Cardio on bulk - HIIT or LISS?

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    Cardio on bulk - HIIT or LISS?


    Planning a lean bulk, trying to figure out what type of cardio to do. Either HIIT 2x/wk, LISS 3x/wk, or maybe HIIT 1x/wk & LISS 2x/wk? Just curious how many people do HIIT on a bulk? If so, what are your intervals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Planning a lean bulk, trying to figure out what type of cardio to do. Either HIIT 2x/wk, LISS 3x/wk, or maybe HIIT 1x/wk & LISS 2x/wk? Just curious how many people do HIIT on a bulk? If so, what are your intervals?
    Do whatever is your preference. Personally, I would say just do shorter sessions of HIIT three times a week, a day between each, ideally on days not doing resistance training...I do HIIT all year round. Usually 20 second sprint/10 sec easy, and do anywhere from 8-30 efforts, dependent on the day, etc. Check out my log for examples of my training sessions: The Female Terminator Chronicles: The Ultimate Muscle and Physique Stack (2012)

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    Why would you do cardio, HIIT will just harm your recovery and LI is bad for muscle gain. For the cleanest bulk possible I suggest you do Carb cycling with 3 high carb days (500 above maintenance) , 2 medium (300 above maintenance) and 2 "low" carb (maintenance levels).

    It's not easy to gain fat if your food choices are clean.
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    I'd like to bump this.. I know it is preference... I find HIIT to be most effective for me... Yet I do enjoy a nice long incline walk in sweats and a hoodie to just drench out excess fluids and get some low intensity calorie burning.

    I'm gonna be lifting 3x a week on a new program in jan and I'm trying to decide how I want to set up my cardio... I've been doing 10 minute sessions of 30 second on/30 off of HIIT post workout and really like the metabolic effects after a tough lift... But when on a "bulk" I'm not sure if I want to do any cardio post workout...

    I will be lifting Monday, Wed, and Friday
    Can either do HIIT 2x a week on off days
    Or do HIIT 3x a week on lift days with LISS once or twice a week on off days.

    Sat and Sunday r for rest and relaxation so I am limiting myself to a 5 day schedule.

    So what are the general thoughts on how much cardio / the type/ when
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    HIIT, it works for me and has no effect on my recovery. At most I only do 15min a session, and depending on my mood depends on how often I do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I'd like to bump this.. I know it is preference... I find HIIT to be most effective for me... Yet I do enjoy a nice long incline walk in sweats and a hoodie to just drench out excess fluids and get some low intensity calorie burning.

    I'm gonna be lifting 3x a week on a new program in jan and I'm trying to decide how I want to set up my cardio... I've been doing 10 minute sessions of 30 second on/30 off of HIIT post workout and really like the metabolic effects after a tough lift... But when on a "bulk" I'm not sure if I want to do any cardio post workout...

    I will be lifting Monday, Wed, and Friday
    Can either do HIIT 2x a week on off days
    Or do HIIT 3x a week on lift days with LISS once or twice a week on off days.

    Sat and Sunday r for rest and relaxation so I am limiting myself to a 5 day schedule.

    So what are the general thoughts on how much cardio / the type/ when
    How much, what type, and when you do cardio are entirely dependent on YOU. If you are trying to gain muscle mass I would recommend doing it on the days you're not lifting - HIIT is ideal and if it's the "most effective" for you then go for it. I currently lift Monday, Wednesday, Friday and do ~20 minutes of HIIT Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. All dependent on YOU. Play around with it if you want to see what gets you the best results for your GOALS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee View Post

    How much, what type, and when you do cardio are entirely dependent on YOU. If you are trying to gain muscle mass I would recommend doing it on the days you're not lifting - HIIT is ideal and if it's the "most effective" for you then go for it. I currently lift Monday, Wednesday, Friday and do ~20 minutes of HIIT Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. All dependent on YOU. Play around with it if you want to see what gets you the best results for your GOALS.

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    Lol it's funny bc I feel so silly goin to the gym for 20 minutes! But yea.. That is the best way I can think of to gain muscle and keep fat at bay/possibly recomp
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    There are many questions here. Which is best for fat loss, which hampers muscle growth or strength gain?

    Modality and duration are two of the most important influencing factors of concurrent training.

    I go over a large base of research in this video for anyone who wants some more in depth answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    There are many questions here. Which is best for fat loss, which hampers muscle growth or strength gain?

    Modality and duration are two of the most important influencing factors of concurrent training.

    I go over a large base of research in this video for anyone who wants some more in depth answers.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHza-69ghCc">YouTube Link</a>
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Lol it's funny bc I feel so silly goin to the gym for 20 minutes! But yea.. That is the best way I can think of to gain muscle and keep fat at bay/possibly recomp
    I just run OUTSIDE

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    Running appears to have a higher interference effect with concurrent training than cycling. Perhaps in part due to the larger eccentric emphasis and higher rate of muscle tissue damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Planning a lean bulk, trying to figure out what type of cardio to do. Either HIIT 2x/wk, LISS 3x/wk, or maybe HIIT 1x/wk & LISS 2x/wk? Just curious how many people do HIIT on a bulk? If so, what are your intervals?
    I always do both. I like LISS pre workout to warm up and end with HITT. If u do this though you may want to take a intraworkout drink before the HIIT
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    HIIT bicycling. Yes, it will disturb recovery the first few weeks. Thereafter, it will actually accelerate progress by building up the mitochondrial capacity of the legs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    HIIT bicycling. Yes, it will disturb recovery the first few weeks. Thereafter, it will actually accelerate progress by building up the mitochondrial capacity of the legs.
    I am on the both train. Liss is great but I am anti liss on the treadmil. I believe the stair master is the ultimate liss machine. Otherwise I am a true believer that walking on the sidewalk is more beneficial from a biological standpoint and overall balance.

    On the other hand I believe 99% of the general population need a higher threshold for endurance and vo2max. This is where my jumprope circuit comes in.

    I however am anti hiit during diet.
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    Also on the both train...

    I do HIIT for 20 minutes on a bike with 30 second sprints every 2 minutes and then move to the treadmill and do on max incline at ~4mph for another 20 minutes. Seems as the HIIT makes my LISS much more effective and keeps the heart rate higher for the duration of it too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    There are many questions here. Which is best for fat loss, which hampers muscle growth or strength gain?

    Modality and duration are two of the most important influencing factors of concurrent training.

    I go over a large base of research in this video for anyone who wants some more in depth answers.

    very good summary on the current research!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    HIIT bicycling. Yes, it will disturb recovery the first few weeks. Thereafter, it will actually accelerate progress by building up the mitochondrial capacity of the legs.
    See Ben Pakulski ^
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    The cardio I did, I did on cut. But what I found is still on a severe calorie cut and doing weights 3-5 times a week my calves, gluts, and quads got huge and cut. So this whole "zomg cardio=tard4gainz, you gonnaBcatabolic" parroting is bull. You can put on muscle even with cardio, regardless. You just have to backfill your cals.

    Does this make alot of sense for most? Maybe not. But for IFers it makes perfect sense, burning the most amount during fast window, back loading cals post workout for protien synthesis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post
    The cardio I did, I did on cut. But what I found is still on a severe calorie cut and doing weights 3-5 times a week my calves, gluts, and quads got huge and cut. So this whole "zomg cardio=tard4gainz, you gonnaBcatabolic" parroting is bull. You can put on muscle even with cardio, regardless. You just have to backfill your cals.

    Does this make alot of sense for most? Maybe not. But for IFers it makes perfect sense, burning the most amount during fast window, back loading cals post workout for protien synthesis.
    Better for weight loss (Muscle included), then it is for hypertrophy. Also it's much easier to get results in untrained individuals no matter what your approach is. If you take someone doing next to nothing then put them on plan x, they will inevitably have improvements regardless of whether or not the program is optimal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeyjd View Post
    Better for weight loss (Muscle included), then it is for hypertrophy. Also it's much easier to get results in untrained individuals no matter what your approach is. If you take someone doing next to nothing then put them on plan x, they will inevitably have improvements regardless of whether or not the program is optimal.
    I run 9 miles a day (in an hour), largely fasted. Am I still "untrained"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    I run 9 miles a day (in an hour), largely fasted.
    I'm sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post
    I run 9 miles a day (in an hour), largely fasted. Am I still "untrained"?
    Sounds fun... Why do you do this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeyjd View Post
    Sounds fun... Why do you do this?
    Habit from cut cycle. Starting to back it down and do less cardio, more weight training. But part of me doesn't want to give up vo2 max
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post
    Habit from cut cycle. Starting to back it down and do less cardio, more weight training. But part of me doesn't want to give up vo2 max
    Jogging 9 miles a day sounds like a perfect recipe for joint death and metabolic slowdown. At least mix in some other forms of cardio please ^
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    Effect of intensity of aerobic training on VO2max.

    METHODS:
    Sixty-one health young adult subjects were matched for sex and VO2max and were randomly assigned to a moderate- (50% VO2 reserve (VO2R), vigorous (75% VO2R), near-maximal-intensity (95% VO2R), or a nonexercising control group. Intensity during exercise was controlled by having the subjects maintain target HR based on HR reserve. Exercise volume (and thus energy expenditure) was controlled across the three training groups by varying duration and frequency. Fifty-five subjects completed a 6-wk training protocol on a stationary bicycle ergometer and pre- and posttesting. During the final 4 wk, the moderate-intensity group exercised for 60 min, 4 d.wk the vigorous-intensity group exercised for 40 min, 4 d.wk and the near-maximal-intensity group exercised 3 d.wk performing 5 min at 75% VO2R followed by five intervals of 5 min at 95% VO2R and 5 min at 50% VO2R.

    RESULTS:
    VO2max significantly increased in all exercising groups by 7.2, 4.8, and 3.4 mL.min.kg in the near-maximal-, the vigorous-, and the moderate-intensity groups, respectively. Percent increases in the near-maximal- (20.6%), the vigorous- (14.3%), and the moderate-intensity (10.0%) groups were all significantly different from each other (P < 0.05). There were no significant changes in resting HR and BP in any group.

    CONCLUSION:
    When volume of exercise is controlled, higher intensities of exercise are more effective for improving VO2max than lower intensities of exercise in healthy, young adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Effect of intensity of aerobic training on VO2max.

    METHODS:
    Sixty-one health young adult subjects were matched for sex and VO2max and were randomly assigned to a moderate- (50% VO2 reserve (VO2R), vigorous (75% VO2R), near-maximal-intensity (95% VO2R), or a nonexercising control group. Intensity during exercise was controlled by having the subjects maintain target HR based on HR reserve. Exercise volume (and thus energy expenditure) was controlled across the three training groups by varying duration and frequency. Fifty-five subjects completed a 6-wk training protocol on a stationary bicycle ergometer and pre- and posttesting. During the final 4 wk, the moderate-intensity group exercised for 60 min, 4 d.wk the vigorous-intensity group exercised for 40 min, 4 d.wk and the near-maximal-intensity group exercised 3 d.wk performing 5 min at 75% VO2R followed by five intervals of 5 min at 95% VO2R and 5 min at 50% VO2R.

    RESULTS:
    VO2max significantly increased in all exercising groups by 7.2, 4.8, and 3.4 mL.min.kg in the near-maximal-, the vigorous-, and the moderate-intensity groups, respectively. Percent increases in the near-maximal- (20.6%), the vigorous- (14.3%), and the moderate-intensity (10.0%) groups were all significantly different from each other (P < 0.05). There were no significant changes in resting HR and BP in any group.

    CONCLUSION:
    When volume of exercise is controlled, higher intensities of exercise are more effective for improving VO2max than lower intensities of exercise in healthy, young adults.

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