TST and TRN Metabolites

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by stxnas
    LOL, I guess we were both trying to tell each other the same thing Xtraflossy. We all appreciate you getting involved with this.
    Lol- Have you seen that Siegnfield episode where George forgoes anything to do with women, then gets real smart; always into books, teaching school kids about science.....all because of the lack of sex....(for the next 6 months)
    Yeah- It's kinda like that


  2. I find myself comparing almost everyday to an episode of Seinfeld...Looking forward to those results. It should be interesting.
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  3. Well, Im just posting my GUESS on what it could be.
    I am not a chemist, nor do Ieven know if this is a possibility, but just for S&G: (feel free to post your guess as to what TST may be).

    Synthesis of 13,14-secotestosterone derivatives.

    Khripach VA, Zhabinskii VN, Kuchto AI, Zhiburtovich YY, Fando GP, Lyakhov AS, Govorova AA, Groen MB, van der Louw J, de Groot A.

    Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry, National Academy of Sciences of Belarus, Kuprevich Street 5/2, 220141 Minsk. [email protected]

    A number of testosterone analogs with a 13,14-secosteroidal fragment have been prepared from (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione. The key steps involved stereoselective deiodination of the starting compound with triphenylphosphine and selective protection of the 17-keto group with trimethylsilylcyanide. Removal of iodine at C-13 proceeded with inversion of the configuration at C-13, which has been established by X-ray crystallography. 13,14-Secotestosterone analogues substituted and non-substituted at C-14 have been prepared. The obtained compounds containing flexible CD ring fragments are of great interest for comparative studies in biological tests together with testosterone and other steroids with a rigid tetracyclic skeleton.

    PMID: 15246780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Reasoning:
    (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione.
    - Um,.. "methoxy", "3alpha", "17"-dione = 17b-methoxy-triensterone.

    Lol- just for fun.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Reasoning:
    (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione.
    - Um,.. "methoxy", "3alpha", "17"-dione = 17b-methoxy-triensterone.

    Lol- just for fun.
    Not a bad guess.

    Trienosterone implies that there are three -ene bonds (this one's an androstane), and a single -one (instead of two as in di-one). That compound also has it's methoxy at the 6b position, and not 17b.

    But you may be on to something with the secotestosterone derivatives... I don't know, I gave up and am waiting for the FDA to do their thing, and then ALR to reveal it...

  5. Maybe an isomer of tren. Either the 9 or the 11,12 double bond moved over to the 1 position. It'd be dbol with an extra double bond, and a methoxy of course.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by bigSMokey
    Maybe an isomer of tren. Either the 9 or the 11,12 double bond moved over to the 1 position. It'd be dbol with an extra double bond, and a methoxy of course.
    Well, if it worked like dbol that would be nice, unfortuniately, users are just not getting very impressive relults in comparrision.

    Does anyone know of a good place on the web that I could get information on what chemical structures mean? Things like Hydroxy, methoxy, and what the placement in the structure names imply?
    Ive seen a few good posts here, but Its hard to find them again.
    Basicly, like a structure 101 (but for anabolics) - ?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Well, if it worked like dbol that would be nice, unfortuniately, users are just not getting very impressive relults in comparrision.

    Does anyone know of a good place on the web that I could get information on what chemical structures mean? Things like Hydroxy, methoxy, and what the placement in the structure names imply?
    Ive seen a few good posts here, but Its hard to find them again.
    Basicly, like a structure 101 (but for anabolics) - ?
    I would just check out an organic chemistry book. I think I still have one. Send me your email in a PM and I'll try and send you good literature that you can reference easily.

  8. I don't know anything about this stuff and I'm not sure if this is even relevant...the Q&A that it came from isn't, but I'm not sure if the pic is worthless or not.
    CERI Q&A:

  9. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Well, if it worked like dbol that would be nice, unfortuniately, users are just not getting very impressive relults in comparrision.

    Does anyone know of a good place on the web that I could get information on what chemical structures mean? Things like Hydroxy, methoxy, and what the placement in the structure names imply?
    Ive seen a few good posts here, but Its hard to find them again.
    Basicly, like a structure 101 (but for anabolics) - ?
    Remember that m-dien, which was was methyltren minus and double bond. It turned out to be not nearly as potent or toxic as expected. In fact the initial dose of 1mg was eventually quadrupled by underground labs. So, perhaps in this case a compound with an added double bond could result in lower potency, but also lower toxicity (in comparison to dbol).

    I basically pulled the dbol analog out of the air since, ethically, I don't think this stuff could be much else other than a triene of some sort. If I were this co., I'd be much more worried about misrepresentation (I.e. implying methoxytest is a triene), than the feds finding out the stuff actually is methoxytest.

    But anyways, yes an O-chem book would be the best for finding out what the various functional groups represent. However, as for your other request, steroid structure 101, here is an excellent resource:

    The Nomenclature of Steroids Home Page

    Stop by the first entry, 3S-1 General, first off. It gives the numbering system showing exactly where all these functional groups fall on the steroid skeleton.

    This resource even helped me figure out some possible structures for that monstrous compound, (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione, listed the other day. I'm still stumped on how the cyclo relates to that seco.

  10. I don't think cyclo relates to seco. But, I could be wrong. I'm not familiar with seco. I don't remember that from organic.


    Floss - Klaus put up his own steroid nomenclature PDF on here. Look for that.

  11. S means clockwise direction at the chiral carbon. (Most important group to least important is in the clockwise direction.)

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    I don't think cyclo relates to seco. But, I could be wrong. I'm not familiar with seco. I don't remember that from organic.
    Seco indicate the breaking of a bond at the specified location (here it's 13,14), with the formation of two new alkyl chains. However, from my understanding, when cyclo is introduced in front of this type of term, it indicates that this broken "seco" bond's two new alkyl chains meet up at a new location, forming a new ring, hence the "cyclo". However, if one looks at the ring number layout on a nomenclature page, these 13 & 14 carbons form a very warped molecule if they rebond at 5.

    But at any rate, when considering this exotic rebonding and the halogen, methoxy, etc. substitution, I seriously doubt this or anything similar, could be in TST. The cost would be extreme.

    I think a methoxytren isomer or methoxytest are the only reasonable guesses at this point. With test being the forerunner because the product was discontinued so fast (methoxytren itself is still out there, so why would an isomer be discontinued?).

  13. Oh man , all this chemistry discussion is going to make my head explode.... I have run the TST and TRN .. NICE COMBO , did not break out from this , it seems that is affecting a lot of dudes.. Libido was through the roof on this stuff.. I want to pick up a couple of more bottles before it goes away.. I got a bottle of the Kilo product but from this thread it appears to be crap ..

  14. Quote Originally Posted by raider1
    I got a bottle of the Kilo product but from this thread it appears to be crap ..
    Well, it's something. It apparently isn't a copy of the original but I would assume that it is some anabolic formulation.

  15. Just an update- as most of the stuff on this particular page just went over my head....
    The sample is packaged, in an envelope, stamped and will be mailed tomarrow for testing.
    -Would have dont it today, except it was raining kinda hard when I left for work this morning, and didn't want things to get wet on the way to the mailbox I pass (which, is about 2 miles- not the closest, but on the way)

  16. Quote Originally Posted by yeahright
    Well, it's something. It apparently isn't a copy of the original but I would assume that it is some anabolic formulation.
    I asked them about that, this was the response

    China makes all kinds of Chemicals I canít really see why this one would be any different or harder to make? IMO

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kappaz
    I asked them about that, this was the response

    China makes all kinds of Chemicals I canít really see why this one would be any different or harder to make? IMO
    Well, to make something you have to know what it is. It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that this is a unique compound....so when you try and analyze what it is, there isn't any reference compound to compare it to. ALRI has mentioned this and Bioscience mentioned that they had no luck synthesizing the compound until ALRI told them what to look for.

    This is all just stuff that I've gleaned from various threads and could be completely wrong.....but ALR seemed pretty confident of it and I'd have to defer to his expertise.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by yeahright
    Well, to make something you have to know what it is. It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that this is a unique compound....so when you try and analyze what it is, there isn't any reference compound to compare it to. ALRI has mentioned this and Bioscience mentioned that they had no luck synthesizing the compound until ALRI told them what to look for.

    This is all just stuff that I've gleaned from various threads and could be completely wrong.....but ALR seemed pretty confident of it and I'd have to defer to his expertise.
    IT was also said, (in addition to it not being a metabolite of test) that TST is very detectable.
    Actually synthesizing and figureing out the exact compound structure and makeup is one thing, testing possitive os another. I would assume that what you came up possitive for would be a fairly accurate guess at the compound they were tring to mimic legaly..(?)

  19. I would just like to say , there is alot of questions unanswered about the KS M-TRN but I've been off for 3weeks and kept all my gains. If I was to give my thoughts about it I would say It was like taking about 40mg of Tren EOD. No BS!!!!

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dirtysouthmuscl
    I would just like to say , there is alot of questions unanswered about the KS M-TRN but I've been off for 3weeks and kept all my gains. If I was to give my thoughts about it I would say It was like taking about 40mg of Tren EOD. No BS!!!!
    ALR stated that this wasnt the same compound and that they didnt know how to synthesize it. In reality, I think all the companies are getting their raws from China or somewhere. Plus, based off ALL of the feedback I've read on Trenadrol and Mega-TRN, they seem to be consistent thus implying that it is the same compound.

  21. If the product is no longer made or sold by ALRI, then why do you care if you release the
    chemical formula? Why do you care if someone clones it? You do not sell it anymore or
    at least claim not too. The only reasons that are remotely plausible for you NOT to release
    the EXACT chemical name is that they were illegal and you do not want to incriminate
    yourself publically and/or you are still selling it under a different label name. You should not
    care if some company you have nothing to do with clones a product you claim you no longer
    have nothing to do with.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by oswizzle
    If the product is no longer made or sold by ALRI, then why do you care if you release the
    chemical formula? Why do you care if someone clones it? You do not sell it anymore or
    at least claim not too. The only reasons that are remotely plausible for you NOT to release
    the EXACT chemical name is that they were illegal and you do not want to incriminate
    yourself publically and/or you are still selling it under a different label name. You should not
    care if some company you have nothing to do with clones a product you claim you no longer
    have nothing to do with.
    I have wondered that myself

  23. Just messing around, (No one take this seriously, do not want any rumors starting)

    Trie nosterone - If you add an E you get neosterone. Neosterone is methylandrostenediol which is M4AD. The end of the made-up name is very close to neosterone, hehehe. Ok, I had too much free time at work today.

  24. Anything yet with the lab reports?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Sea223
    Anything yet with the lab reports?
    The sample has been sent, and is in.
    There are only 2 things to be done,.. one is make it volitle, and the other is run the test and compare.

    My sis, who is working there kinda sorta doesn't know exactly what to use to make it volitle,.. so we have to wait for my father to get back from DC (I think DC,.. some conference,.. he mentioned something about China,.. but I think thats later this year- anyways..) to help with that part.
    Running the actual test only takes a minuet.

    I'm sorry things are taking so long, my timing was impecable of course,.. as there is another group using the machine in the meantime.
    It'll happen,.. I just can't give a date. It's not like I sent it to a private lab really. (technicly, I did,.. but you know what I mean).
    Weve had a few conversation about possibilities in the past few weeks. Lol- He is where I was with todays anabolics. He's thinking all effects are placebo. Course, up until not that long ago, I did too (this was before all the good andros came out)
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