I'm Overthinking This

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    I'm Overthinking This


    I just want the input of some others for a little help on my diet. I've been making meal plan, editing, throwing away, making a new, repeat, repeat, repeat....Anyways, I'm going to start an SD cycle here next Monday, will be my 3rd SD cycle I believe. Made all kinds of gains on the last with around a 2-2.5k diet but macros weren't very much counted.

    Stats:
    5'10"
    180

    Current Plan =
    Cal - 3008 Carb - 298 Fat - 98 Pro - 262

    I'll hit that everyday, and by writing this, I've already figured that I don't have a question or anything. These macros should be fine. As my weight starts to increase I think I'll just go ahead and start adding milk to my diet

    For those who want to know what I'm eating *simple*
    1lb 85/15 Ground Beef
    1lb Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast
    500g Russet Potatoes
    1 cup Rice
    6 oz Spaghetti w/ 1 cup Sauce

    I'm also looking at a 5 day split, what do you think of this routine:
    Just looking from some hints and tips on lifts that I'll be performing and if there is a better alternative to what I've chose

    Shoulders & Traps
    Military Press
    BB Shrug
    DB Rear Lateral
    DB Shrug
    DB SHoulder Press
    Dips


    Back
    Rack Deadlift
    Bent Over Row
    Pullups
    Lat Pulldown
    -> Seated Cable Row
    1 arm Lat Pulldown
    -> 1 arm Seated Row


    Chest
    Flat DB Bench
    Incline BB Bench
    High Pulley Crossover
    -> Incline DB Flies
    Flat DB Flies
    -> Low Pulley Crossover


    Legs
    Squat
    Stiff Leg Deadlift
    Leg Press
    Leg Curl
    Leg Extension
    Hack Squat


    Arms
    BB Curl
    Skull Crusher
    -> Close Grip Bench
    DB Curl
    Overhead Triceps Extension
    Reverse BB Curl
    Cable Triceps Pressdown


    * -> = Super Set *
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!

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    I would add:

    Front and lateral raises to shoulders

    Facepulls to back

    Calves of some kind to legs


    Edit: military and dumbell shoulder press are pretty redundant where variety can be incorporated instead.
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    Thanks for the reply! I left out Ab and Calf work for some reason. I'll hit Abs 3 times a week, Mon, Wed, Fri, but only 2 exercises per day *upper/lower abs* and Calves 2 times a week on Tues and Thurs *standing/seated*. I also read the edit, so I'll probably drop the DB shoulder press for the raises
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Thanks for the reply! I left out Ab and Calf work for some reason. I'll hit Abs 3 times a week, Mon, Wed, Fri, but only 2 exercises per day *upper/lower abs* and Calves 2 times a week on Tues and Thurs *standing/seated*. I also read the edit, so I'll probably drop the DB shoulder press for the raises
    Sounds good.

    Just food for thought, weighted rope crunches and cable woodchoppers are awesome ab exercises.
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    Thanks again my man. I will have the rope crunches in there, guess I'll just post up the workouts

    Mon:
    Decline Situp
    Leg Raises

    Tues:
    Standing/Seated Calfves

    Wed:
    Reverse Hypers
    Side Bends

    Thur:
    Standing/Seated Calves

    Fri:
    Hanging Knee Raise
    Rope Pulldown

    All the abs I'll be doing weighted and just working my way up. Thanks again for the critiques!
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I would add:

    Front and lateral raises to shoulders

    Facepulls to back

    Calves of some kind to legs


    Edit: military and dumbell shoulder press are pretty redundant where variety can be incorporated instead.
    I disagree with adding front raises; considering that will cause an imbalance in the front and rear delts usually due to the fact bench press smashes the front delts more than enough and, dependant on your form, OHP will too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I disagree with adding front raises; considering that will cause an imbalance in the front and rear delts usually due to the fact bench press smashes the front delts more than enough and, dependant on your form, OHP will too.
    His row variations and dumbell rear laterals will add balance to his rear delts and hopefully he will add the face pulls too. I don't think he will have an issue in the big picture but if so he can cut back.

    I am curious though, OP, can you provide details as to sets and reps?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    His row variations and dumbell rear laterals will add balance to his rear delts and hopefully he will add the face pulls too. I don't think he will have an issue in the big picture but if so he can cut back.

    I am curious though, OP, can you provide details as to sets and reps?
    Perhaps. But from my experience and many others on this board, many people tend to have overly developed anterior delts and underdeveloped rear delts; ZiR also posted something about front delt raises in another thread detailing why they may be bad for shoulder health (if i remember correctly).

    Def agree with face pulls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Perhaps. But from my experience and many others on this board, many people tend to have overly developed anterior delts and underdeveloped rear delts; ZiR also posted something about front delt raises in another thread detailing why they may be bad for shoulder health (if i remember correctly).

    Def agree with face pulls.
    The ROM tends to lead to impingements and they're already stressed enough without direct work.

    There are only 4 movements with horizontal extensions and 6 with horizontal flexion. There's way more internal rotator work than external rotator work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Perhaps. But from my experience and many others on this board, many people tend to have overly developed anterior delts and underdeveloped rear delts; ZiR also posted something about front delt raises in another thread detailing why they may be bad for shoulder health (if i remember correctly).

    Def agree with face pulls.
    And he may or may not, his lift outline technically gives balance, especially if he adds face pulls. Whether or not he has a pre-existing imbalance to correct is another topic.

    As far as exercises coming under fire for safety, while I can respectfully acknowledge concerns, I also realize squats, deadlifts, most olympic lifts and a slew of other staples would be dead soldiers and we would all be using shake weights on bosu balls if we adhered to every warning. My take is to monitor yourself. Abnormal pain or inflammation should be taken in to personal account.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    And he may or may not, his lift outline technically gives balance, especially if he adds face pulls. Whether or not he has a pre-existing imbalance to correct is another topic.

    As far as exercises coming under fire for safety, while I can respectfully acknowledge concerns, I also realize squats, deadlifts, most olympic lifts and a slew of other staples would be dead soldiers and we would all be using shake weights on bosu balls if we adhered to every warning. My take is to monitor yourself. Abnormal pain or inflammation should be taken in to personal account.
    On what planet is his routine balanced? 11 lifts that stress the internal rotators and only 4 for the external rotators.
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    Before this turns in to another argument, let's be clear that any discussion point based on subjective values such as "enough stimulation" will go unsubstantiated.


    OP, if you feel pain in any lift, assess your form, mobility, flexibility and ROM. If all systems are go but pain persists, drop the lift.

    Personally upright rows kill my shoulders but front raises, along with most of the lifts you will be using, have led to excellent gains without issue. Just know your body, they are not all alike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Before this turns in to another argument, let's be clear that any discussion point based on subjective values such as "enough stimulation" will go unsubstantiated.


    OP, if you feel pain in any lift, assess your form, mobility, flexibility and ROM. If all systems are go but pain persists, drop the lift.

    Personally upright rows kill my shoulders but front raises, along with most of the lifts you will be using, have led to excellent gains without issue. Just know your body, they are not all alike.
    We're talking about planar balance, which is easily observable. This routine is most likely going to lead to internally rotated humerus' and impingements in the biceps tendon and/or supraspinatus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    On what planet is his routine balanced? 11 lifts that stress the internal rotators and only 4 for the external rotators.
    Balanced for aesthetic purposes.

    OP, can you set a goal basis? What are you wanting to achieve?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Balanced for aesthetic purposes.

    OP, can you set a goal basis? What are you wanting to achieve?
    I'm not speaking from an aesthetic perspective at all. I'm speaking from a planar balance perspective for optimal posture and injury/impingement prevention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    We're talking about planar balance, which is easily observable. This routine is most likely going to lead to internally rotated humerus' and impingements in the biceps tendon and/or supraspinatus.
    I'm talking about aesthetic balance he seems to be after. You can talk about planar balance if you want.

    Let's be totally cautious though and have him eliminate squats, deads and bent over rows. He's headed to herniated disks for sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I'm talking about aesthetic balance he seems to be after. You can talk about planar balance if you want.

    Let's be totally cautious though and have him eliminate squats, deads and bent over rows. He's headed to herniated disks for sure!
    A better idea would be to completely disregard anything that you suggest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    A better idea would be to completely disregard anything that you suggest.
    Lol.

    What do you have against face pulls and direct calf work?
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    OP, I'm being sarcastic about eliminating squats, deads and rows. Hit them hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Lol.

    What do you have against face pulls and direct calf work?
    Where did I say anything suggesting that I am an opponent of either of those? Do your reading abilities really suck that badly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Where did I say anything suggesting that I am an opponent of either of those? Do your reading abilities really suck that badly?
    Those are things I suggested and you suggested ignoring everything I suggest, like maybe two minutes ago.

    This is getting weird.

    OP, your routine should lead to a balanced, aesthetic look. Make adjustments as necessary. I'm sure Rodja would love to talk to you about planar balance and will make interesting points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Those are things I suggested and you suggested ignoring everything I suggest, like maybe two minutes ago.

    This is getting weird.

    OP, your routine should lead to a balanced, aesthetic look. Make adjustments as necessary. I'm sure Rodja would love to talk to you about planar balance and will make interesting points.
    The notion that some facepulls will suffice for balance is absurd. Almost all BB'ing routines are horribly imbalanced because BB'ers know jack **** about making a balanced routine with regards to internal:external rotator balance. Hell, most routines have zero regard to this because it is above their heads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    The notion that some facepulls will suffice for balance is absurd. Almost all BB'ing routines are horribly imbalanced because BB'ers know jack **** about making a balanced routine with regards to internal:external rotator balance. Hell, most routines have zero regard to this because it is above their heads.
    Ok cool. I'm still discussing aesthetic balance though. But hey, any input would be appreciated by the OP I'm sure.
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    Oh yeah, and FTR, in bodybuilding, aesthetic balance is a goal intentionally achieved; not a default consequence of ignorance. Let's not start measuring X against Y on Y's terms again please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Oh yeah, and FTR, in bodybuilding, aesthetic balance is a goal intentionally achieved; not a default consequence of ignorance. Let's not start measuring X against Y on Y's terms again please.
    Thanks for the half assed attempt to give me an ambiguous definition regarding BB'ing. Here's the problem with your premise: balance is easily and indisputably measurable.
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    Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are
    11 lifts that stress the internal rotators and only 4 for the external rotators.
    Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
    Sometimes BB reverse curls cause issue for me too. I broke the same bone in my left wrist twice as a kid and I'm pretty sure the pain is an extension of that. *


    Dumbells or a knurled bar gripped at the right angle cause no issue though.




    * FTR, I don't have a double blind, peer reviewed study conducted in a controlled setting to prove this. I only have one left wrist. Pain very well could be caused by something else. Dumbells and knurled bars work either way though, for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
    Lifts you have listed that stress internal rotators:
    All chest movements
    DB/BB shoulder presses
    Pullups/downs

    Lifts for external:
    Rows
    Rear fly

    Forearm curls are a waste of time compared to grip training, which will stimulate both the flexors and extensors in a static motion. Utilizing something along the lines of Fat Gripz during training will take away the need for any forearm training and will also ease any elbow pain you may incur.

    Sticking to one specific rep range is a recipe for stagnation after the initial accumulation. One of the biggest reasons for a quick plateau with BB'ing routines is a lack of any periodization and overload. The simple adage of "eat more and lift heavier" does not qualify as a periodization scheme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I'm talking about aesthetic balance he seems to be after. You can talk about planar balance if you want.

    Let's be totally cautious though and have him eliminate squats, deads and bent over rows. He's headed to herniated disks for sure!
    I don't understand why rather than acknowledge the suggestion of someone who is better informed, your immediate reaction is to disregard it and make it seem that it is without basis. You did the same on another post when someone, using current research, challenged the six meals a day paradigm. There are a few people on this board who are both intelligent and well read on physiology, nutrition and exercise science and Rodja is one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I don't understand why rather than acknowledge the suggestion of someone who is better informed, your immediate reaction is to disregard it and make it seem that it is without basis. You did the same on another post when someone, using current research, challenged the six meals a day paradigm. There are a few people on this board who are both intelligent and well read on physiology, nutrition and exercise science and Rodja is one of them.
    Regarding this thread, I'm not challenging Rodja and his planar balance advice that may or may not be given. I was discussing an aesthetic balance, which he challenged with planar balance. It's really not even an argument as they are two totally separate issues. It's a shame it was forced to become an argument. As stated, I'm sure Rodja can make interesting points regarding planar balance. Still a different topic though.

    Regarding diet, the whole argument spun off of applying one methodology to another. Anyone not stuck on ramrodding an argument will tell you this is stupid. Multiple diets work through various metabolic pathways and to say one is wrong, though it has been successfully implemented for decades is also stupid. Do people understand how IF works? Yes. Have I acknowledged it works from the beginning? Yes. Is this even the point of contention at all? No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Lifts you have listed that stress internal rotators:
    All chest movements
    DB/BB shoulder presses
    Pullups/downs

    Lifts for external:
    Rows
    Rear fly

    Forearm curls are a waste of time compared to grip training, which will stimulate both the flexors and extensors in a static motion. Utilizing something along the lines of Fat Gripz during training will take away the need for any forearm training and will also ease any elbow pain you may incur.

    Sticking to one specific rep range is a recipe for stagnation after the initial accumulation. One of the biggest reasons for a quick plateau with BB'ing routines is a lack of any periodization and overload. The simple adage of "eat more and lift heavier" does not qualify as a periodization scheme.
    Thanks for pointing those things out, but could you suggest some lifts to change up to even out the imbalance you've pointed out. Maybe by eliminating the DB shoulder press for another lift that hits the external rotators, that would even things up?

    I am going with plate pinches for grip/forearm training

    As for periodization, I will start to add sets as my body begins to become more accumulated with the workout as it is now. Every now and then I will switch up the principals of Volume, Intensity, Frequency. This type of split for me has shown the best gains so far. I have a couple upper/lower routines as well as full body
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    I'd rotate between BB and DB shoulder presses instead of both and replaced with facepulls or seated DB cleans. Take out the 1 arm pulldowns on back day and then one of the crossover and one fly as well on chest. I'm not sure why you dips listed for shoulders and traps.

    That right there takes out 4 internal rotation movements and adds an additional external rotator movement.

    On a different note, don't superset skullcrushers and close grip. Do them separately with close grip first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I'd rotate between BB and DB shoulder presses instead of both and replaced with facepulls or seated DB cleans. Take out the 1 arm pulldowns on back day and then one of the crossover and one fly as well on chest. I'm not sure why you dips listed for shoulders and traps.

    That right there takes out 4 internal rotation movements and adds an additional external rotator movement.

    On a different note, don't superset skullcrushers and close grip. Do them separately with close grip first.

    Shoulders & Traps
    Military Press
    BB Shrug
    DB Rear Lateral
    DB Shrug
    *Seated DB Clean or Face Pulls
    *Face Pulls or Rear BB Shrug?



    Back
    Rack Deadlift
    Bent Over Row
    *T-Bar Row
    Pullups
    Lat Pulldown
    Seated Cable Row


    Chest
    Flat DB Bench
    Incline BB Bench
    High Pulley Crossover
    Incline DB Flies
    *Dips
    *???


    Legs
    Squat
    Stiff Leg Deadlift
    Leg Press
    Hack Squat
    Leg Curl
    Leg Extension


    Arms
    Close Grip Bench
    BB Curl
    Skull Crusher
    DB Curl
    Overhead Triceps Extension
    Plate Pinch
    Rope Triceps Pressdown

    Does that look better? I would like 1 more chest exercise and some input on the shoulders/traps day again. With the seated db clean and facepull, would it be alright to add both? All edits/questions made are in red.
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    If you're doing DB shrugs, there's not much point to doing rear BB shrug. Alternate between facepulls and seated DB cleans or, after you get the form down, occasionally superset them. On back, alternate between T-bar, DB, and Meadows rows for variation. 5 lifts for chest is more than enough and put dips before the isolation work.
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    Thanks a bunch for the help! I can't wait to see the results from this. I may or may not start my cycle on Monday, if not Monday, then it'll be next monday
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Thanks a bunch for the help! I can't wait to see the results from this. I may or may not start my cycle on Monday, if not Monday, then it'll be next monday
    No problem. If you have any more questions, PM me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Does that look better? I would like 1 more chest exercise and some input on the shoulders/traps day again. With the seated db clean and facepull, would it be alright to add both? All edits/questions made are in red.
    From an aesthetic perspective, your modified routine is geared heavily to build thickness on back day, which is fine, but if you get in to it and feel you need more width you will have to add more pulldowns. Internal rotation and all. You can **** around with wide grip rows but it isn't the same. Pullovers are great too.

    Your shoulders, from an aesthetic perspective, will really benefit from lateral and front raises. They respond well to high volume and isolation work.

    Facepulls are awesome. Kudos for adding them.
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    From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.
    Exactly. Youll see guys in the gym doing sets of overhead press, then 4 sets lateral raises, then 4 sets front raises. After all that they'll finally do some bent over rear delt flys with 5 pounders.

    I think your average gym go-er have under developed posterior delts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.
    Not with rear laterals and facepulls in the mix along with his rows, as previously mentioned.
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