BPS' What's improved with the upcoming DHEA transdermal

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    BPS' What's improved with the upcoming DHEA transdermal


    There are some questions regarding what type of improvements will be coming with our upcoming new and improved DHEA Transdermal Product. I wanted to post up a thread where we could ask questions to BPS himself. Perhaps make suggestions and or even have some guessing games that MAY even end up with some type of fun contest if BPS wants to do something like that.

    Lets keep this thread positive and only about the new and upcoming product.

    BPS since even us reps are excited and anticipating what the new improvements are going to be. I would love to make a suggestion if the new formulation is not set in stone. I would love to see some DIM or IC3 added into the product for estrogen modulation. We all know DHEA converts at a pretty high rate and chrysine is a decent AI but often times can not keep the excess water off. I don't see a need to crush Estro with a high dose of AI but something like DIM or IC3 would be a great addition to combat any negative estrogen sides while enforcing some of the positive effects of estrogen. It could also help aid in preventing shut down at higher doses, which we all know everyone runs DHEA product higher than the recommended doses.
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    Great idea
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    Yeah, I think it would be great in there or did you mean the thread?
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    Maybe a low dose Epiandrosterone. That would increase it's anabolic potential, fat loss properties, it's neurotransmitter stimulation, and prevent all estrogen concerns.

    DHT is a powerfull A.I.

    Anyone know the oral to transdermal dose equivalency?

    Lastly, don't drop the pregnenolone. It is pivitol to the formula.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    Maybe a low dose Epiandrosterone. That would increase it's anabolic potential, fat loss properties, it's neurotransmitter stimulation, and prevent all estrogen concerns.

    DHT is a powerfull A.I.

    Anyone know the oral to transdermal dose equivalency?

    Lastly, don't drop the pregnenolone. It is pivitol to the formula.
    I agree that pregnenolone is a good part of the formula. However I have to disagree with the statement that DHT is a powerfull A.I.

    DHT is not an AI at all. It can counteract some of the effects of Estrogen especially in breast tissue but it is a product of the aromatase process. The acronym AI means Aromatase Inhibitor naturally occuring DHT is one of the 2 hormones created when testosterone or DHEA is aromatized some is converted to DHT and some of it converted to Estrogen.

    Part of the reason steroidial DHT is beneficial at minimizing or reducing gyno is that when you begin to shut down from the higher DHT levels there is less testosterone and therefor less estrogen due to less aromatization. An estrogen starved mammary gland will shrink, and if starved of estrogen long enough some of the cells can even die.
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    Love the discussion. Fun to see the speculation on what's in it.
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    Maybe a low dose Epiandrosterone. That would increase it's anabolic potential, fat loss properties, it's neurotransmitter stimulation, and prevent all estrogen concerns.

    DHT is a strong AI Anyone know the oral to transdermal dose equivalency?

    Lastly, don't drop the pregnenolone. It is pivitol to the formula.

    this sounds good re: more anabolic if possible..


    - had to edit 'strong' due to post count not being high enough for links
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    I've read before that the metabolites of DHT can act on the aromatase enzyme and inhibit it.
    It also acts on the hypothalamus and decreases the secretion of gonadotropins which are needed for estrogen production.

    I would opt for a pro to DHT than an AI since it acts similar and has added benefits.What about another ingredient that is ergogenic + an AI?

    I definitely like the idea of DIM or resveratol.
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    MrKleen,

    I'm not here to argue. I would like to see this thread flourish as it should. However, DHT is a steroidal A.I. known to have direct antagonistic effects at the estrogen receptor, while also having anti-aromatase properties to block estrogen conversion from testosterone.
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    I like dhea + Pregnenolone, and if possible in the same formula some
    Estrogen modulation (DIM or I3C was a great suggestion by Kleen) am a huge fan of formestane
    Cortisol modulation (11-keto would be awesome) or 11-oxo, 7-oxo
    hmmm...
    and anything else that can contribute to health. Maybe something in the cognitive dept?
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    I also feel androsterone would be a nice additive to the Derma formula as they have synergestic effects when combined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattikus View Post
    I like dhea + Pregnenolone, and if possible in the same formula some
    Estrogen modulation (DIM or I3C was a great suggestion by Kleen) am a huge fan of formestane
    Cortisol modulation (11-keto would be awesome) or 11-oxo, 7-oxo
    hmmm...
    and anything else that can contribute to health. Maybe something in the cognitive dept?
    As a huge fan of formestane, have you checked out formasurge yet? http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/b...-servings.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    As a huge fan of formestane, have you checked out formasurge yet? http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/b...-servings.html
    I finally got my hands on my own bottle. Loving it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    I've read before that the metabolites of DHT can act on the aromatase enzyme and inhibit it.
    It also acts on the hypothalamus and decreases the secretion of gonadotropins which are needed for estrogen production.


    I would opt for a pro to DHT than an AI since it acts similar and has added benefits.What about another ingredient that is ergogenic + an AI?

    I definitely like the idea of DIM or resveratol.
    I wonder if this is part of a part of the negative feedback loop. Since DHT is a product of the aromatization process perhaps a high count of DHT signals the body too much aromatization is gong on thereby lowering the production of the enzyme itself? Can you refer me to a specific study or something so I can look at what you have been reading?

    DHT / Andro would be a sexy addition just not sure how cost effective it would be considering the low cost of the new product that has been mentioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    MrKleen,

    I'm not here to argue. I would like to see this thread flourish as it should. However, DHT is a steroidal A.I. known to have direct antagonistic effects at the estrogen receptor, while also having anti-aromatase properties to block estrogen conversion from testosterone.
    Damn It Ape How dare you disagree with me!

    Actually if find this level of conversation very interesting, and don't consider it argument at all. I am not that guy...

    I may have to do a little more research on the subject. I knew that DHT was an AE, or anti-estrogen via competition at the receptor as I mentioned in my post. I was I more refering to it not being a suicide inhibitor. However I need to look at little more into the method in which it inhibits the aromatization process. Like I asked Austin above can you provide some of the studies you are getting your information from so I can go do a little more research? I mean I could sift through tons of studies but if you have read one and know about where you found it that would be more helpful.
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    DHT has a very low affinity for the estrogen receptor, it's specifically used in research for that reason. A classic paper demonstrating this is Kuiper et al, Endocrinology 1997. Because other androgens do interact with the AR and ER at appreciable affinities, DHT was used (in part) to identify AR-specific downstream effects. I'm using it in some nuclear receptor experiments right now for just that reason too.

    As for it being an aromatase inhibitor, I've only given it a cursory look at this point, but can only find secondary and tertiary sources on that claim. Given it's poor binding to the ER, there are other compounds that would be far more efficient as an AI. As yet no actual research that I have come across supports that claim. If such research exists, please post it, as I'm not seeing it.
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    Ape, Resolve, Kleen, I agree with all of yas.
    And Resolve, yep on Formasurge at this very moment. It is a key part of my current plan and I would be in a different situation without it. Awesome and stronger than others I have used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73

    I wonder if this is part of a part of the negative feedback loop. Since DHT is a product of the aromatization process perhaps a high count of DHT signals the body too much aromatization is gong on thereby lowering the production of the enzyme itself? Can you refer me to a specific study or something so I can look at what you have been reading?

    DHT / Andro would be a sexy addition just not sure how cost effective it would be considering the low cost of the new product that has been mentioned.
    I can't right now since I am on my phone and it isn't very easy. I like your thinking because that makes perfect sense to me.

    It could be cost effective if the skin gives good conversion rates.

    I can't wait to see what ingredients will be used
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    I can't right now since I am on my phone and it isn't very easy. I like your thinking because that makes perfect sense to me.

    It could be cost effective if the skin gives good conversion rates.

    I can't wait to see what ingredients will be used
    Cool thanks will look forward to when you have a chance to post some thing up.
    Resolve thanks for the input. I am definitely curious if there is some science I am unaware of. I like to think a have a little knowledge about stuff but don't consider myself a scholar by any means. Those of us who know you know that you are.
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    I'm no expert either, and can't make heads or tails of most studies. My opinion on the epiandrosterone, cones from what I've been told by more knowledgeable heads. People who know their **** like Matt Porter.

    I try to avoid bro science at all cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwa254 View Post
    I finally got my hands on my own bottle. Loving it.
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    any hint on an eta?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    DHT has a very low affinity for the estrogen receptor, it's specifically used in research for that reason. A classic paper demonstrating this is Kuiper et al, Endocrinology 1997. Because other androgens do interact with the AR and ER at appreciable affinities, DHT was used (in part) to identify AR-specific downstream effects. I'm using it in some nuclear receptor experiments right now for just that reason too.

    As for it being an aromatase inhibitor, I've only given it a cursory look at this point, but can only find secondary and tertiary sources on that claim. Given it's poor binding to the ER, there are other compounds that would be far more efficient as an AI. As yet no actual research that I have come across supports that claim. If such research exists, please post it, as I'm not seeing it.
    isn't there a huge difference between a anti-estrogen like letro, and a aromatase inhibitor like say formestane. other than their mode of action that is.
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    as a side note....i know bps is not likely to put minoxidil in any of their transdermals, but adding a small amount to your transdermal solution will increase asbsorption by a noticeable amount.


    -just thought i would pass this along, this has worked on every kind of transdermal i have put it in......
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    please gels only.. not a fan of liquid transdermals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    as a side note....i know bps is not likely to put minoxidil in any of their transdermals, but adding a small amount to your transdermal solution will increase asbsorption by a noticeable amount.


    -just thought i would pass this along, this has worked on every kind of transdermal i have put it in......
    Didn't know that. Awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattikus View Post
    Didn't know that. Awesome.
    it's not as effective as dmso, but you don't have the smell and other sides either...dmso is very potent stuff, imo...minoxidil will get the job done and is safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    it's not as effective as dmso, but you don't have the smell and other sides either...dmso is very potent stuff, imo...minoxidil will get the job done and is safe.
    That is a really good suggestion Tom. I had no idea that made a difference. DMSO is definitely not my favorite ingredient that is for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    That is a really good suggestion Tom. I had no idea that made a difference. DMSO is definitely not my favorite ingredient that is for sure.
    ...

    dr.d mentioned it in the old formestane thread a few years ago, i tried it and have been doing it every since...the difference is definately noticeable, at least to me!!! definately worth a shot...
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    Straight from the horses mouth...well, sort of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    dht and its metabolite 5a-androstandione have been identified as having aromatase inhibition activity. they may act as receptor antagonists too, or post receptor modulators of estrogen gene expression
    I'm going to take PA's word on this.

    Now put some Epiandrosterone in this BPS.

    4-DHEA+Epiandrosterone+Pregnalon e for the win.
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    i always said that DHT is great stuff for you, the anti estrogen you can get LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ...

    dr.d mentioned it in the old formestane thread a few years ago, i tried it and have been doing it every since...the difference is definately noticeable, at least to me!!! definately worth a shot...
    Where do you get said additive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Where do you get said additive?
    lol....it is the active ingredient in rogaine!!! if you look in the clearance sections at drugstores and walmart you can find it marked down sometimes. i got a big bottle of generic minoxidil in the markdown section at krogers for $9. it lasted a very long time as not a whole lot is needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol....it is the active ingredient in rogaine!!! if you look in the clearance sections at drugstores and walmart you can find it marked down sometimes. i got a big bottle of generic minoxidil in the markdown section at krogers for $9. it lasted a very long time as not a whole lot is needed.
    So how much would I put in a bottle of FormaSurge Tom?
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    Just a thought on a little something to add. L-carnitine. If im not mistaken it is an androgen receptor inhancer among other things. So the way I see it, the dhea that does actually convert to test will have more receptors to attatch to. I could be totally out in left field with this though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanedoolie View Post
    Just a thought on a little something to add. L-carnitine. If im not mistaken it is an androgen receptor inhancer among other things. So the way I see it, the dhea that does actually convert to test will have more receptors to attatch to. I could be totally out in left field with this though.
    It depends on if it will make it through the skin and at what rate if it does. It is actually LCLT that is the one you want but yes, carnitine is an excellent suggestion!
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    So how much would I put in a bottle of FormaSurge Tom?
    a tablespoon does the trick for me!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    It depends on if it will make it through the skin and at what rate if it does. It is actually LCLT that is the one you want but yes, carnitine is an excellent suggestion!
    i have never heard of transdermal lclt? you would have to check the molecular weight to see if it is compatible with the formasurge carrier...usually hormonals like formestane need a different carrier than say a caffeine/yohimbine fatburner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antknee02 View Post
    any hint on an eta?
    I don't know of one.
    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    That is a really good suggestion Tom. I had no idea that made a difference. DMSO is definitely not my favorite ingredient that is for sure.
    Yeah some people break out in rashes from DMSO.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ...

    dr.d mentioned it in the old formestane thread a few years ago, i tried it and have been doing it every since...the difference is definately noticeable, at least to me!!! definately worth a shot...
    Interesting. I wonder what other effect it has doesn't it have an affinity to the AR receptors isn't that how it blocks DHT from the hair follicle? Although as low dosed as it would be and only localized I bet isn't too big a deal just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    Straight from the horses mouth...well, sort of.


    I'm going to take PA's word on this.

    Now put some Epiandrosterone in this BPS.

    4-DHEA+Epiandrosterone+Pregnalon e for the win.
    Who is PA, Just playing. Now we are talking a different animal completely. However a sexy sounding one.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i have never heard of transdermal lclt? you would have to check the molecular weight to see if it is compatible with the formasurge carrier...usually hormonals like formestane need a different carrier than say a caffeine/yohimbine fatburner.
    Interesting I wonder if this would work. I just use AI Sports LCLT bulk powder is a sweet deal.
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    no, chris...minoxidil isn't the same as finerestide or whatever the anti-dht drug is called. it has no effect on hormones that i know of-actually it was a oral bp drug until they found that topically it grew hair, lol.
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    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-03-2004, 08:37 PM
  5. What's Wrong With the Post Counts?
    By TheChosen1 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-31-2004, 05:00 AM

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