Muscle without fat?

[Mmyamahar6]

Im 6 feet tall and weigh 160 my goal for now is to hit two hundred can I do this without putting on fat or do I have to bulk then strip I like my six pack alot so im
Hoping that you guys have some good news

[EasyEJL]

you face a choice. either you can gain that weight pretty slowly, 1-2lbs a month tops and not add noticeable fat. Or you can shoot for gaining more and add some significant amount of fat with it.

[rochabp]

its up to you, 1000 cals, of oatmeal or 1000 cals of pizza

[Teddy21]

What EasyEJL said is basically what it comes down to, it really depends how anti bad weight you are.

If you are very anti, start adding 200 to 400 calories per week to your maintenance. Try and make this from a protein source where possible. If you gain more than 1-2 pounds in a week you are over eating and will be gaining fat, if so knock the calories back by 200-400. When you stop gaining strength and size, add another 200-400, repeat. You have to be mighty patient to lean bulk tbh, its not for everyone, including myself.

Make sure your macros are balanced, between .4g - .6g of fat per pound of body weight, 1g - 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight, closer to the top end of the targets whilst bulking. You need fat, do not avoid it because you are aiming for lean gains. It balances hormones and provides a slow release energy source, just make sure they are good fats.

[OrganicShadow]

Yup. Cant have one without the other unless your using some of those special vitamins out there. There IS some potential for having gains with negligible wet weight accumulating but its a very very slow growth process. To some degree it doesnt matter what you eat - oatmeal or pizza - 1,000 extra calories is 1,000 extra calories and your gonna pack away somewhere.

Just be sure to keep your cardio in, get those carbs in on training days and cut em down on off days. Keep active, eat clean, train heavy, have a cheat meal 1-2 times a week and your good! And try to keep that cheat meal semi-clean: damage control.

[JudoJosh]

Bad advice in my opinion shadow. 1000 cals of sugar or fat on top of someone's maintenance or macro allowance will result in heavy amounts of bad weight, whereas protein or carbs can be used much more productively by the body. Calories are the primary concern in regards to weight loss or gain but what they consist of comes an important second.

You do realize that 1000 calories of sugar is essentially the same as 1000 calories of carbs right? (carbs=sugar) and why would 1000 excess calories from fat intake lead to more weight gain than 1000 calories of excess protein intake?

[mattrag]

You do realize that 1000 calories of sugar is essentially the same as 1000 calories of carbs right? (carbs=sugar) and why would 1000 excess calories from fat intake lead to more weight gain than 1000 calories of excess protein intake?

Well there is the effect of fructose metabolism in the liver producing more triglycerides. But that's all dependent on the activity level and overall caloric intake

[bashman]

its up to you, 1000 cals, of oatmeal or 1000 cals of pizza

[OrganicShadow]

You do realize that 1000 calories of sugar is essentially the same as 1000 calories of carbs right? (carbs=sugar) and why would 1000 excess calories from fat intake lead to more weight gain than 1000 calories of excess protein intake?

Thank you for saving me time. lol

[EasyEJL]

You do realize that 1000 calories of sugar is essentially the same as 1000 calories of carbs right? (carbs=sugar) and why would 1000 excess calories from fat intake lead to more weight gain than 1000 calories of excess protein intake?

The sugar would cause more gain actually

[psychotron]

What EasyEJL said is basically what it comes down to, it really depends how anti bad weight you are.

If you are very anti, start adding 200 to 400 calories per week to your maintenance. Try and make this from a protein source where possible. If you gain more than 1-2 pounds in a week you are over eating and will be gaining fat, if so knock the calories back by 200-400. When you stop gaining strength and size, add another 200-400, repeat. You have to be mighty patient to lean bulk tbh, its not for everyone, including myself.

Make sure your macros are balanced, between .4g - .6g of fat per pound of body weight, 1g - 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight, closer to the top end of the targets whilst bulking. You need fat, do not avoid it because you are aiming for lean gains. It balances hormones and provides a slow release energy source, just make sure they are good fats.

Great post!!

[AustrianOakJr]

The sugar would cause more gain actually

Only if you really want to split hairs and count the TEF of the protein over the sugar. But in the real world it doesnt really make a difference. IMOP, when lean bulking you have to be a bit more conscious of the glycemic load of larger meals because you are walking that line between maintenance and a very slight caloric surplus.

If you want to add very lean weight, you really dont want to see the scale move much at all if you are natural. We put on muscle at such a slow rate of gain that even a solid 1 pound per month will come with some fat gain. Realistically, a trained athlete (someone who is over their "newb gains") will put on 5-7 or so pounds per year of solid muscle. That might come with a couple extra pounds of water/glycogen....but as you reach your genetic potential for muscle mass, the law of diminishing returns really sets in. But take a look at 5 lbs of lean beef next time you go to the grocery and tell me you wouldnt be glad to add that to your frame!

My advice would be to find a nice balance of protein/carbs/fats that gives you good energy in the gym and throughout the day while your weight remains steady. Then begin SLOWLY adding carbs week by week to stoke your metabolic furnace while increasing your loads in the gym. Watch the scale and keep that rate of gain very slow.

UNless....you are a total newb in the gym. Then just eat your face off and train like an animal.

[EasyEJL]

With sugar I was specifically think ing about insulin spiking adding more fat

[AustrianOakJr]

With sugar I was specifically think ing about insulin spiking adding more fat

Or you could think about insulin spiking add more muscle!

[EasyEJL]

Or you could think about insulin spiking add more muscle!

250g of sugar will mostly add fat

[AustrianOakJr]

250g of sugar will mostly add fat

250g of calorie surplus sugar? Yes. But if its 250g of sugar at or below maintenance then, by definition, you wont be adding any fat. I dont know too many bodybuilders eating 250g of their carbs in straight sugar so its kinda a moot point.

[EasyEJL]

250g of calorie surplus sugar? Yes. But if its 250g of sugar at or below maintenance then, by definition, you wont be adding any fat. I dont know too many bodybuilders eating 250g of their carbs in straight sugar so its kinda a moot point.

No sadly you would still add fat below maintenance, and lose muscle. With sugar, not so much with other carbohydrates

[AustrianOakJr]

Assuming your deficit is not ridiculous, sufficient protein is there for maintenance and repair, and fat for hormonal stability.....you would not lose muscle simply because of your carb source.

[JudoJosh]

The sugar would cause more gain actually

Please read the post I quoted..

The statement I was responding to was

1000 cals of sugar or fat on top of someone's maintenance or macro allowance will result in heavy amounts of bad weight, whereas protein or carbs can be used much more productively by the body

From this we assume the individual is already eating calories at maintenance and are already hitting their macro-nutrient minimums. (i.e 0.8-2g protein/lb, .5g fat/lb) With total calorie intake netting neither gains or loss, or at maintenance, and with the individual already getting adequately enough dietary fat and protein intake then how does 1000 extra calories from protein not yield fat gain? Protein isnt magic.. if it isnt being used it will be stored just like any other macro-nutrient. The idea that sugar alone will make you fat is a little far fetched and I am a little confused reading this from you as I know you have posted this yourself many times before. There really isnt any "fat gaining" foods. One can get "cut" eating a snickers or having cake. 1000 extra calories are still 1000 extra calories. I can see the argument that spiking insulin throughout the day with sugar will lead to fat gain over maintaining stable insulin levels with protein intake but at the end of the day the calories are still EXTRA.

No sadly you would still add fat below maintenance, and lose muscle. With sugar, not so much with other carbohydrates

Absolutely someone can gain fat below maintenance!!!

The dogmas surrounding dietary fats and the idea of protein damaging kidneys leads people to eat these extremely high carbohydrate diets while also attempting to loose weight by taking in calories below maintenance and what is the result? The ever so popular "skinny fat" body type you see just about everywhere you look.

What you are forgetting AustrianOakJr is not everyone will take in their minimums of fat and protein intake. Overall calorie consumption will determine scale weight but what those calories consist of is what will determine body composition. If you take a person who calorie maintenance is at 2000 calories and put them on a 2000 diet that is high in carbs, low in protein and with fat almost non existent.. while the person might loose scale weight the ratio of body fat to lean muscles has the opportunity to change and you end up with a skinny-fat person. Recomp works both ways

[AustrianOakJr]

What you are forgetting AustrianOakJr is not everyone will take in their minimums of fat and protein intake. Overall calorie consumption will determine scale weight but what those calories consist of is what will determine body composition. If you take a person who calorie maintenance is at 2000 calories and put them on a 2000 diet that is high in carbs, low in protein and with fat almost non existent.. while the person might loose scale weight the ratio of body fat to lean muscles has the opportunity to change and you end up with a skinny-fat person. Recomp works both ways

Oh, I agree. Its certainly possible to re-comp going the wrong way. But I think you would have to be a total idiot to do it.

Somehow its seems like I keep getting into these theoretical discussions which really don't exist amongst bodybuilders and even general fitness enthusiasts. I dont think anyone was considering eating solely carbohydrates as their diet. That is why I specified in my reply "assuming the person is eating adequate protein and fat......" a high GI carb will not magically allow for a net positive storage of bodyfat. My main point is that carb source is really not super critical in a calorie deficit. *disclaimer - this does not mean I endorse eating pop rocks and cotton candy as a primary carb source while dieting.