Ectomorph Needs Help

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    Ectomorph Needs Help


    Hey, I've been trying to gain mass for quite some time now. I've increased my strength quite a bit, but I would like to start seeing some thickness increase. I started out pretty weak...I'm still weak but I'm increasing weight slowly over time.

    I've been doing the 10/8/6/15 Total Body workout.

    The progress I've made so far goes like this:
    Bench: Start-135(Trouble @ 10 reps) Now-185 (8 reps)
    Tricep Rope Pulldown: Start-20 Now-50
    DB Shoulder Machine: Start-60 Now-120
    Lat Pulldown: Start-100 Now-130
    Bicep Curl: Start-45 Now-75
    Leg Press: Start: 2 plates on each side Now: 3.

    I've been doing total body workouts/1 exercise per muscle group as stated in Suncloud's thread, I feel as if it's been working. I've been doing it M/W/F and I generally don't do it in supersets because I enjoy being at the gym for a long period of time. The thing is, I still don't gain mass, but I DO gain strength.

    I am pretty sure my problem is my diet. It looks something like this.
    Breakfast - 4 Eggs/Shake
    Pre WO - Shake/Ragnarok
    Post WO - Shake
    Lunch - Chicken/Tuna
    Dinner - Shake/What ever is made (usually healthy.)

    So if you guys can, please help line up a proper diet.

    Also, is it okay if I work out M/T/W/T/F? I'd like to go every day, but I've read that ectomorphs need more time for recovery..but I think I'd make more progress if I went every day..and if you guys can could you suggest workouts that would be better to gain mass? And, is the TOTAL BODY workout REALLY the BEST way to gain mass as an ecto?

    Oh, also, supplements I'm on include:
    -Ragnarok
    -Creatine (I don't take it cause the ragnarok has it in it...?)
    -Universal Real Gains
    -ZMA
    -I also have some Activate Extreme that I haven't used yet...

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    Body fat is about 8-9%.
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    well, the total body workout worked best for me. i think your diet needs some serious work though. from what i see, 3 meals per day and 2 shakes may be too little for you. you could try adding in peanut butter or string cheese whenever you're not eating meals. drinking half a gallon of whole milk throughout the day will help as well.

    as far as gains go, 2 pounds per month is about what you can expect with your diet on point, and i can tell you off the bat, that you're not eating enough.

    if you are desperate to hit the gym more often, you can do supplemental work on tuesday and thursday like calves/abs/hamstrings/forearms/rear tri's. if you just have to hit the gym more often, there's always "west side for skinny bastards", link to follow : http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...kinny_bastards , though i'm not sure if its more volume.

    if i were to rewrite your diet for you, it would look more like
    breakfast - 4 eggs, bowl of oatmeal or granola
    pre workout - shake
    post workout - shake
    lunch - chicken/tuna with brown rice
    snack - peanut butter or string cheese
    snack - peanut butter or string cheese
    dinner - whatever is made
    bedtime - can of tuna or chicken
    and drink some whole milk throughout your day

    i really think its the calories you're lacking. without knowing your portion size its hard to tell though. anything i can do to help, please let me know. best of luck to you.
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    When you say bowl of oatmeal, can I actually cook the damn stuff? I really don't like the whole idea of eating "dry" oats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe View Post
    When you say bowl of oatmeal, can I actually cook the damn stuff? I really don't like the whole idea of eating "dry" oats.
    of course
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    Could you also suggest better exercises to gain mass? I know some of the stuff I do isn't the "best" way to gain mass in that specific muscle group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe View Post
    Could you also suggest better exercises to gain mass? I know some of the stuff I do isn't the "best" way to gain mass in that specific muscle group.
    hrm... quick list would be found somewhere around the middle of the following link :
    The Ectomorph Workout

    EDIT : copied it over


    legs - squats, hack squats, leg press, front squats
    back - sumo deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts (deads with dumbells), romanian deadlifts
    upper back (and biceps) - chins, reverse grip chins, pull ups, wide grip pull ups, bent over rows
    chest - bench, incline bench, chest dips (head down, body forward, legs back)
    triceps - close grip bench, dips (head up, body straight, legs straight), skullcrushers (while laying on a bench)
    delts - military press, upright rows, clean and press, push press
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    So...Suncloud, according to your thread, you would be doing 8 reps for EVERY set on monday, 10 reps for EVERY set on wednesday, and 6 reps for EVERY set on friday, instead of 10/8/6/15 every day?

    It'd be like this? Correct me if I'm mistaken.

    Monday - 8/8/8/8
    Wednesday - 10/10/10/10
    Friday -6/6/6/6

    Monday:

    Bench Press - 8/8/8/8
    DB Shoulder Press - 8/8/8/8
    Tricep Rope Pulldown - 8/8/8/8
    BB Curls - 8/8/8/8
    Seated Row - 8/8/8/8
    Leg Press - 8/8/8/8

    Wednesday:

    DB Flat Bench(or incline bench..?): 10/10/10/10
    Upright Rows: 10/10/10/10
    Skullcrushers: 10/10/10/10
    Hammer Curls: 10/10/10/10
    Bent Over Rows: 10/10/10/10
    Leg Curls: 10/10/10/10

    Friday:

    Bench Press: 6/6/6/6
    Military Press: 6/6/6/6
    Tricep Straight-Bar Pulldown: 6/6/6/6
    EZ Bar Preacher Curls: 6/6/6/6
    Deadlift: 6/6/6/6
    Wide Grip Pullups: 6/6/6/6
    Abs
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    yep. its a lot easier than it looks, partially because almost nobody goes up in weights as often as they can, and people rarely use the 2.5 pounders - its always by 5 lbs per side.

    if 10/8/6/15 is treating you well though, you may want to stick with it. its really up to you.
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    I have a friend who is an endomorph and he's one of those guys who just came out "strong." He continues to tell me that the routine and diet i am following will only cut me up, and not help me gain any mass. He says I should only be doing 3 sets of 3-5 reps with extremely heavy weight to gain mass...he also says that 3 days in the gym is not enough? Even if you AREN'T an ectomorph aren't you supposed to take rest days? I was under the impression that everybody should let their muscles recover fully by taken rest days...

    By the way, I benched 200 today 6 times!! Haha it's ***** weight, but I was pretty proud of myself :P

    EDIT: Also, I'm dying to increase the size of my chest. Can I just workout my chest 5 days a week lol? Or is that overtraining? Say on tues and thurs I did DB chest workouts..? I need this damn thing to get bigger haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe View Post
    I have a friend who is an endomorph and he's one of those guys who just came out "strong." He continues to tell me that the routine and diet i am following will only cut me up, and not help me gain any mass. He says I should only be doing 3 sets of 3-5 reps with extremely heavy weight to gain mass...he also says that 3 days in the gym is not enough? Even if you AREN'T an ectomorph aren't you supposed to take rest days? I was under the impression that everybody should let their muscles recover fully by taken rest days...

    By the way, I benched 200 today 6 times!! Haha it's ***** weight, but I was pretty proud of myself :P

    EDIT: Also, I'm dying to increase the size of my chest. Can I just workout my chest 5 days a week lol? Or is that overtraining? Say on tues and thurs I did DB chest workouts..? I need this damn thing to get bigger haha.
    everyone is different here. being an endomorph makes gaining size easy. ecto's aren't quite so lucky. the upside, is there's very little cutting to do (loosing fat). doing the workout i listed above, you'll hit chest 3 times per week, so you'll see progress.

    now we know that growth hormone is the second best muscle builder, and we know that growth hormone is a great fat burner. we also know that GH levels are raised significantly by doing supersets, and minimal breaks. testosterone is lower reps (6ish). by doing a day of 6 reps to stimulate testosterone, and 8 reps to stimulate mass, the 10 reps will boost GH levels, you've got everything working for you.


    the next thing i'm about to say is speculation. it is my hypothesis that ecto's have a higher GH level than any other body type, which is why we stay so lean. that's the ideas behind my workout. thoughts?
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    I like that idea of 8-10-6 mon-wed-fri

    I'm going to switch over to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe View Post
    I like that idea of 8-10-6 mon-wed-fri

    I'm going to switch over to that.
    remember that 2 pounds per month is about the maximum you can gain naturally. i know it feels like its slow going, but 25 pounds per year ain't bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    remember that 2 pounds per month is about the maximum you can gain naturally. i know it feels like its slow going, but 25 pounds per year ain't bad
    2 lbs a month is enough for me. 25 lbs a year is great!
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    bump
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe View Post
    Hey, I've been trying to gain mass for quite some time now. I've increased my strength quite a bit, but I would like to start seeing some thickness increase. I started out pretty weak...I'm still weak but I'm increasing weight slowly over time.

    I've been doing the 10/8/6/15 Total Body workout.

    The progress I've made so far goes like this:
    Bench: Start-135(Trouble @ 10 reps) Now-185 (8 reps)
    Tricep Rope Pulldown: Start-20 Now-50
    DB Shoulder Machine: Start-60 Now-120
    Lat Pulldown: Start-100 Now-130
    Bicep Curl: Start-45 Now-75
    Leg Press: Start: 2 plates on each side Now: 3.

    I've been doing total body workouts/1 exercise per muscle group as stated in Suncloud's thread, I feel as if it's been working. I've been doing it M/W/F and I generally don't do it in supersets because I enjoy being at the gym for a long period of time. The thing is, I still don't gain mass, but I DO gain strength.

    I am pretty sure my problem is my diet. It looks something like this.
    Breakfast - 4 Eggs/Shake
    Pre WO - Shake/Ragnarok
    Post WO - Shake
    Lunch - Chicken/Tuna
    Dinner - Shake/What ever is made (usually healthy.)

    So if you guys can, please help line up a proper diet.

    Also, is it okay if I work out M/T/W/T/F? I'd like to go every day, but I've read that ectomorphs need more time for recovery..but I think I'd make more progress if I went every day..and if you guys can could you suggest workouts that would be better to gain mass? And, is the TOTAL BODY workout REALLY the BEST way to gain mass as an ecto?

    Oh, also, supplements I'm on include:
    -Ragnarok
    -Creatine (I don't take it cause the ragnarok has it in it...?)
    -Universal Real Gains
    -ZMA
    -I also have some Activate Extreme that I haven't used yet...
    You need to eat much more food bro. My wife's current diet has more calories than that, and she is trying to lose weight.
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    this is my routine, and i think its near perfect
    It is divided into three weeks, each week a different rep range. 12 total sets per body part

    Week 1 reps 3 to 6 mainly barbell work.
    Mon Chest
    Tues Back
    Wed OFF
    Thurs - Legs with Deads/shoulders
    Fri -Arms or OFF
    Sat - OFF or Arms (reverse of friday)
    Sun - OFF

    Week 2, same routine but reps 8 - 12 and different exercises mix of DB and BB

    week 3, same routine different exercises reps 15 to 20 mainly DB and machines

    this has worked amazing for me.
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    I hope this helps..............

    1. don't overtrain, you can workout every other day. (your body grows when your resting)
    2. screw cardio
    3. stay hydrated, drink a gallon of water a day
    4. to bulk up your gonna get a little fat, (but i take it your naturally lean the fat will come off easily if you want it to
    5. eating is more important then anything you do right now

    I follow these guidelines and im not that fat, im 5'10 230lbs mebe at 12 percent bodyfat
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    I have the same bodytype. For me to progress i really have to force myself to eat. I try to always have some pre-cooked steel cut oats in the fridge. and i make my own weight gaining shakes with flax oil, oats, banana, peanut butter, and protein. This has been what has helped me to bulk up.
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    Please prove me wrong but throughout my research and the big guys ive talked to, full body workouts arn't that useful for putting on mass. Sure, bench press, squats, and deadlifts are excellent for putting on mass and releasing testosterone, but they should be added into a muscle group a day workout. Alternating between push and pull. And no low rep strength gains, more so higher 10 rep range, but no more than that except for occasional muscle confusion. Also, its better to keep your workouts short around 45 mins, instead of 1 hour and 30 mins which a full body workout requires. This way you can seperate your muscle groups and workout everyday. This is to keep calorie burning low, and increase the amount of time you have to rest for your muscles to repair.

    Here is the type of workout im talking about:

    Monday: Chest - Flat bench 5 sets, 10 reps. incline flyes 5X10, dumbell pullovers 5X10. strip the weight if you need so that you can consistently do 10 till failure.

    So typically there are 3 or 4 exercises per day, that will take up about 45 mins.

    You can fill in the other exercises, but remember to do deadlifts with back, and squats with legs. Start your day with the heavier exercises and move down to the isolated ones.

    Tuesday: Biceps, Forearms
    Wednesday: Shoulders, Triceps
    Thursday: Back
    Friday: Legs
    Saturday: Core

    Yep, thats 6 days a week, if you want you can add core to your leg day and go 5 days a week, as legs don't need too many exercises in a day to tear down and repair, they get sore very easily.

    Please if anyone finds anything wrong with this let me know.


    Also, right after your workout, mix half maltodextrin half dextrose, a tiny bit of sodium, and protein isolate. This will replenish glycogen stores in the muscle tissue which becomes depleted after weight resistance. The protein is there just to keep your protein pool full. Its more important to restore glycogen than protein after a workout, it will keep you from entering a catabolic state.

    Also, I highly suggest peanut butter, bread, creatine, and juice before a workout. Excellent carbs and calories that you will need to endure 5 sets of 10 reps till failure. The 5th set at 10 till failure with proper form burns in a really good way, and the pump is incredible.

    Good Luck
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    i dont have a problem with that philosophy of full body at all. i hate them with a passion. i actually lose strength while doing them. i never suggest them to anybody. even a newb. if a newb wants a good split to start with, 5x5 is the way to go, or even a modified 5x5 with some accessory movements thrown in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i dont have a problem with that philosophy of full body at all. i hate them with a passion. i actually lose strength while doing them. i never suggest them to anybody. even a newb. if a newb wants a good split to start with, 5x5 is the way to go, or even a modified 5x5 with some accessory movements thrown in there.
    I group full body workouts into upper and lower body, and usually do the 5x5 routine. One of the people who I trust as a professional was Franco Columbu and his main theory was to keep legs seperated from upper body in order to keep the blood pumping to one area at a time, vs your body trying to recover everywhere. It makes sense in many ways. I am going to phase in Sunclouds idea of rep splits and see how I like it.

    As far as feedback goes. Like everyone has stated here your diet could use way more.
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    You want to bulk? 20 rep squats and deads and a gallon of WHOLE milk a day.
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    You need some red meat in your diet. I've noticed I start adding weight faster when I eat some sort of red meat (ground beef, steak, roast) an hour or so before bed, along with some complex carbs and a can of v8. The complex carbs are kind of an experiment with me: I believe that eating quick carbs before bed makes me wake up in the middle of the night with HUGE hunger pains, and the slower carbs kinda hold me over, along with the fact that red meat takes longer to digest. Also drink a shake with casein in it before bed, and mix another casein shake in water and set it next to your bed. If you happen to wake up in the night, slam that sh!t and go back to sleep.

    Mornings: if you like cooked eggs and cooked oatmeal, by all means eat it. I have found it beneficial to mix my eggs and oatmeal in a shake with some milk and a scoop of whey so I can a) get more in and b) be quick about it.

    You seriously want to over pack your food for the day to bulk. If you end the day with extra, no biggy, save it for the next day. But you never know when you're gonna get a chance to pack in more calories. You never want your body to feel hungry. If it feels hungry, you're not gaining weight. Always keep it full. Most diet plans you see people listing snacks 2 hours after a meal, and then a meal 2 hours later. I eat 500-700 calorie meals EVERY 2 hours and it's been working great for me, and I still feel like I'm not eating enough.

    Try a nutrient partitioner like Glycobol or Slin Sane (personal favorite) before your big carb meals, it helps.
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