my first ever bulk

[rza]

hi, im 13, male, 5 foot 4, 45 kg, and have a waist of about 26/28 inches.

i want to bulk up, as much muscle as possible, but then i want to get my weight down to 45kg again courtesy of losing fat weight, hopwfully ending up with a much nicer, defined body, with hopefully some inch loss too.

i dont really want to talk about diet, ive got that sorted, but i do want to talk about supplements. which ones would you recommend for as lean a bulk as possible, while also being suitable for a 13 year old, and are also garunteed for success, also i would apreciate it if you could tell me how much of each to use and whether i should still use them when i start to cut, and if so, how much of them.

also, please dont tell me i shouldnt think about this at my age. what i want makes me happy.

thanks alot.

 

[MidwestBeast]

i dont really want to talk about diet, ive got that sorted, but i do want to talk about supplements.

If you don't want to talk about diet, then I suggest you leave.

Eating more than maintenance = gaining weight
Eating less than maintenance = losing weight

There's your bulk.

Diet > Supplements

If you want to bulk, I just gave you your answer - eat more. All the supplements in the world won't help more than that.

 

[WorkingClass]

hi, im 13, male, 5 foot 4, 45 kg, and have a waist of about 26/28 inches.

i want to bulk up, as much muscle as possible, but then i want to get my weight down to 45kg again courtesy of losing fat weight, hopwfully ending up with a much nicer, defined body, with hopefully some inch loss too.

i dont really want to talk about diet, ive got that sorted, but i do want to talk about supplements. which ones would you recommend for as lean a bulk as possible, while also being suitable for a 13 year old, and are also garunteed for success, also i would apreciate it if you could tell me how much of each to use and whether i should still use them when i start to cut, and if so, how much of them.

also, please dont tell me i shouldnt think about this at my age. what i want makes me happy.

thanks alot.

You're sol then. You want advice? It's ALWAYS going to start with your diet. Beast basically told you everything you need to know. Forget supps. They are pretty much USELESS at your age except a multi and maybe a shake. Not to be a ****, but I have a real hard time believing that your diet is "sorted". EAT! Good luck!

 

[bla55]

Lol, at 13 if you need any supps it is the good ol' steakadrol, anaomelets, and halotaters.

There is absolutely no supplement that will really be a difference maker at that age, none whatsoever. You are peeing testosterone away at that stage, sh!t, you're probably sweating it away too with the amount that must be flowing through you at this point.

If anything, and if anything REALLY, a pre workout creatine of sorts. That's about it.

Aside from that, increase your fat consumption, get a lot of good fats in, that is nuts such as almonds, walnuts, pecans, etc. Eat lots of those on a daily basis (I eat about 4 fist full of them everyday, I suggest you eat more than that), increase your steak consumption, red meat has a lot of testosterone drivers that will help you. Eat lots of protein and some sweet potatoes won't hurt either.

No supps though.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Lol, at 13 if you need any supps it is the good ol' steakadrol, anaomelets, and halotaters.

Okay, can we convince an existing company to make these or just get a new company to market this? It would be fantastic:

The Anabolic Food Series

Everything has a name like this and comes in awesome packaging that either has pulled pork in a protein tub or eggs in a plastic pill packaging where you have to pop them out...you get the idea.

Then, maybe all the young kids would jump on them and get what they actually need.

If it didn't seem like a really d!ck thing to do at the root of it, I'd star this company and sell over-priced anabolic food to skinny teens. :laugh:

 

[rza]

so some creatine? any reliable brands? also, would whey be a good idea, or just unnecessary if im having the creatine? and would they be the only ones i should look into?

 

[MidwestBeast]

so some creatine? any reliable brands? also, would whey be a good idea, or just unnecessary if im having the creatine? and would they be the only ones i should look into?

I wouldn't even mess with creatine yet (not that it's dangerous; just not necessary at your age).

Whey = food

(essentially)

Whey is just preferred because of the absorption rate (digested more quickly than say chicken or beef; though they're all ultimately protein/calories).

You could get some, but I'd honestly save your money. Don't piss it away now, even if you have it. Stash it for a day when you can actually take more advantage of this stuff.

There are certain bodybuilders that swear off whey, too, and only stick to whole foods (granted a lot of them juice, too, but that's not entirely relevant).




Bottom line, stick to good foods. Sounds cliche, but it is for a reason.

 

[Steelwolf]

Seriously bro look into getting your diet actually straightened out. I doubt your macros are in good shape and exact per the day. I doubt your timing is really dead on being your age. If it is more power to you, but I really dont think it is. Supplements are just that to supplement good training and diet. Lets see what your diet looks like and then we can go from there.

 

[rza]

what weight do you think i should i should go up to, remember the purpose is to get down to 45 kg again, so i dont want to have to lose muscle to get there, just fat. also, how many calories do you think i should take in to get there (i take in about 2000 a day balanced throughout the week).

 

[WorkingClass]

what weight do you think i should i should go up to, remember the purpose is to get down to 45 kg again, so i dont want to have to lose muscle to get there, just fat. also, how many calories do you think i should take in to get there (i take in about 2000 a day balanced throughout the week).

200 cals a day? You DEFINITELY don't have your diet sorted like you think. You need to at LEAST double that to make any progress. This is a good example of why at your age you need to focus on getting your **** straight BEFORE you contemplate any supps. Well that, AND you're a ****ing hormone crazed monster at your age lol. You get 1-1.5 grams of protein, 3-4000 calories and try and double your body weight in carbs daily and you should be able to pack on a TON of muscle. Also I wouldn't worry about cutting fat at this point. Your metabolism should be more than efficient enough to keep fat down.

 

[urbanski]

he probably meant 2K on average daily during any given week. you cant live on 200/day anyway.

so you want to bulk so you can then lost fat back down to 45kg? how much sense does that make? you cant bulk without gaining lean and fat, and you cant cut only fat keeping every ounce of lean. decide what you want then come back with a diet plan you've researched and we can help you.

 

[WorkingClass]

he probably meant 2K on average daily during any given week. you cant live on 200/day anyway.

so you want to bulk so you can then lost fat back down to 45kg? how much sense does that make? you cant bulk without gaining lean and fat, and you cant cut only fat keeping every ounce of lean. decide what you want then come back with a diet plan you've researched and we can help you.

I meant 2000. Typo. The post was mainly to make a point though.

 

[Steelwolf]

We need to even see what you are eating.. what does balanced mean? Balanced for one person is not balanced for another.

 

[CountryLiftin]

some 13 year olds might be ready for supps, but at 5 4 and however much 45 damn kgs is, idt you quite are. take your time. not only can lifting to much and too heavy at a young age screw with bone and body development, your friends will all accuse you of using when your freaking huge at 16-17. anyways. eat a good clean diet, and eat alot. workout hard, and get a good routine. you will learn alot about yourself, how you react to diff foods and diets and exercises, and then in a few years you will be ready for some starter supps, and understand alot better how to manipulate every part of your life to make your goals happen. that is the best benefit. so go eat and lift! goodluck

 

[DieselAddict]

water boss, no joke that will help you eat more. Drink a bunch of water and eat eat eat. it sounds weird but drinking a bunch of water keeps your stomach from shrinking up when you aren't eating so you will start to be able to eat more. eat well though. steak, chicken, rice, greens, colorful vegs and fruit and a butt load of nuts. only time i would say you would maybe need protein in a shake is if you are hungry in the middle of the night and mom isnt around to cook you something lol

 

[Docmattic]

Hey dude. Just concentrate on your diet. I started at your age. At 15 i was bench pressing 100kg, Courtesy of all the testosterone pumping through my system. And my diet was crap.
I had so much test i got gyno... (Doc called it breast buds). She told me not to worry about it and that it would go away.

My point...you have so much test its nearly like being on juice. If you have a good diet you should be fine. Becuase your at school, protien shakes would be okay becuase they are convenient.

Try this diet out: At your weight you will smash on size.

Breakfast
1 x Protein shake
1 x bowl of rolled oats
½ x cup sultanas 4 x egg white omelet

Midmorning
1 small bowl brown pasta or basmati rice
1 x 125g tin tuna in spring or chicken (200g)

Lunch
1 x small bowl brown pasta or basmati rice
1 x 125g tin tuna in spring or chicken (200g)

Pre workout
(not less than 1hr before training)
1 x bowl of fruit
1x cup basmati rice
1x 200gm diet yogurt

Post workout
(immediately after training)
1 x serve of Protein
1x Banana

Dinner
1 x 250gm lean veal or chicken
1 x baked sweet potato
lots of vegetables

Supper
1 x Serve of protein
1 x handful walnuts

Before Bed
2 x table spoons of diet cottage cheese
12 x almonds

If you dont want to put on too much fat..swap the rice and pasta for fresh vegtables on non workout days.

 

[CountryLiftin]

true being young you have alot of test, but at 13 maybe not yet. everyone is different. but Idk how u got gyno lol thanks funky.

Anyways, yea. I already said all I had to say up there. I just wanted to tell u that you gettin gyno is weird.

 

[Docmattic]

true being young you have alot of test, but at 13 maybe not yet. everyone is different. but Idk how u got gyno lol thanks funky.

Anyways, yea. I already said all I had to say up there. I just wanted to tell u that you gettin gyno is weird.

Yeh, me either, but i went though a lot of **** at that age, maybee the combination of everything just made me get it. (i was in a major accident, pronounced dead, then came back)...I know its unusual, i was just explaining my point about the test levels being high when it comes.

 

[rza]

what weight would you recommend getting up to?

 

[Steelwolf]

what weight would you recommend getting up to?

It's not about getting up to a weight per say but about getting good quality lean gains while minimizing body fat. I'd rather go up 5 lbs and gain one pound of fat than go up 10 lbs and go up 5 lbs of fat. Yeah it's one extra pound of muscle but you will lose a lot when dieting down.

 

[rza]

It's not about getting up to a weight per say but about getting good quality lean gains while minimizing body fat. I'd rather go up 5 lbs and gain one pound of fat than go up 10 lbs and go up 5 lbs of fat. Yeah it's one extra pound of muscle but you will lose a lot when dieting down.

yeah, i realise this. is there any way way of setting a target to aim for? like, 'once i put on this much muscle then i can start cutting'?

by the way, where can you buy those body fat measuring things (callipers i think)?

 

[MidwestBeast]

yeah, i realise this. is there any way way of setting a target to aim for? like, 'once i put on this much muscle then i can start cutting'?

by the way, where can you buy those body fat measuring things (callipers i think)?

Don't fall into the trap of "gaining to X weight" and then "cutting to Y weight." I fell into that trap before and it's not ideal. Basically, you focus so much on the number, that you get a lot more fat gain than necessary. Just focus on growing and when you feel yourself plateau or feel like you're getting too much fat, switch gears.

And calipers are something you can easily find online to purchase :yup:

 

[rza]

Don't fall into the trap of "gaining to X weight" and then "cutting to Y weight." I fell into that trap before and it's not ideal. Basically, you focus so much on the number, that you get a lot more fat gain than necessary. Just focus on growing and when you feel yourself plateau or feel like you're getting too much fat, switch gears.

And calipers are something you can easily find online to purchase :yup:

right, ok, i'll try to do that. thanks.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, i realise this. is there any way way of setting a target to aim for? like, 'once i put on this much muscle then i can start cutting'?

A better approach might be to just do it in 8 week sprints. 8 weeks bulking, 8 weeks cutting and repeat till you look like you want to in the mirror.

 

[soontobbeast]

200 cals a day? You DEFINITELY don't have your diet sorted like you think. You need to at LEAST double that to make any progress. This is a good example of why at your age you need to focus on getting your **** straight BEFORE you contemplate any supps. Well that, AND you're a ****ing hormone crazed monster at your age lol. You get 1-1.5 grams of protein, 3-4000 calories and try and double your body weight in carbs daily and you should be able to pack on a TON of muscle. Also I wouldn't worry about cutting fat at this point. Your metabolism should be more than efficient enough to keep fat down.

sorry you're wrong, though.

at 5'4'', he doesnt need 4000 calories. if he eats that, i promise he will gain TONS of fat unless hes a RAGING ectomorph. i remember when i was 13. i was the fattest of my life. my hormones didnt do me any favors.

 

[WorkingClass]

sorry you're wrong, though.

at 5'4'', he doesnt need 4000 calories. if he eats that, i promise he will gain TONS of fat unless hes a RAGING ectomorph. i remember when i was 13. i was the fattest of my life. my hormones didnt do me any favors.

We're going to disagree on that. Well 4000 may be nonsuccessive. When I was 13 I probably wasn't eating quite that many cals, but I was close and I was a skinny mofo all the way into my late teens/early 20's. I was taller than that and EXTREMELY active though. Sports and martial arts almost year round. I don't see him actually eating that much really, but its a good number to shoot for. People really don't seem to get how important eating is to growth.

 

[Steelwolf]

I'm 205 pretty lean and dont even bulk at 4000 cals.

 

[rza]

to the guy that said bulk for 8 weeks then cut for 8 weeks and repeat as needed, thanks, i think i'll do that.

and also, how many calories do you all think i should aim to get in?

 

[Steelwolf]

to the guy that said bulk for 8 weeks then cut for 8 weeks and repeat as needed, thanks, i think i'll do that.

and also, how many calories do you all think i should aim to get in?

We cant just give you a level of calories. I hate how people go just take in xxxxxx. It depends on your training level and intensity, what you do during the rest of the day, and your body type as well. Diets are not cookie cutter. I would never give any of my clients a cookie cutter diet and just say say 200lbs 4000 calories 25% 50% 25% etc etc. I am not a calorie counter as well. I count macros in simple foods as I learned to do from shelby starnes and I do that with all of my clients as well. It gets the results (my self and my clients are walking proof) and it saves the crazyness of counting every calorie. On that point macros are more important than calories you need to get the right macros in vs 2000 calories. So give us more information about you so that we can give you an idea. I dont think any of us will just flat out write you a diet... that would be unfair to my clients for one thing, but we can help get you on the right path by giving you an idea of macros to shoot for etc etc.

 

[EasyEJL]

The only way to tell is to figure out what your maintenance is. the calculators vary a good bit from reality. I'd start at something like 3000 for the bulking part, and maybe 2000-2200 for the cutting periods, and adjust from there. Thats assuming you are pretty active.

 

[Steelwolf]

The only way to tell is to figure out what your maintenance is. the calculators vary a good bit from reality. I'd start at something like 3000 for the bulking part, and maybe 2000-2200 for the cutting periods, and adjust from there. Thats assuming you are pretty active.

Shelby has me bulking at aprox 2700 as we only count macros thats my guess from adding in trace cals. I am 205 and about 12% so I really dont think he needs that much. I am also a meso

 

[rza]

to the guy that said 3000 calories for bulking, but that assuming i'm pretty active, what would you class as pretty active? i go to the gym 3 times a week, 6 mins on bike (i guess about medium intensity), 5 minutes running (again, i think about medium), when i'm at home i do pretty much no exercise, except for about a kilometre walk every day, when i'm at school the same, but punctuated by random bursts of running around), i would guess i'm not ''pretty active''. finally, if i took in too many calories, would i just put on a load of fat?

 

[JComp]

Im an extreme ecto, and to bulk need alot of calories to bulk, I also have a active job most the time. For bulking im usually on 4500 calories. and still put on very little fat. Ive never done a cut or anything, just eat like a normal person and end up leaning out.

 

[WorkingClass]

I'm 205 pretty lean and dont even bulk at 4000 cals.

That must be nice bro. If I even THINK of eating less than atleast 3500 I start dropping ****ing weight lol

 

[Steelwolf]

That must be nice bro. If I even THINK of eating less than atleast 3500 I start dropping ****ing weight lol

I always figured I needed more but shelby has me pretty low and I'm gaining pretty well. Mind you I have also double day workouts every day

 

[WorkingClass]

I always figured I needed more but shelby has me pretty low and I'm gaining pretty well. Mind you I have also double day workouts every day

Interesting. I cleaned up my diet quite a bit a couple years ago. Just wasn't making the progress I felt I should be. I have to admit, eating cleaner has given me great gains with probably a 5-700 calorie cut from what I used to eat. Could be some method to your mayhem :dance:

 

[Steelwolf]

Interesting. I cleaned up my diet quite a bit a couple years ago. Just wasn't making the progress I felt I should be. I have to admit, eating cleaner has given me great gains with probably a 5-700 calorie cut from what I used to eat. Could be some method to your mayhem :dance:

I really think the eating clean makes a difference. before shelby I was not the cleanest dieter. Now have I have a crap meal probably once every other week durring off season and I do just fine.

 

[rza]

about the 3000 calories thing, does anyone think that will make me put on fat (when i say that, i know i'll put on some fat, but i mean more than that)? i take in about 2000 calories a day, while doing the cardio that i mentioned earlier, and this maintains my weight.

 

[WorkingClass]

I really think the eating clean makes a difference. before shelby I was not the cleanest dieter. Now have I have a crap meal probably once every other week durring off season and I do just fine.

It has for me. More than anything is just the way I feel. Rather than just packing in the protein and calories from all sources makes me more lethargic. Even more so since I've cleaned up the diet. I can definitely tell the difference now if I go to a fast food joint. Takes 4 double cheese burgers and 4 mcchickens to make a meal, I feel like ****, I'm hungry within 40 minutes and I have no energy. Waste of ten bucks. That's the case with most junk food now. You don't realize how bad that stuff really is for you until your body isn't used to it anymore. Like a drug

 

[Steelwolf]

It has for me. More than anything is just the way I feel. Rather than just packing in the protein and calories from all sources makes me more lethargic. Even more so since I've cleaned up the diet. I can definitely tell the difference now if I go to a fast food joint. Takes 4 double cheese burgers and 4 mcchickens to make a meal, I feel like ****, I'm hungry within 40 minutes and I have no energy. Waste of ten bucks. That's the case with most junk food now. You don't realize how bad that stuff really is for you until your body isn't used to it anymore. Like a drug

Exactly I believe it is more about the calories than the macros then comes the timing. I am not a big fan of the IF after listening to Layne Norton speak, but I think it is most important macros followed by timing to really do it all.

 

[EasyEJL]

about the 3000 calories thing, does anyone think that will make me put on fat (when i say that, i know i'll put on some fat, but i mean more than that)? i take in about 2000 calories a day, while doing the cardio that i mentioned earlier, and this maintains my weight.

probably go with 2500 then to start

 

[rza]

probably go with 2500 then to start

rightio.

i am faced with a new problem however. when i started this thread, i was 13 and waiting to be 14 and join the proper gym. now i am 14, and i've just joined the proper gym, but i've been told i have to be 16 to have free rein on what machines i go on. basically this means i can't do any free weights and i'm restricted to the following machines:

treadmill
bike
x trainer
stepper
rower
stationary (or sitting, can't remember what it's called) rower
leg extension
leg curl
both leg presses
shoulder press
chest press
lat pull down

and i'm not 100% sure if i'm allowed to do the lat pull down. there might be one or two machines i've forgotten, but i really don't think so. what do you all think,would the bulk (and subsequent cut) still have any effect on my physique, or is it now pointless in every way?

 

[EasyEJL]

Machines particularly during the first 6 months of working out still are fine. I personally do very little with free weights anymore as I have a much larger tendency to injure myself or just get joint pain when I do. Sure I can flat press 100 maybe 110lb dumbbells, but I can also tweak my shoulder so badly in the process if things go off a little that it just isn't worth it to me

 

[rza]

Machines particularly during the first 6 months of working out still are fine. I personally do very little with free weights anymore as I have a much larger tendency to injure myself or just get joint pain when I do. Sure I can flat press 100 maybe 110lb dumbbells, but I can also tweak my shoulder so badly in the process if things go off a little that it just isn't worth it to me

so then everything can go ahead as planned?

and by the way, should i expect to start gaining weight immediately, and if i'm not, should i increase calories? also, if i am gaining weight, but then i plateau, should i increase calories? and finally, if i'm laying down too much fat, should i decrease calories?

 

[Steelwolf]

so then everything can go ahead as planned?

and by the way, should i expect to start gaining weight immediately, and if i'm not, should i increase calories? also, if i am gaining weight, but then i plateau, should i increase calories? and finally, if i'm laying down too much fat, should i decrease calories?

I would not always increase calories as much as play with the macros. Calories are important, but the way you are using them is the most important. The type of carbs proteins and fats are very important as well as how many. It is not just about calories.

 

[rza]

I would not always increase calories as much as play with the macros. Calories are important, but the way you are using them is the most important. The type of carbs proteins and fats are very important as well as how many. It is not just about calories.

yeah, i know macros are important, but i have enough trouble keeping my dad onside as it is, and i think any more messing would be a bit much, and anyway some people consider calories more important: its kinda relative. thanks all the same though.

anyway, i REALLY need my questions answering.

 

[GeekPoop]

yeah, i know macros are important, but i have enough trouble keeping my dad onside as it is, and i think any more messing would be a bit much, and anyway some people consider calories more important: its kinda relative. thanks all the same though.

anyway, i REALLY need my questions answering.

macros > calories

so what are you exactly asking?

 

[rza]

macros > calories

so what are you exactly asking?

am i meant to start gaining weight immediately? if i am gaining weight but then stop, is there a problem, and would that problem be solved by upping calories? and if im gaining too much fat, should i cut calories?

 

[rza]

hello.

i really need to know the answers. ASAP.

 

[Steelwolf]

hello.

i really need to know the answers. ASAP.

I feel it is more about how you portion your macros and calories are are a close second so sadly I am unable to help you with what you are looking for.