The potential for Rhodiola rosea induced sleep disturbance

  1. Registered User
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    965
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    11.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    The potential for Rhodiola rosea induced sleep disturbance


    I've been trying to start a legitimate about this for some time now, but most people who sell rhodiola refuse to accept that there is potential for side-effects. Rhodiola does have stimulant qualities to it acting primarily on the adrenals... perhaps too well?

    So, to the topic at hand: what do the experts at AN know of Rhodiola and sleep disturbance?

    I can say I've only seen 1 study that suggested this. According to it, sensitive persons at high enough doses will experience sleep disturbance akin to caffeine stimulation from rhodiola. I'm obviously one of those people, otherwise I probably wouldn't care so much about this topic.

    It appears that a dose of over 200mg (4% rosavins) per day is enough to interrupt sleep. The higher the rosavin content, the worse it gets.

    Thoughts?

  2. Senior Member
    Outside Backer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,629
    Rep Power
    89664
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    81.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    although not an expert by any means. From personal experience I cant say this has happend. But i will do some research.

    ofcourse. i can take caff at night and usually have no issues with sleep. im not very sensitive.

    so far reviewing some logs of igf-2 hasnt noted any sleep issues. Plus igf-2 has 3% rosavins

    Ill return
    toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
  3. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,721
    Rep Power
    1317321
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.32%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I am not sensitive to stims, but know that I think about it, I have been having trouble sleeping lately (currently taking 4 Anagen & 6 Fenotest). Perhaps the excess rhodiola is the reason...
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    Outside Backer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,629
    Rep Power
    89664
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    81.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    i liked fenotest. mainly for the maple syrup smell lol
    toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
  5. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,721
    Rep Power
    1317321
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.32%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside Backer View Post
    i liked fenotest. mainly for the maple syrup smell lol
    I am having awesome results, but sleep has become difficult the past few days.
  6. Senior Member
    Outside Backer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,629
    Rep Power
    89664
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    81.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Ok just a quick google search pulled several links. Most all the links are cookie cutter of the other links. all state pretty much teh same thing. most state sleep improvement witha side effect of the opposite in some

    The adaptogenic herb Rhodiola rosea (also called golden root) is a medley of chemical compounds, the most important of which are rosarin, rosavin, rosin (the rosavins), salidroside and tyrosol. The purpose of an adaptogen is to support the body in maintaining healthy functions and processes despite a wide range of stressors. Rhodiola rosea promotes improved energy levels and enhanced mental performance.*


    Rhodiola rosea is a popular plant in traditional medical systems in Eastern Europe and Asia with a reputation for stimulating the nervous system, enhancing mood, improving work performance, and reducing fatigue. Rhodiola rosea has been categorized as an adaptogen by Russian researchers due to its observed ability to increase resistance to a variety of chemical, biological, and physical stressors. Research also indicates great utility in asthenic conditions (decline in work performance, sleep difficulties, poor appetite, irritability, headaches, and fatigue) developing subsequent to intense physical or mental strain. The proposed adaptogenic, heart protective, and central nervous system activities of Rhodiola rosea have been attributed primarily to its ability to influence levels and activity of monoamines and opioid peptides such as beta-endorphins.* (Source: Altern Med Rev 2001;6(3):293-302)

    some uncommon side effects include sleep irriatibility for the first few days in some idividuals.

    its basically hit or miss. just from reading a few articles
    toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
  7. Registered User
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    965
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    11.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I am not sensitive to stims, but know that I think about it, I have been having trouble sleeping lately (currently taking 4 Anagen & 6 Fenotest). Perhaps the excess rhodiola is the reason...
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was the rhodiola.

    I can't go above 2 caps of Anagen without having my sleep screwed up.

    BTW, it took me FOREVER to figure out that rhodiola was causing me to have agitated sleep. Two oddities in me: rhodiola and vinpocetine both cause sleep disturbance in me with what would normally be considered a "standard" dose. I'm weird like that.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  8. Senior Member
    Outside Backer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,629
    Rep Power
    89664
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    81.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    your just a wierd fella
    toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
  9. Board Sponsor
    rms80's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,224
    Rep Power
    241542
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    35.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitatis View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was the rhodiola.

    I can't go above 2 caps of Anagen without having my sleep screwed up.

    BTW, it took me FOREVER to figure out that rhodiola was causing me to have agitated sleep. Two oddities in me: rhodiola and vinpocetine both cause sleep disturbance in me with what would normally be considered a "standard" dose. I'm weird like that.
    A,

    That is a good post and a very legitimate observation!!

    200 mg @ 4% is a very healthy dose- we don't go quite that high in our formula

    I have talked with numerous people (testers and customers) who have also taken IGF-2 before bed, and almost 100% of them say that it actually improves their sleep. This is also referenced in several of our customer logs on different boards, where quite a few people are saying the same thing.

    I have seen the same study you are referencing, and my honest opinion is that sleeplessness from rhodiola is completely dosage-related. When I formulated IGF-2, I did keep the caveat of possible sleep disturbances in mind, and I did look at some of the lower effective doses instead of the higher. Another added reason I did this was that too much rhodiola can tend to dry out the joints a little at higher dosages, and I wanted the most effective product with the least potential for any sides.

    As for vinpocetine, it affects me the same way, and I don't really tolerate it very well, even at small doses

    One final thing I have noticed: body weight dependant dosages, for any herb (or drug for that matter), are extremely critical, as there is always a fine line between effective and ineffective!!!!
  10. Registered User
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    965
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    11.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    ^^^
    Good man!

    I had a feeling you already had taken this into account. But you're the first "seller of rhodiola" to actually address the issue. Again, great work! And it's nice to know that when I get around to running some IGF-2, I most likely will not have to worry about sleep problems.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  11. Board Sponsor
    rms80's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,224
    Rep Power
    241542
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    35.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitatis View Post
    ^^^
    Good man!

    I had a feeling you already had taken this into account. But you're the first "seller of rhodiola" to actually address the issue. Again, great work! And it's nice to know that when I get around to running some IGF-2, I most likely will not have to worry about sleep problems.
    We do our best!! And I do agree, a lot of potential sides tend to be ignored by many companies- I think we may actually do a "Potential Sides" addition to our FAQ's for each product- many herbal extracts are drug-like in their effects, so this definitely needs to be addressed- and not just with a standard disclaimer

    Good feedback!!
  12. O.G. Appnut
    Vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    85511
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    32.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    We do our best!! And I do agree, a lot of potential sides tend to be ignored by many companies- I think we may actually do a "Potential Sides" addition to our FAQ's for each product- many herbal extracts are drug-like in their effects, so this definitely needs to be addressed- and not just with a standard disclaimer

    Good feedback!!

    Good call D. The potential sides is something every company should be doing.

    EDIT- Pardon my previous post here.... I was plain old confused.
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    Better Results Through Science
    Success occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
    Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)
  13. Advanced Member
    rysigpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    29
    Posts
    933
    Rep Power
    589
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    99.29%

    I take 7 anagen and 7 fenotest a day (one each at every meal) and sleep normally. Each cap of anagen has 100mg (3% rosavins and 1% salidrosides) and 2 caps fenotest has 175mg (3% rosavins). So that ends up being just over 1300mg. Some fellas on another board are running a dozen of each a day!!! Ummm...now I prolly won't fall asleep tonight! Just jinxed myself!
  14. O.G. Appnut
    Vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    85511
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    32.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    I take 7 anagen and 7 fenotest a day (one each at every meal) and sleep normally. Each cap of anagen has 100mg (3% rosavins and 1% salidrosides) and 2 caps fenotest has 175mg (3% rosavins). So that ends up being just over 1300mg. Some fellas on another board are running a dozen of each a day!!! Ummm...now I prolly won't fall asleep tonight! Just jinxed myself!
    Hows the Anagen and Fenotest treating you?
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    Better Results Through Science
    Success occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
    Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)
  15. Advanced Member
    rysigpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    29
    Posts
    933
    Rep Power
    589
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    99.29%

    7 weeks out from a show, 100g carbs a day with refeed once a week. Strength is steady and has even gone up in a few areas so it is treating me well. Really I can't ask for more out of a natural supp. I really want to try jungle warfare/ B.A.M. stack after my anagen/feno runs out!
  16. O.G. Appnut
    Vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    85511
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    32.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rysigpi View Post
    7 weeks out from a show, 100g carbs a day with refeed once a week. Strength is steady and has even gone up in a few areas so it is treating me well. Really I can't ask for more out of a natural supp. I really want to try jungle warfare/ B.A.M. stack after my anagen/feno runs out!
    Sounds awesome man!
    What show you going to compete in?

    The following subliminal message brought to you by Lanbane
    You want to run IGF-2 and Neovar next.............
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    Better Results Through Science
    Success occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
    Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)
  17. Advanced Member
    rysigpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    29
    Posts
    933
    Rep Power
    589
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    99.29%

    Greater Traverse City Championship in Michigan...also I have some interest in the products. I will have to give them a try one of these days.
  18. Registered User
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    965
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    11.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    The following subliminal message brought to you by Lanbane
    You want to run IGF-2 and Neovar next.............
    LMAO!!

    I first read that as sublingual and was like, "What the hell?"
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  19. O.G. Appnut
    Vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    85511
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    32.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    hahaha... no comment on sublingual messaging
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    Better Results Through Science
    Success occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
    Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)
  20. Board Sponsor
    rms80's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,224
    Rep Power
    241542
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    35.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    hahaha... no comment on sublingual messaging

    Makes me think of Mr. Subliminal on SNL- that was a funny skit
  21. O.G. Appnut
    Vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    85511
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    32.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    You all laugh.... but anyone who reads that post will walk away thinking quietly to themselves, "I really oughta try that IGF-2 and Neovar...." right after they think to themselves, "Man, that Lanbane guy is a tool...."

    Either way, they'll try, AND LOVE, the supplements.
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    Better Results Through Science
    Success occurs when everything you have is APPLIED.
    Have you heard about N.O. Uptake? ;-)
  22. Registered User
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    965
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    11.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post

    Either way, they'll try, AND LOVE, the supplements.


    More of the same, eh?
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  23. Board Sponsor
    rms80's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,224
    Rep Power
    241542
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    35.56%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    You all laugh.... but anyone who reads that post will walk away thinking quietly to themselves, "I really oughta try that IGF-2 and Neovar...." right after they think to themselves, "Man, that Lanbane guy is a tool...."

    Either way, they'll try, AND LOVE, the supplements.
    LOL
  24. Senior Member
    Outside Backer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,629
    Rep Power
    89664
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    81.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitatis View Post
    LMAO!!

    I first read that as sublingual and was like, "What the hell?"
    so did I I swear i was getting ready to type " what is a sublingual Message"

    great minds think alike
    toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 60
    Last Post: 02-04-2013, 06:16 PM
  2. Advanced Muscle Science ...Setting the stage for maximum muscular potential.
    By Royd The Noyd in forum Advanced Muscle Science
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-19-2009, 01:51 PM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-31-2007, 12:41 AM
  4. Why a casein/whey protein combo is the best for growth
    By YellowJacket in forum Supplements
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-25-2006, 01:19 AM
  5. Rhodiola Rosea for my girl
    By mattster in forum Supplements
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-26-2005, 01:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in