BPS' What's improved with the upcoming DHEA transdermal
- 10-10-2012, 10:44 AM
I don't know but I love the idea of topical Urso, increased IGF-1, increased insulin sensitivity, lower estrogen... Very interesting... looking at the molecular weight though it is 456.7 I think the cut off for being a viable transdermally is 300. I may be wrong.
Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEENhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
Current Training Log - - 10-10-2012, 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by MrKleen73
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- 10-10-2012, 11:05 AM
- 10-10-2012, 11:09 AM
- 10-10-2012, 11:13 AM
Not sure what is with the condescending tone there. Nor the assumption that there was a "We" in MY post. I certainly don't speak for the entire rep team. Many of them may be aware of that fact that he carries that product. I don't know why you think I should inherently know what PA is doing. His company is not BPS I don't represent him, and I am not paid to know everything about what every one does in the world of supplements. I am paid to fix computers. You have to realize this is something we do on the side not our entire lives nor livelihood. Expecting us to know what every other company has going on is unrealistic. Most of us are guys just like you all. I said I "think" that 300 was the cut off for being viable transdermally, and follow it with "I may be wrong." Leaving the door open to be corrected but not to be spoken down to. Last time I was making my own transdermal solutions which was a few years ago the carriers available the recommended threshold was around 300. That is the information I was speaking to.
Thanks for making me aware of his transdermal product. I will probably have to pick some up now because I am a fan of Urso and it was his original Ursobolic that I used with great success.Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEENhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
Current Training Log - -
- 10-12-2012, 04:04 AM
- 10-12-2012, 02:04 PM
- 10-12-2012, 02:18 PM
As I recall, the legislation regarding topicals is different from standard supplement law, but I'll have to look it up again to remember how they differ...
- 10-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by MrKleen73
I will more than likely get Ur spray to run this summer to help me lean out and maintain muscle when I switch to a more cardio based training program. - 10-12-2012, 02:24 PM
- 10-12-2012, 08:27 PM
- 10-12-2012, 08:34 PM
- 10-12-2012, 09:53 PM
- 10-13-2012, 11:55 PM
Excellent conversation. As someone on this inside, I can tell you all, you are going to LOVE the new transdermal. I myself am psyched to use it personally, let alone sell it lol.
- 10-13-2012, 11:59 PM
- 10-14-2012, 12:15 AM
- 10-14-2012, 01:25 AM
- 10-14-2012, 10:54 AM
I am very excited to see what this is going to be also.
Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEENhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
Current Training Log - - 10-14-2012, 11:30 AM
- 10-14-2012, 11:55 PM
If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
- 10-14-2012, 11:59 PM
- 10-15-2012, 01:45 AM
- 10-15-2012, 02:11 AM
- 10-15-2012, 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by MrKleen73
Not trying to rain on your parade or be condescending or anything of the sort... but this is truly a misinformed statement.
Dht is a product of 5a reductase, not the aromatase enzyme. There are no hormonal "byproducts" of the aromatase process. There is one, single, steroidal skeleton involved, typically in the form of testosterone, the aromatase enzyme attaches and then adds the necessary compound to turn that steroidal skeleton into one bearing the formula for estrogen. Plain and simple. There aren't 2 skeletons that cleave making both estrogen and dht or any other sort of combo. They both occur through their own individual enzymatic conversion processes on individual skeletons [of testosterone].
Check out any male hormone conversion chart... Google can show many out here's one on my photobucket....... and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Separate point.... kinda... is my disagreement that this is even a viable hormone supplement for the market...
I know many others like dermacrine have come and gone, impressing many... but i just don't see it and think that any male should avoid supplementing dhea like the plague unless on trt and they need a viable source for other sex hormones...
I've made multiple arguments, that cite studies, against dhea use(especially transdermal) that i can copy or link if wanted...but essentially it shows how horrible dhea really can be for a man and the horrible ratio of testosterone conversion that occurs compared to estrogen(something like 40% increase in T compared to a 300% increase in E over baseline values) and i know the argument is an AI is included BUT it's not a strong one, def not strong enough to offset those percentages. Not to mention dhea has its own intrinsic effects at the ER AND other metabolites dhea converts to(that an AI can't block)also have direct interactions at the ER....
So like I said, really unless your lacking in estrogen, I'd avoid taking dhea like the plague.
Again not trying to start an argument, just making some viable points I'd be happy to back up further if requested to do so.iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html - 10-15-2012, 09:25 AM
Sourdough, pretty sure you misinterpreted Kleen's post. Kleen, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were trying to say that test can be converted to either DHT or estradiol, not that the single sterol skeleton was being split into two separate hormones.
Edit: I've seen conversion rates in studies both high and low, seems very dependent on model system. Also, there is plenty of evidence of DHEA having beneficial effects in plenty of studies, though the mechanism is still certainly not agreed upon.
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