Lengthy nutrition question

[MikeNinja]

I am trying to restructure my nutrition plan and I am not sure which path to take. I always hear the eat big to get big story, which basically suggest I should eat like a beast to make proper gains, and then go into a cutting phase get rid of the collected extra fat. The other theory says this is not needed. Apparently, all I need is to calculate my required nutrient intake, and as long as I cover my consumption, I will grow very well, without the unhealthy overeating and annoying cutting phase where you inevitably loose a bit of muscle mass as well. I would tend to agree with the second version, or perhaps eating just a tad above that just to be on the safe side, but then I always think about the phenomenon of skinny women who cant get pregnant. I am not joking here. It is very common, as the body recognizes it does not have the necessary capacities and reserves to bear a baby. I reckon it could be similar with muscle gains. Maybe being a little plump is a better state to be in for the body to be willing to grow muscles, which would suggest you might need to eat like a beast after all. It would be great if anyone had some scientific info on that, as there is way too much he said she said about this, and I a bit of healthy skepticism is required when it comes to stuff like this. Anyway thanks for any input on this.

 

[TKC432]

All depends on your goals really .... if you are aiming to get lean and competition ready then you have to put getting pregnant on hold because you are correct that at low bodyfat levels the female body shuts down reproductively .... most female competitors stop menstruating completely when at competition level bf%. So pick your goal and adjust your nutrition and training to match it.

 

[MikeNinja]

Thanks for the answer, but let me just clarify one thing....I am not a female/trying to get pregnant. I just used the pregnancy analogy to demonstrate that fueling your nutrient consumption may not be all that your body requires for certain goals. Sometimes, it clearly helps to have a bit of fat for the body to be willing to start certain processes, and I was wondering if it is the same with muscles gains, if that makes any sense.

 

[TKC432]

Thanks for the answer, but let me just clarify one thing....I am not a female/trying to get pregnant. I just used the pregnancy analogy to demonstrate that fueling your nutrient consumption may not be all that your body requires for certain goals. Sometimes, it clearly helps to have a bit of fat for the body to be willing to start certain processes, and I was wondering if it is the same with muscles gains, if that makes any sense.

oops my bad. Well its no mystery that competition level bf levels are not "healthy" The body is indeed more "healthy" at higher bf levels .... somewhere around 12-15% IMO. As far as muscle gains .... a typical bulk program will not focus on low bf% at the same time. The body needs fat for many reasons ... hence the reason why the majority of powerlifters are not cut to shreds like competition ready bodybuilders. So in reference to my original post it still depends on your goals. If you are aiming to bulk up and add muscle mass then I would not focus on low bf% at the same time. You can do one well or both poorly .....
That being said there is some evidence suggesting the 'lean bulk' method is a more sustainable approach but even with this you would not try and cut your bf% to competition level at the same time .... this approach would be to gain muscle mass at a slower rate as to not add more bf%. Either method you choose you will end up having to do some sort of cutting at the end to reach competition level bf% .... if that is your goal.

 

[HIT4ME]

I don't have any science to back this up, but here is my thinking on this stuff.

If you are eating in a surplus, you are eating in a surplus. If your body needs 3500 calories/day and 250 grams of protein to grow and you are eating 3,750 calories and 275 grams of protein, then you have all you need to grow AND get fat. If you eat 4,000 calories, you now have all you need to grow and get fatter.

Your body simply can't use what it can't use. The trick is finding the point where you are growing and minimizing fat gain. This can be a fine line, because at 3,400 calories you are now short of resources, but at 3,600 calories you have more than you need....I think the thing is that most people overeat while bulking to make sure they have plenty and then some, because it is hard to estimate what that exact calorie need is when you are growing.

I think we like to think about nutrition as being a causation when it is not. Overeating doesn't cause you to build more muscle. It provides fuel to recover and build muscle. Your body can only recover and build so much at a time, and anything it can't use it won't.

Sorry I don't have scientific studies to throw up here....it would be interesting to see.

 

[Grayson]

Great info here.

I like the bulk a little + cut a little mentality.

You haven't listed your bf levels, but you said that you want to get lean first so I'll help with that first:

Go on a protein sparing modified fast. You can do either Lyle McDonald's rapid fat loss or apex predator diet. But you want to do this till you get to 10-12%. You can start lean gaining there, but I'm personally more comfortable gaining at 8. For 8% I'd recommend ultimate diet 2.0.

Now after that go on 10 day caloric surplus + a 4 day extreme cut (another psmf). Do this for a few cycles and gauge how much you gained.

Obviously this is a very rough outline to just provide some basic info and this does not account for diet breaks, which should be taken every two months.

 

[breezy11]

You don't have to go overboard on calories to grow (a surplus is needed though) and doing so will most likely slow progress after a while.

I personally try to stay fairly lean when adding weight. If my body fat reaches a certain level, I incorporate a mini diet to tighten up and improve insulin sensitivity before continuing the gaining phase.


Here's a decent article on anabolic resistance:

http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/anabolic-resistance-how-mass-diets-can-hurt-you

 

[MikeNinja]

Thanks guys, great info, especially that t nation article was extremely relevant for me. It seems like this overeating nonsense is just one of those terrible myths/dogmas.

 

[breezy11]

No problem man.