The olive oil experiment

[R1187]

If it's all just energy in/energy out, I wonder if I can gain weight simply by ingesting 8oz of olive oil a day.

This is nearly 2,000 calories on it's own, and will be combined with an additional 3,500 calories obtained from whole foods.

Any thoughts?

Dietary fat means NOTHING to me; you don't get fat from eating fat.

 

[1newbie]

No idea, but I was tempted to try something similar with coconut oil.

 

[ssbackwards]

"Unlike the longer chain fatty
acids which are absorbed by the lymph system and must be acted on by the bile
salts, short chain fatty
acids are absorbed directly through the portal vein leading to the
liver. As they do not need to be
acted upon by the bile salts, [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]these
short and medium chain fatty acids supply quick energy.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]It is the longer chain fatty
acids that are stored in the adipose tissue, particularly oleic
and linoleic acid.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Thus butter and
coconut oil, which contain a significant portion of short and medium chain fatty
acids, do not contribute to weight gain as much as olive oil and vegetable
oil.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The short and medium chain
fatty acids also have anti-microbial and anti-fungal properties in the
intestinal tract; they [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]have anti-tumor
properties and help strengthen the immune system,[/FONT] while an excess of
polyunsaturated fatty acids stimulates tumor growth. [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Unsaturated omega-3 and
omega-6 fatty acids are called essential fatty acids or EFA's because the
body cannot manufacture them, at least not in the form in which they occur in
foods. It is wise to limit intake of polyunsaturates to 4% of the caloric total,
in approximate proportions 1½% omega-3 linolenic acid and 2½% omega-6 linoleic
acid."

Taken from
http://www.tuberose.com/Fats_&_Oils.html[/FONT]

 

[hvactech]

interesting trial and error here...thats 5500 total cals, not knowing your stats im guessing there will be fat gained

 

[TheSwanks]

After reading up a little on this myself recently, I'm going to switch out my olive oil for more butter and coconut oil. Still lots of natty pb and whole eggs though yum

 

[ssbackwards]

coconut oil is legit!

 

[ssbackwards]

another pretty awesome study but on cocoa butter, which i make my home made chocolate bars with (found in recipe section of this forum)

http://www.ajcn.org/content/50/5/983.long

 

[ssbackwards]

super interesting but in rabbits.

fatty acid accumulation tends to "cap off" where as others dont,.
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/07/sas-mufas-vs-pufas-fat-storage-depends.html

 

[Whacked]

Agreed - except for the last paragraph

The authors do not report whether calorie intake varied between groups or how much actual adipose tissue the groups had. They only mention that during the 4-week experiment, all rabbits in the five experimental groups were healthy and gained weight.

super interesting but in rabbits.

fatty acid accumulation tends to "cap off" where as others dont,.
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/07/sas-mufas-vs-pufas-fat-storage-depends.html

 

[ssbackwards]

i agree, however the excretion of certain saturated fats makes those fats more appealing for those on a bulk where it is cholesterol neutral.

 

[1newbie]

Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......

 

[Whacked]

With 5 of those carbs being fiber

http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/coconut-butter

Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......

 

[ssbackwards]

heres what i have been enjoying regularly

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recipes/196968-keto-friendly-chocolate.html

 

[Whacked]

Nice
Score into 8 pieces.
You'll get about:
16g fat
3.75g carb
2.25g fiber
12g protein
Per piece

 

[mkretz]

damn...some good stuff on here!!!........ so no more olive oil....what about nuts?

 

[TheSwanks]

Nuts are still great. I just think that coconut oil is better for adding fat than olive oil because of its higher proportion of mct which get used immediately as energy vs the lct in olive oil that take much longer to digest and are stored in adipose tissue before being used for energy.

That's a really long sentence.

 

[Whacked]

This thread's become slightly misleading IMO.

While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.

 

[grngoloco]

Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,

 

[TheSwanks]

This thread's becoem a bit misleading IMO.

While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.

I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).

 

[Whacked]

Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...

I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).

 

[TheSwanks]

Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...

You just have to keep one-upping me, huh? Lol jk all really good info. All falls into the "YMMV" category.

 

[ssbackwards]

I have some stuff to say. But I need to do it while I'm on my computer later

 

[TheSwanks]

Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...

Always have to one-up me, huh? Lol jk this is all good info! Falls into the "YMMV" category

 

[Whacked]

hahahahah LMAO

Just messin with ya bruh

 

[ssbackwards]

This thread's become slightly misleading IMO.

While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.

MCT are digested via portal circulation like carbohydrate, they are oxidized before LCT leading to first pass usage (MCT before LCT in the liver). They are used as a carb would be used. When taken pre workout that WILL be used and more then likely converted to ketones during that time. Since its short chain it allows the body to make use of it more easily. It can also aid in decreasing appetite and reducing weight. Start off by switching out 40g of LCT for 40g MCT and youll see a tremendous difference in how you function and how you feel. Low carb or not.

Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,

Yes the smoke point on EVCO is much better and due to it being a saturated fat its a little more stable then the other oils (n-3/6/9). Those omega fats have double bonds which when cooked long enough will be hydrogenated (completely saturated) or partially hydrogenated (trans fat). This can be prevented by using some water every so often in the pan to help increase the smoke point.

Due the MCTs being cholesterol neutral, and other fats like palmitic and stearic acid (both of which saturated), it is shown that they arent completely digested. They are excreted and thus studies in humans show they are cholesterol neutral. The lauric acid may even aid in cholesterol increase (from coconut oil).

Stearic acid is a fat that when the body doesnt have enough of other fats can be converted to n-9 fats. Strange right? well the reason i believe this is, is due to saturation of fatty acid types in the adipose tissue causing the body to create a fat (from stearic acid) that it needs to aid functionality. But im not 100% sure

I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).

If your going to add in extra fats over you caloric maintence i would recommend doing so with Coconut oil rather then a LCT. Ive have GREAT success with all my clients doing this. espeically on FAT REFEEDS during a ketogenic diet.

Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...

This is tru as well

Carbs contribute little to de novo lipogenesis in humans. A point ive been trying to make for past few months ive been posting about it. Carbs are lipogenic in presence of fats, and over consumption of calories, along with in multiple meals per day (more then 3).


Fat is more easily stored as fat. So if your going over in you caloric intake, dont have the majority of it in fats (unless MCT) , UNLESS carbs are lower to lower malonyl CoA content. When M-CoA is high its sets a adipogenic message across the board. M-CoA is high in presence of high liver glycogen. Couple that with increased carbs causing a rise in Akt, and other adipogenic hormones/ anabolic hormones, you can cause weight gain even more (when there is multiple meals a day involving carbs, and overage in calories).


just some food for thought.

 

[Whacked]

Killer post SS, thanks

Only disputable point: ""Carbs are lipogenic in presence of fats (agreed), and over consumption of calories (agreed), along with in multiple meals per day (more then 3)."

Perhaps that was a simple guideline, but not sure the meal quantity (3) is relevant.

 

[ssbackwards]

meal timing is definetly relavent. optimal nutritional timing is the best way to control things.

Takes about 3 hours for insulin levels to come back to normal, 4 hours for leptin to return back to normal.

If insulin is consistently raised, it may set the stage for a resistance in leptin signaling, and increases cholesterol production. The increase in Akt aids in adipocyte maturation and differentiation.

When considering a carbohydrates in diet especially during an off season or bulking diet you really need to be careful with consecutive carbohydrate containing meals. This is obviously to prevent the the resistance to leptin and insulin. This usually isnt a problem in leaner individuals, but is seen much more consistently in those 15% and higher. They bulk properly with the calories, however they see more fat gain then muscle gain, or a poor ration of muscle to fat gain.

Its a problem that is seen far to often. From what i have seen there are better ways to go about all these problems. and this is one of them.

 

[Whacked]

Coconut for Frying: Agreed, they are vastly superior.

Coconut for HDL levels/Cardiovasular Health: With respect to your comment about healthy HDL levels and using Olive Oil in your protein shakes for optimal lipid levels, I would argue Fish Oils as having a superior effect (with Olive POil still beign sa healthy adjunct). That said, monounsaturated fats are excellent sources of fats for a variety of other issues that Fish Oils are not. One more reason to get ALL your fat sources in excpet for trans-fatty acids. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070504142925.htm

Coconut For HDL: Though coconut oil is 90% saturated fat (compared to around 50% in beef, butter, and lard), a larger percentage is what’s called lauric acid, which boosts HDL more than palmitic acid, the saturated fat found predominantly in meat and dairy products. So as saturated fats go, coconut oil is preferable

Coconut for Energy Levels: There is little argument that MCT oils are an excellent source of energy w/o the elevation in insulin from carbs so theoretically, a heightened level of fat-burning might be achieved.

However, I do recall a study or anecdotal reports whereby athletes were using MCT oils pre-training and within days, the body rendered it useless as an energy source! It's as if the body attentuated it that quickly. I am still trying to locate the actual study. Don't quote me as I am going off of memory which stinks these days. LOL

Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,

 

[Whacked]

Did you read the part about feccal fat? LOL
Apparently the digestability of Cocoa Butter fats is a slight issue.

Nothing like oily diarhea

another pretty awesome study but on cocoa butter, which i make my home made chocolate bars with (found in recipe section of this forum)

http://www.ajcn.org/content/50/5/983.long

 

[TheSwanks]

Did you read the part about feccal fat? LOL
Apparently the digestability of Cocoa Butter fats is a slight issue.

Nothing like oily diarhea

Remember Olestra and "fat free" potato chips that actually had this undigestable fat in them. Warning on the bag said "may cause oily discharge"

F-ING sick. Lol.

I'm not sure how keto-ers do it, I'm at <200 carbs and 130g fat today and I'm not sure I could do it too often. I've been getting some bad carb bloat so I'm trying to get a couple low carb days in to even it out a little. Also thought that being on some test boosters, higher fat would give me more raw materials to make those molecules with. No sense boosting the body's desire to make test without giving it plenty of fat to make it with, right?

 

[Whacked]

Yup yup

Im a low carber too. No better way to get lean (for me)

 

[ssbackwards]

That fecal fat is negligable. Your more likely to get diarrhea from evco then cacao butter. I've noticed harder stools with that keto bar

 

[Whacked]

Good to know. I need to get some cacao butter before I can make this darn recipe! lol

 

[grngoloco]

Coconut for Frying: Agreed, they are vastly superior.

Coconut for HDL levels/Cardiovasular Health: With respect to your comment about healthy HDL levels and using Olive Oil in your protein shakes for optimal lipid levels, I would argue Fish Oils as having a superior effect (with Olive POil still beign sa healthy adjunct). That said, monounsaturated fats are excellent sources of fats for a variety of other issues that Fish Oils are not. One more reason to get ALL your fat sources in excpet for trans-fatty acids. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070504142925.htm

Coconut For HDL: Though coconut oil is 90% saturated fat (compared to around 50% in beef, butter, and lard), a larger percentage is what's called lauric acid, which boosts HDL more than palmitic acid, the saturated fat found predominantly in meat and dairy products. So as saturated fats go, coconut oil is preferable

Coconut for Energy Levels: There is little argument that MCT oils are an excellent source of energy w/o the elevation in insulin from carbs so theoretically, a heightened level of fat-burning might be achieved.

However, I do recall a study or anecdotal reports whereby athletes were using MCT oils pre-training and within days, the body rendered it useless as an energy source! It's as if the body attentuated it that quickly. I am still trying to locate the actual study. Don't quote me as I am going off of memory which stinks these days. LOL

I also put cod liver and grapeseed oils in my shake,,, about two tablespoons of each,, 6 tablespoons of oil total

 

[Whacked]

Bro - I need to thank you. This stuff is one of the YUMMIEST things I have had in ages! It blows regular EVCO out of the water!

Like you said, spoon it right out of the jar and it's like dessert! It's like comparing a filet mignon to a burger.

No clue how what they do to this stuff b/c it's only ingredient is coconut but man this stuff tastes amazing!

I also just bought this too! (from web site) - cant wait to try. http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/cacao-bliss

Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......

With 5 of those carbs being fiber

http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/coconut-butter

 

[mkretz]

ive never seen cocoa butter where do u find it?

 

[mkretz]

can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?

 

[ssbackwards]

can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?

looks liek only online has it.. That artisan link i believe has it.

This chocolate bar is BANANAs. Seriously. When im done with this batch im going to try strawberry protein powder instead of vanilla to see how it tastes.

you can also add shaved coconut, or almonds in there for a little different texture, lots to do with it. Ill probably end up adding som flax seed for some crunch.

 

[Whacked]

Amazon.com or Whole Foods

can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?

I still need to buy cacao and cocoa butter

looks liek only online has it.. That artisan link i believe has it.

This chocolate bar is BANANAs. Seriously. When im done with this batch im going to try strawberry protein powder instead of vanilla to see how it tastes.

you can also add shaved coconut, or almonds in there for a little different texture, lots to do with it. Ill probably end up adding som flax seed for some crunch.

 

[ssbackwards]

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

Cacao Butter, and other things...

 

[Whacked]

I could easily go broke on that site

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

Cacao Butter, and other things...

 

[ssbackwards]

livesuperfoods.com is another one.

 

[ssbackwards]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.4489/abstract?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=


[h=3]Abstract[/h]

BACKGROUND: Mulberries are a traditional edible food used to treat
hepatic disease. The anti-obesity and hypolipidemic effects of mulberry water
extracts (MWE) have attracted increasing interest. In the present study, MWE
were assessed for their hepatic lipid-lowering potential when administered in
fatty acid overload conditions in HepG2 cells.



RESULTS: We found that MWE significantly reduced lipid accumulation,
suppressed fatty acid synthesis, and stimulated fatty acid oxidation.
Furthermore, MWE also inhibited acetyl coenzyme A carboxylase activities by
stimulating adenosine monophosphate-activated protein kinase (AMPK). MWE
attenuated the expression of sterol regulatory element-binding protein-1
(SREBP-1) and its target molecules, such as fatty acid synthase. Similar results
were also measured in the expressions of enzymes involved in triglyceride and
cholesterol biosyntheses including glycerol-3-phosphate acyltransferase,
3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA reductase, and SREBP-2. In contrast, the
lipolytic enzyme expression of peroxisome proliferator activated receptor α and
carnitine palmitoyltransferase-1 were increased.



CONCLUSIONS: Our study suggests that the hypolipidemic effects of MWE
occur via phosphorylation of AMPK and inhibition of lipid biosynthesis.
Therefore, the mulberry extract may be active in the prevention of fatty liver.
Copyright © 2011 Society of Chemical Industry

 

[Torobestia]

I'll have to look into this coconut butter. At first I kind of liked EVCO, but now it instantly activates my gag reflex. And this is from someone who loves coconuts. I just can't put down straight oil, even EVOO. So this sounds right up my alley. Thanks for the tip, guys!

 

[ISU152]

Macadamia nut oil is where it's at