L-DOPA and vitamin B6: Prolactrone and ZMA?

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Hey, I'm looking into giving Prolactrone a try soon enough! Just wondering though, if I take ZMA every night (which has around 10mg of vitamin B6), will this amount of B6 interact with L-DOPA and prevent it from doing its job? Should I therefore stop taking the ZMA altogether during my prolactrone run (perhaps instead just taking zinc as a standalone supp) or is it sufficient to take them at different times of the day (ZMA before bed, Prolactrone an hour or two after breakfast)? And if there is indeed an interaction here, should I furthermore wait a week or two after stopping the ZMA before I start Prolactrone?

Anyone have experience with this dilemma? I'd imagine a lot of people here would take ZMA routinely so I'm sure I'm not the first to have wondered about this :D
 
jp_x_type

jp_x_type

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
What really confuses me about the L-Dopa-B6 issue is that some companies say they work in tandem with each other (see SNS Inhibit-P) while others specify not to take them at the same time.

Personally I wouldn't worry about taking 10mg pyrdoxine with mucuna as I highly doubt it will reduce its efficacy
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
What really confuses me about the L-Dopa-B6 issue is that some companies say they work in tandem with each other (see SNS Inhibit-P) while others specify not to take them at the same time.

Personally I wouldn't worry about taking 10mg pyrdoxine with mucuna as I highly doubt it will reduce its efficacy
From my reading of it, the confusion arises because Vitamin B6 does indeed help convert L-DOPA to dopamine, but it causes this conversion to happen before the L-DOPA crosses the blood brain barrier, and as dopamine itself cannot cross this barrier, the resulting dopamine ends up uselessly circulating throughout the body as opposed to in the brain where it does its work.
That's just from my own brief research though, perhaps someone with more knowledge can confirm?

And can anyone confirm that the 11mg of Vit B6 in my ZMA will in fact not interact with the L-DOPA in Prolactrone, or that it will and I need to cease ZMA supplementation if I want the full benefits of the dopamine conversion?
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Take the Prolactrone in the morning and ZMA at night.
I take a multi vit with b6 and I also take pro.
I do 1 cap pro with breakfast and 1 cap before the gym at 4. Then I take my multi right before bed.
Do your best to give them a min of 6 hours apart. B6 is out of your system quickly.


The combo will cause more sides than effects but if they are kept far enough apart its not an issue.

You should not EVER take them together. THere are even drug interactions with ldopa/levodopa and pyridoxine (b6) listed on web md and other med sites.
It clearly states that it will reduce the effect of the levodopa rendering the product ineffective. As little as 5-10mg can do this.
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/levodopa-index.html?filter=2&generic_only=

Some people state that pyridoxine can lower prolactin so it works with ldopa but you need approx 600mg of b6 daily for it to be effective.
If 5-10mg can prevent ldopa from working what do you think 600 will do :)

Pyridoxine is fine solo short term for prolactin but it can cause severe nerve damage so limit it to a week or 2.
Ldopa works great for reducing prolactin. Even better with EGCG.= Prolactrone
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Take the Prolactrone in the morning and ZMA at night.
I take a multi vit with b6 and I also take pro.
I do 1 cap pro with breakfast and 1 cap before the gym at 4. Then I take my multi right before bed.
Do your best to give them a min of 6 hours apart. B6 is out of your system quickly.


The combo will cause more sides than effects but if they are kept far enough apart its not an issue.

You should not EVER take them together. THere are even drug interactions with ldopa/levodopa and pyridoxine (b6) listed on web md and other med sites.
It clearly states that it will reduce the effect of the levodopa rendering the product ineffective. As little as 5-10mg can do this.
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/levodopa-index.html?filter=2&generic_only=

Some people state that pyridoxine can lower prolactin so it works with ldopa but you need approx 600mg of b6 daily for it to be effective.
If 5-10mg can prevent ldopa from working what do you think 600 will do :)

Pyridoxine is fine solo short term for prolactin but it can cause severe nerve damage so limit it to a week or 2.
Ldopa works great for reducing prolactin. Even better with EGCG.= Prolactrone
Well in your opinion as far as test boosting goes, how important is B6 in the ZMA formula? If, to be safe, I switched from ZMA to just taking 30mg of chelated zinc at night before bed, would I lose much in terms of the test boost? I know zinc is a very mild anti aromatase especially for those who don't get much in their diet, but I've never been 100% sure of the reason behind B6's inclusion in the supp. The magnesium helps one achieve a much deeper level of sleep which helps boost hormone levels but at the same time I find it also causes a certain amount of sleep inertia (for example, I never take ZMA the night before I absolutely have to be up early, it makes me sleep through the most vicious alarms I can find!) so perhaps a month or two off while I'm taking the prolactrone wouldn't be so bad...
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Not sure why its in there but 10mg isnt much and wont effect your Prolactrone dose when taken in the Morning.
As for raising test levels it doesnt.

Effects of megadoses of pyridoxine on spermatogenesis and male reproductive organs in rats.
Mori K1, Kaido M, Fujishiro K, Inoue N, Koide O.
Author information
Abstract

Although it has been indicated that many neurotoxicants also cause reproductive toxicity, the reproductive toxicity of megadoses of pyridoxine, which is a neurotoxicant, has not been studied. In this paper, we studied the effects of megadoses of pyridoxine on male reproductive organs. Pyridoxine hydrochloride, 125 mg/kg, 250 mg/kg, 500 mg/kg or 1000 mg/kg, daily, was intraperitoneally injected into Wistar male rats 5 days a week for 2 or 6 weeks, and its effects on the male reproductive organs were investigated. After 2 weeks of administration, absolute weights of the testis in the 500 and 1000 mg/kg epididymis in all the exposed groups and prostate gland in the 1000 mg/kg group decreased, and mature spermatid counts in the testis decreased in the 1000 mg/kg group. After 6 weeks administration, the absolute and relative weights of the testis, epididymis, prostate gland and seminal vesicle decreased in the 500 mg/kg and 1000 mg/kg groups, and mature spermatid counts in the testis and sperm counts in the epididymis decreased in these groups. Among the marker enzymes of the testicular cells, LDH-X activity decreased, and beta-glucuronidase activity, cytochrome P-450 content and cytochrome b5 content increased in the 1000 mg/kg group. Plasma testosterone concentration did not significantly alter in all the exposed groups. From these results, it was concluded that megadoses of pyridoxine affected the spermatogenesis and decreased reproductive organ weights in the rat.
 
mw1

mw1

Sponsor
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Hey, I'm looking into giving Prolactrone a try soon enough! Just wondering though, if I take ZMA every night (which has around 10mg of vitamin B6), will this amount of B6 interact with L-DOPA and prevent it from doing its job? Should I therefore stop taking the ZMA altogether during my prolactrone run (perhaps instead just taking zinc as a standalone supp) or is it sufficient to take them at different times of the day (ZMA before bed, Prolactrone an hour or two after breakfast)? And if there is indeed an interaction here, should I furthermore wait a week or two after stopping the ZMA before I start Prolactrone?

Anyone have experience with this dilemma? I'd imagine a lot of people here would take ZMA routinely so I'm sure I'm not the first to have wondered about this :D
Why are u taking zma ? It's benefits are very minute
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Why are u taking zma ? It's benefits are very minute
I have T:E ratio issues which I will basically do anything I can to improve, and as governments continue to ban and criminalize anti-estrogen supplements, there aren't a massive number of options.
As per another thread, they all fall within the "normal" range so docs won't do anything for me. But they're at the bare edge of "normal" and that's not good enough for me.
Is it not known that zinc supplementation does in fact go some way towards inhibiting aromatase?
 
mw1

mw1

Sponsor
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I have T:E ratio issues which I will basically do anything I can to improve, and as governments continue to ban and criminalize anti-estrogen supplements, there aren't a massive number of options.
As per another thread, they all fall within the "normal" range so docs won't do anything for me. But they're at the bare edge of "normal" and that's not good enough for me.
Is it not known that zinc supplementation does in fact go some way towards inhibiting aromatase?
If it does its very minimal. Have you tried going to a different Dr? If they are borderline levels I'm sure another Dr may help you. Some just don't believe in trt,etc unless your levels are tanked. :(
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I have T:E ratio issues which I will basically do anything I can to improve, and as governments continue to ban and criminalize anti-estrogen supplements, there aren't a massive number of options.
As per another thread, they all fall within the "normal" range so docs won't do anything for me. But they're at the bare edge of "normal" and that's not good enough for me.
Is it not known that zinc supplementation does in fact go some way towards inhibiting aromatase?
Send me a pm. I might be able to use you for testing our new ai.
=free ai.
Also we are about to release a serm.. very solid product.
I'd be willing to bet if you combined our serm the ai and maybe viron your test levels will be high and estro low.
I've helped a ton of people restore hpta function. Used to use formeron but it's gone now. Our new ai will do the trick though.
Pm me and we will get you setup.
Wholesale on the viron and serm and free on the ai so long as you help us test it.
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Send me a pm. I might be able to use you for testing our new ai.
=free ai.
Also we are about to release a serm.. very solid product.
I'd be willing to bet if you combined our serm the ai and maybe viron your test levels will be high and estro low.
I've helped a ton of people restore hpta function. Used to use formeron but it's gone now. Our new ai will do the trick though.
Pm me and we will get you setup.
Wholesale on the viron and serm and free on the ai so long as you help us test it.
I'm intrigued, PMing now. One issue though, I'm currently almost half way through a 12 week raloxifene course to try and deal with the gyno, assuming I'd have to wait until after to do a test? The main reason I picked up the Formeron I managed to get was to make sure I had an AI to dose for the final week or so of the ralox, to avoid rebound when coming off it.
Definitely interested though. PMed you details.
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I'm intrigued, PMing now. One issue though, I'm currently almost half way through a 12 week raloxifene course to try and deal with the gyno, assuming I'd have to wait until after to do a test? The main reason I picked up the Formeron I managed to get was to make sure I had an AI to dose for the final week or so of the ralox, to avoid rebound when coming off it.
Definitely interested though. PMed you details.
Awesome I'll answer the pm in the am and we will work things out.
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Awesome I'll answer the pm in the am and we will work things out.
Sounds good! Also included my blood results from the end of an arimistane cycle which, if accurate, would imply that arimistane is useless at best and actually harmful at worst... You might find that interesting as I've seen you bashing arimistane around here in a few other threads ;)
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Sounds good! Also included my blood results from the end of an arimistane cycle which, if accurate, would imply that arimistane is useless at best and actually harmful at worst... You might find that interesting as I've seen you bashing arimistane around here in a few other threads ;)
Please post your bloodwork results.

This is so other people can see why I say what I do. Its not to bash other companies (like I am frequently accused of) but to help the end users not harm themselves.

Lots of companies will just put whatever they see are popular ingredients in a bottle and slap their labels on them with no research or knowledge of if it even works.
THis sets off a chain reaction where the industry has 9009023423 of the same poor products.
People buy it because they see it everywhere and all the company reps promote it.
ALWAYS do your own research. The internet is your friend. If you cant find 1 viable study...or better yet a ton of viable studies the its likely the ingredient doesnt work as advertised.
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I should mention ahead of time if you do be prepared to be assaulted for it. There are many who firmly believe arimistane works and also those who still sell it. All of who will defend their opinion regardless of evidence or a lack there of.
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Another L-DOPA question (sorry, just tend to ask a ridiculous amount of qs before taking anything serious)
1: I've heard that one can't take L-DOPA if one is taking L-Tyrosine. Is this true? I take Universal Animal Pump as a pre-workout supp and I thought it contained L-Tyrosine as a stim (online label doesn't show it but perhaps it's only the European version, will check when I'm at home). Would taking Prolactrone mean I should stop taking Pump altogether, or maybe spread them apart so they're never taken at the same time? I don't mind skipping the pump if I have to, just wondering if this is a concern. Online label photos suggest that it's only Animal Rage which contains L-Tyrosine but I could have sworn pump had it as well.

2: I'm a bit confused over the EGCG and Carbidopa issue. From my reading of it, in order for L-DOPA to get into the brain one needs to inhibit both decarboxylase and COMT. EGCG appears from my reading to be a decent COMT inhibitor, but without carbidopa or another decarboxylase inhibitor does that not mean that the decarboxylase will grab a lot of the L-DOPA and convert it before it reaches the brain? Am I missing something there?
 

kisaj

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Sounds good! Also included my blood results from the end of an arimistane cycle which, if accurate, would imply that arimistane is useless at best and actually harmful at worst... You might find that interesting as I've seen you bashing arimistane around here in a few other threads ;)
Most people would realize arimistane is a useless AI if they got bloods done.
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Another L-DOPA question (sorry, just tend to ask a ridiculous amount of qs before taking anything serious)
1: I've heard that one can't take L-DOPA if one is taking L-Tyrosine. Is this true? I take Universal Animal Pump as a pre-workout supp and I thought it contained L-Tyrosine as a stim (online label doesn't show it but perhaps it's only the European version, will check when I'm at home). Would taking Prolactrone mean I should stop taking Pump altogether, or maybe spread them apart so they're never taken at the same time? I don't mind skipping the pump if I have to, just wondering if this is a concern. Online label photos suggest that it's only Animal Rage which contains L-Tyrosine but I could have sworn pump had it as well.

2: I'm a bit confused over the EGCG and Carbidopa issue. From my reading of it, in order for L-DOPA to get into the brain one needs to inhibit both decarboxylase and COMT. EGCG appears from my reading to be a decent COMT inhibitor, but without carbidopa or another decarboxylase inhibitor does that not mean that the decarboxylase will grab a lot of the L-DOPA and convert it before it reaches the brain? Am I missing something there?
The green tea gallocatechins, (−)-epigallocatechin-3-O-gallate (EGCG), and (−)-epigallocatechin (EGC) were found to be inhibitors of Dopa decarboxylase (DDC)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X01949459
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
You should not take tyrosine at the same time as Ldopa, because Ldopa may interfere with the absorption of tyrosine.
Take them a min of 6 hours apart.
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Perfect, thanks! Will be ordering prolactrone shortly from JW :D
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Sorry one other thing: Are there any prolactrone logs from people who were just running it to control their ordinary prolactin levels as opposed to those doing or coming off prohormone cycles? Be interested to see bloods from such a person if there are any posted, but if not I might post a log of my own experience if that's ok with ye, once I start using it. I doubt I'm the only one who'd be using it as a standalone just for overall improvement as opposed to PCT?
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Sorry one other thing: Are there any prolactrone logs from people who were just running it to control their ordinary prolactin levels as opposed to those doing or coming off prohormone cycles? Be interested to see bloods from such a person if there are any posted, but if not I might post a log of my own experience if that's ok with ye, once I start using it. I doubt I'm the only one who'd be using it as a standalone just for overall improvement as opposed to PCT?
There are logs on other forums with bloodwork yes but not here.
I have some lab results on my comp if you would like to see.
I ran labs on myself several times. 1 cap puts my prl at 5.
 

Canes325

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
There are logs on other forums with bloodwork yes but not here.
I have some lab results on my comp if you would like to see.
I ran labs on myself several times. 1 cap puts my prl at 5.
brundel, how would you take prolactrone for general well being? Not on PH/aas just looking for that feel good all day and boost in libido?
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
brundel, how would you take prolactrone for general well being? Not on PH/aas just looking for that feel good all day and boost in libido?
1 cap is pretty strong. I would start with only one cap per day.
Youll notice the libido and vivid dreams etc within a few days to a week. If after a week its not pronounced enough up it to 1 cap twice a day. Prolactin will tank out for certain and you will, after maybe 10 to 14 days, begin to experience some sexual effects.
In some men exceptionally low prolactin can allow multiple orgasm or it really prolongs it. Part of what stops the orgasm is prolactin so...keeping it low has some interesting effects.
On top of this studies indicate that at the 2 cap dose ldopa increased hgh levels on average to 19.6ng with the normal top end in humans being only 3..so a huge increase.
 

conkertheking

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
brundel Is Prolactin useful at all in men? As in, are there any negatives to reducing it too much or for too long? Everything I've read about prolactin suggests that apart from women who are breastfeeding, it has more or less no effects except for negative ones, unlike E2 which you can't suppress too much or for too long without nasty sides.

I just got bloods done for my Raloxifene run, only two weeks left of that so should have the results in a few days. Will order Prolactrone as soon as JW Supps have it back in stock and will post results here.

Only thing is my results won't be completely clean as I'll be running Formestane simultaneously, but I might try alternating them one at a time for a month or two to see what their effects are independent of eachother. As I understand it, altering levels of either prolactin or estradiol alone will have some knock on effects on whichever one isn't being altered?
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
In men there are no negatives to having abnormally low prolactin that I am aware of.
Conversely there ARE negatives to long term low estrogen. Estrogen should be managed not crushed.
When prolactin is low libido is high, sexual refractory period is low, energy is high, mood is good. Prolactin sucks.
 

Mythalive

New member
Awards
0
Hi brundel
I would like to ask you if I can take prolactrone with vitamin D or vitamin E...
Thanks in advance.
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Yes sir.
As far as I know only pyridoxine/b6/p5p has a negative interaction with Ldopa.
 

Mythalive

New member
Awards
0
Thank you brundel,
I have bought prolactrone to bring my prolactin down...my current prolactin level is 45ng/mL and my Oestradiol level is 157 pmol.
My libido is not good, i can get an erection but cant maintain it and no longer have a spontaneous or morning wood...it sucks.
I am hoping that prolactrone can bring my prolactin leves down...
Just one more question, if you dont mind....
For how long should I take prolactrone in my case? Thanks
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Try 1 cap am and 1 cap pm. I take it with a little food or it can make me nauseated slightly.
Estro is also pretty high. Might want to address that as well.

Either way I expect youll feel better within a week or so. Possibly faster.
 

Mythalive

New member
Awards
0
Yes I bring my estro down also.
Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciated.
Cheers.
 

Mythalive

New member
Awards
0
Hi brundel,
Sorry but I forgot to ask you one thing.
What supplement do you recommend that is the best to bring the estrogen levels down?
I bought a supplement that is used mostly by woman called estrosmart.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
 
brundel

brundel

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Hi brundel,
Sorry but I forgot to ask you one thing.
What supplement do you recommend that is the best to bring the estrogen levels down?
I bought a supplement that is used mostly by woman called estrosmart.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
I wouldnt take that. It has several compounds known to be antiandrogenic. Simply put it is like taking something that blocks testosterone and dht. This is bad.
We have a new AI coming out.
Where do you live?
 

Mythalive

New member
Awards
0
Oh ok
I live in London (UK)
Would be interested in getting the new Al if possible.
 

Similar threads


Top