FORMERON FAQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post
    Looks solid to me. Wouldn't Naringin be a good bioavailability enhancer?
    It certainly might be. My memory isnt great but I have a list of potentials I have already researched. I believe this is one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Swap out the SERM for icariin or forskolin?
    The forskolin is probably a no go just due to the price.
    Icariin is great but I dont think it increases test levels. Its ONLY a PDE5 inhibitor right? It would be great for vasodialation and erection but probably not contribute to Total or free T levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post

    A SERM binds to estro receptors and prevents its action. It does not lower estrogen.
    Its use in the product is actually to increase test levels as most SERMS are very good for this. So, its not to control estro although it will help if issues arise.
    Not sure if accurate but I remeber a doctor talking on super human radio saying that serms also block androgen receptors and have had as many negative outcomes as positive. From what I have read I think I will stay away from serms. Again just my opinion. I could be wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by bswanny View Post
    Not sure if accurate but I remeber a doctor talking on super human radio saying that serms also block androgen receptors and have had as many negative outcomes as positive. From what I have read I think I will stay away from serms. Again just my opinion. I could be wrong
    I have never seen any studies to support this.
    In addition the SERM we use has been shown to be beneficial in a number of ways. Never have i heard of a compound that binds to estrogen and androgen receptors. IM not ever sure if this is possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    I have never seen any studies to support this. In addition the SERM we use has been shown to be beneficial in a number of ways. Never have i heard of a compound that binds to estrogen and androgen receptors. IM not ever sure if this is possible.
    Can you tell us which SERM? I'd rather have a SERM from you guys then from any of these other company's to be honest lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post

    I have never seen any studies to support this.
    In addition the SERM we use has been shown to be beneficial in a number of ways. Never have i heard of a compound that binds to estrogen and androgen receptors. IM not ever sure if this is possible.
    And that could be true. The doctor also went on to site how his DHT based product was better for gyno. Therefore his opinion was tied into the sale of his product. Looked up ergo log for some studies pertaining to what he stated but no luck. He stated the same for formastane but I belive he was talking about the injectable form. Much stronger than topical and in larger dose
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Can you tell us which SERM? I'd rather have a SERM from you guys then from any of these other company's to be honest lol
    For now I need to keep it quiet but its not new. Its been used in low doses in other supplements but never in high enough amounts.
    I do know that breast cancer patients do use this as a natural alternative to Tamoxifen and it works about as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bswanny View Post
    And that could be true. The doctor also went on to site how his DHT based product was better for gyno. Therefore his opinion was tied into the sale of his product. Looked up ergo log for some studies pertaining to what he stated but no luck. He stated the same for formastane but I belive he was talking about the injectable form. Much stronger than topical and in larger dose
    Formestane is an AI so it doesnt bind to estro receptors like a SERM. It is mildly anabolic though so its metabolite WILL bind to androgen receptors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post

    Formestane is an AI so it doesnt bind to estro receptors like a SERM. It is mildly anabolic though so its metabolite WILL bind to androgen receptors.
    Correct, sorry. He stated forestane binds to the androgen receptors. Also you are correct in that formestane is mildly anabolic so it is of some benefit in the receptor. I belive the dr in this interview was the founder of primordial. He was just very against serms
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Swap out the SERM for icariin or forskolin?
    Why? The SERM is only going to make the formula better
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Im trying to decide what mg per ingredient to put in the test caps.
    I need to take a few things into consideration.
    1. price per ingredient and how much it will ultimately cost per bottle.
    2. Effect. I want to make sure that its in there in proper quantities. We dont hide behind proprietary blends. Who cares if you have every ingredient known to man in your product if its only 3mg per lol.

    So..Per dose we probably need...
    250mg min tongkat
    500 nettle
    200 SERM
    10 Boron
    I dont have any bioperine at work but Ill get some and maybe some other bioavailability enhancers.
    At this dose^^ we can get away with 2 cap dosing.
    Maybe 60-90 caps per bottle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post

    I just want to make sure the product is worth you giving me your money for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    IF you have full blown gyno you can try 3-4 pumps a day for 2 weeks and see if it begins to subside.
    If not again I would go to Nolvadex. This drug more than any other has been proven to reverse estro driven gyno.
    I joined this thread because of this. I have gotten bunk letro from research companies and have had gyno symptoms for a month. First it was a little itch now for a week or so it's been painful knots that aren't under the nipple but to the side and up or under. I plan on using pharma letro and formeron to prevent rebound as well as prami. What dosage shoul I use the formeron and when/how long after letro. Letro is going to be 2.5mg a day until I see results I'm looking for or I can't stand the sides then I'll taper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquatsAndOats View Post
    I joined this thread because of this. I have gotten bunk letro from research companies and have had gyno symptoms for a month. First it was a little itch now for a week or so it's been painful knots that aren't under the nipple but to the side and up or under. I plan on using pharma letro and formeron to prevent rebound as well as prami. What dosage shoul I use the formeron and when/how long after letro. Letro is going to be 2.5mg a day until I see results I'm looking for or I can't stand the sides then I'll taper.
    Research chem sites are terrible.
    If you have letro and it really is letro you wont need both letro and Formeron. Youll be miserable.
    Run the letro till symptoms subside or lack of motivation and libido become intolerable. At this point just stop Letro and jump on the Formeron.
    Once letro has dropped estro even 1 pump Formeron will be plenty to keep estro at bay so long as no other offending compounds are in use.
    I dont think you need prami unless you believe its prolactin related.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Research chem sites are terrible.
    If you have letro and it really is letro you wont need both letro and Formeron. Youll be miserable.
    Run the letro till symptoms subside or lack of motivation and libido become intolerable. At this point just stop Letro and jump on the Formeron.
    Once letro has dropped estro even 1 pump Formeron will be plenty to keep estro at bay so long as no other offending compounds are in use.
    I dont think you need prami unless you believe its prolactin related.
    Thanks brundel. I'm confident it will be letro. One of those online pharmacy sites that I have used for other stuff before. I was also hoping to use the formeron to keep sex drive up a bit and strength up wile on letro. I have powerlifting meet in 2 weeks. The prami was just Reseach prami that I got from a friend who said it worked, and it seems to. I was going off what the "gyno killer" thread was. I also seemed to e prolactin sensitive because I got sides from epistane that nolva made worse. This was nolva that I had used 4 months earlier and worked. I wish I could find an actual place for torem. Seems like the best serm
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post

    I just want to make sure the product is worth you giving me your money for.
    With those ingredients and the possible synergy they will cause, I don't mind forking over cash to even put a very extensive review as well!
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    Yeah, horizon just IM'd me and said he'd buy mine too. He is that excited!
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    Took 250 mgs of Tongkat this morning and experienced the nice energy without the heart race & BP increase. I think 250mg is the sweet spot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post
    Took 250 mgs of Tongkat this morning and experienced the nice energy without the heart race & BP increase. I think 250mg is the sweet spot.
    Now I'm really considering buying bulk tongkat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xant View Post
    Now I'm really considering buying bulk tongkat.
    Why not just wait until Brundel releases new product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post

    Why not just wait until Brundel releases new product?
    Agree. Ive bought alot of different bulk tongkat and the only one ive felt somewhat work is the one used in bioforge. I would definetly advise to wait as this sounds like the different extraction process used for this tongkat creates a superior product not seen before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post
    Took 250 mgs of Tongkat this morning and experienced the nice energy without the heart race & BP increase. I think 250mg is the sweet spot.
    Yesterday I experienced a pretty heavy blood pressure increase. My BP cuff doesnt fit over my arm well so sometimes it gives a wrong reading but I had.
    147/113. Considering I have a pacemaker in my chest this is bad.
    Second reading was 137/57 So Im thinking the bottom reading is off due to cuff not fitting but the 147 is still bad. Im on beta blockers and blood pressure medications. I cant imagine what it would do to someone not on medications. Do any of you guys have blood pressure cuffs?
    If so please take a few readings during the day to get an average.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bswanny View Post
    Agree. Ive bought alot of different bulk tongkat and the only one ive felt somewhat work is the one used in bioforge. I would definetly advise to wait as this sounds like the different extraction process used for this tongkat creates a superior product not seen before.
    For sure this stuff is better than anything we have seen.
    THis based upon the dozen or so guys who have tested it and compared to other brands. Id just wait it out.
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    Ive been looking at Ashwaghanda. Looks like there are some promising studies regarding its ability to elevate LH and T while concurrently lowering PRL and FSH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Ive been looking at Ashwaghanda. Looks like there are some promising studies regarding its ability to elevate LH and T while concurrently lowering PRL and FSH.
    I take Ashwaghanda daily. Only the Sensoril trademarked extract, if that makes a difference.
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    Why is the tongkat causing such high bp rates? I'd be interested to know how this works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Why is the tongkat causing such high bp rates? I'd be interested to know how this works.
    Me too, maybe it will help bring mine up to a more normal level... Been following in the shadows here, looks very promising
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Why is the tongkat causing such high bp rates? I'd be interested to know how this works.
    Could just be me. My levels are already high.
    In other studies it increased heart rate and potentially BP so this isnt a new side effect.
    For most people a slight elevation is fine. We will just have to warn those with hypertension not to take or take with caution.
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    We may just leave the SERM out for expense reasons. Probably we will make a SERM and a test product although they are similar.
    Certain portions of tongkat show promise as SERMS anyways so this may be how it elevates T levels.

    Comparative X-ray and conformational analysis of a new crystal of 13α,21-dihydroeurycomanone with eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia and their anti-estrogenic activity using the uterotrophic assay.
    Teh CH, Abdulghani M, Morita H, Shiro M, Hussin AH, Chan KL.
    Author information
    Abstract
    13 α,21-Dihydroeurycomanone (1), a known quassinoid of Eurycoma longifolia Jack was recrystallized from chloroform into a novel crystal structure in space group P2 (1). Its X-ray data were compared with those of eurycomanone ( 2). Following intraperioneal injections at similar doses of 2.44 µmol/kg/day for 3 consecutive days, 2 displayed comparable potency with tamoxifen but was more potent than 1 in the anti-estrogenic effect against 17 α-ethynylestradiol (EE)-induced uterotrophy of immature rats.
    © Georg Thieme Verlag KG Stuttgart · New York.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Why is the tongkat causing such high bp rates? I'd be interested to know how this works.
    All kinds of supplements can cause high blood pressure

    Anabeta sky rocketed mine I had to stop. Did absolutely nothing but make me feel like crap. Never had high blood pressure either
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons

    All kinds of supplements can cause high blood pressure

    Anabeta sky rocketed mine I had to stop. Did absolutely nothing but make me feel like crap. Never had high blood pressure either
    Anabeta didn't do diddly squat for me either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    Anabeta didn't do diddly squat for me either.
    Just made me hungry as hell
    Everything I say is fictional and for entertainment purposes only. Do not ask me for sources. I dont have any.
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    Yah tons of things and lots of supplements cause an increase in blood pressure.
    Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
    Its just something to note and be aware of.
    With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.

    Probably we will do the T booster
    Maybe a separate Serm
    Pre workout
    Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Yah tons of things and lots of supplements cause an increase in blood pressure.
    Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
    Its just something to note and be aware of.
    With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.

    Probably we will do the T booster
    Maybe a separate Serm
    Pre workout
    Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
    Im a huge backer of intraworkout eaa. Swear the addition to my workout routine saw the biggest gains to me of anything supplement wise. Looking forward to alot of BLR products
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Ive been looking at Ashwaghanda. Looks like there are some promising studies regarding its ability to elevate LH and T while concurrently lowering PRL and FSH.
    I love it. I know I've posted how I'm a noot guy, but ashwaganda at 2.5 percent and higher with bocapa at 40 percent or higher is amazing. It feels narcotic. Not saying to add to current plans, just saying it is an option for another product since you seem to be able to source quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    Anabeta didn't do diddly squat for me either.
    My BP sky rocketed, got really bad fatigue, hot flushes and everytime I have a pre workout or a bit of caffeine I would feel like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I even lost all libido, which is a side effect of HBP.

    I couldnt figure it out, so I stopped the anabeta and it went down 30 points in under 24 hours. Libido came back immediately

    Just a random idea on a decent pre workout blend!

    L-cirtulline
    Micronised GMS
    High quality LCLT
    Agmatine
    Potassium nitrate

    Caffeine
    DPLA
    Synephrine
    Phenylracetam (demiurge) or a noop blend
    A new stim like AMP- citrate

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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel

    Probably we will do the T booster
    Maybe a separate Serm
    Pre workout
    Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
    Would love to see those products ! And buy Them !
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Could just be me. My levels are already high.
    In other studies it increased heart rate and potentially BP so this isnt a new side effect.
    For most people a slight elevation is fine. We will just have to warn those with hypertension not to take or take with caution.
    You know when I dosed tongkat at 500mgs of tongkat I swear my heart was racing and my arms and face were red.When I lewered the dose to the current 250mgs everything is just fine.Without testing my BP I am unable to see how high it was with the 500 mg dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post
    My BP sky rocketed, got really bad fatigue, hot flushes and everytime I have a pre workout or a bit of caffeine I would feel like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I even lost all libido, which is a side effect of HBP.

    I couldnt figure it out, so I stopped the anabeta and it went down 30 points in under 24 hours. Libido came back immediately

    Just a random idea on a decent pre workout blend!

    L-cirtulline
    Micronised GMS
    High quality LCLT
    Agmatine
    Potassium nitrate

    Caffeine
    DPLA
    Synephrine
    Phenylracetam (demiurge) or a noop blend
    A new stim like AMP- citrate

    I tried the new AMP citrate product at 1 scoop,1.5 scoops and 2 scoops and I noticed nothing at all.Kind of disappointing as all the reviews were so good.
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    Proprietary Blend 1942 mg **
    L-Citrulline Malate, Zingerone, Caffeine, 2-Aminoisoheptane (Aconitum Kusnezoffii), Echinopsine (Globe Thistle)
    Caffeine Per Serving 125 mg

    The best preworkout formula I ever had but quickly got discontinued. Was the new E-pharm Clearshot. Luckily I was able to stock up.
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