thats 250 of your 400g)
Breakfast/Pre-bed you could do 50g Protein ~35-40g Fat (higher fat meal) trace carbs from veggies
And one last meal to help polish off macros (50g Protein, Remaining Carbs and remaining fat)

If you wanted 6 then you could around 40g protein 75g carbs pre/post and 75g carbs intra
2 more meals of P+F
and 2 meals P+C Oriented (40g protein 50g carbs) such as rice cakes and protein powder, your apple and granola bar + Some protein on the side (patties) etc.

Hope that helps.

 

[JahCure]

See changes above.. Try to maximize pre/intra/post workout nutritoin and keep those the carb heavy meals of the day. Breakfast and pre-bed can be more oriented towards P+F based meals this way you can give the body what it wants around your workout

I would do 75g pre (rice) / 75g HBCD Intra / 75g Post (banana's)
If you are cool with 6 meals thats fine, I would say you could bump it down to 5 if you wanted to
Aim for 50g Protein/75g carbs (pre/post)
~ 75g Carbs intra (thats 250 of your 400g)
Breakfast/Pre-bed you could do 50g Protein ~35-40g Fat (higher fat meal) trace carbs from veggies
And one last meal to help polish off macros (50g Protein, Remaining Carbs and remaining fat)

If you wanted 6 then you could around 40g protein 75g carbs pre/post and 75g carbs intra
2 more meals of P+F
and 2 meals P+C Oriented (40g protein 50g carbs) such as rice cakes and protein powder, your apple and granola bar + Some protein on the side (patties) etc.

Hope that helps.

Awesome! Love the constructive criticism. I'll try making the above listed corrections. Those HBCDs are going to go by quick at 75g / workout! Lol.

Again thanks for your help here coach, it's greatly appreciated!

 

[Asteele08]

See changes above.. Try to maximize pre/intra/post workout nutritoin and keep those the carb heavy meals of the day. Breakfast and pre-bed can be more oriented towards P+F based meals this way you can give the body what it wants around your workout

I would do 75g pre (rice) / 75g HBCD Intra / 75g Post (banana's)
If you are cool with 6 meals thats fine, I would say you could bump it down to 5 if you wanted to
Aim for 50g Protein/75g carbs (pre/post)
~ 75g Carbs intra (thats 250 of your 400g)
Breakfast/Pre-bed you could do 50g Protein ~35-40g Fat (higher fat meal) trace carbs from veggies
And one last meal to help polish off macros (50g Protein, Remaining Carbs and remaining fat)

If you wanted 6 then you could around 40g protein 75g carbs pre/post and 75g carbs intra
2 more meals of P+F
and 2 meals P+C Oriented (40g protein 50g carbs) such as rice cakes and protein powder, your apple and granola bar + Some protein on the side (patties) etc.

Hope that helps.

I was looking into getting most carbs periworkout but was thinking of using 2x medium bananas preworkout and the HBCD intra. Any input on that swap with the rice? Cant tell if the fiber in the bananas is affecting any pwo uptake and would love a second opinion.

And Jah, I'd suggest upping your soy lecithin intake. I use 2 tbsp in the morning with my coffee and another 2 preworkout (i workout between 1-6pm). I've seen people using more than 4/day but haven't tried it myself.

 

[The Solution]

I was looking into getting most carbs periworkout but was thinking of using 2x medium bananas preworkout and the HBCD intra. Any input on that swap with the rice? Cant tell if the fiber in the bananas is affecting any pwo uptake and would love a second opinion.
.

nope... that would be overthinking...
if the bananas settle easier then the rice eat them pre. Remember digestion is key here.

 

[Asteele08]

nope... that would be overthinking...
if the bananas settle easier then the rice eat them pre. Remember digestion is key here.

Alright, thanks!

 

[MrKleen73]

Well looks like TheSolution and john.patterson have you pretty squared away. Made a lot of the suggestions I was going to. Without getting yourself a coach you probably aren't going to find a much better recommendations. To be much better someone would need to personalize the plan to your exact needs.

 

[JahCure]

Awesom thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. I have been incorporating your suggestions and I'll try to double my lecithin intake.