Talos. Epi/Stano

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    Talos. Epi/Stano


    Any reason I should not dose Talos with my AM does of Stano and Epi? I have read some say not to take PH/PS with cycle support and others say the difference wont matter. Figure I would ask the makers

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    Re: Talos. Epi/Stano


    Quote Originally Posted by Jbrooks View Post
    Any reason I should not dose Talos with my AM does of Stano and Epi? I have read some say not to take PH/PS with cycle support and others say the difference wont matter. Figure I would ask the makers
    I was always under the assumption that the reason they said this was because of milk thistle. Talos doesnt have milk thistle so i think you will be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    I was always under the assumption that the reason they said this was because of milk thistle. Talos doesnt have milk thistle so i think you will be fine.
    Agree but I was sure if the SAMe would have the same effect since it is trying to protect the liver

    Thoughts ?

    Cheers
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    Re: Talos. Epi/Stano


    Quote Originally Posted by Jbrooks View Post
    Agree but I was sure if the SAMe would have the same effect since it is trying to protect the liver

    Thoughts ?

    Cheers
    I dont see any issues taking them at the same time. Even when people took milk thistle with the DS's or PH's they still made significant gains.
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    OK thanks for your feedback !
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    Re: Talos. Epi/Stano


    Quote Originally Posted by Jbrooks View Post
    OK thanks for your feedback !
    No problem.
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    Take your support supplements at anytime of the day. With or without taking them with your PH/DS should really not effect the up-take of anything in the grand scheme of things. I think people always over analyze supplement timing. For instance if a PreWO product says take withing 30mins of working out on an empty stomach that doesnt mean that this will work best for your body. You might be able to take it 10-15min before working out because your body absorbes the supplement faster then the guy next to you. So in the grande scheme of things we all have to play around with supplement dosing and timing depending on how our own body respondes to the product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlefry View Post
    Take your support supplements at anytime of the day. With or without taking them with your PH/DS should really not effect the up-take of anything in the grand scheme of things. I think people always over analyze supplement timing. For instance if a PreWO product says take withing 30mins of working out on an empty stomach that doesnt mean that this will work best for your body. You might be able to take it 10-15min before working out because your body absorbes the supplement faster then the guy next to you. So in the grande scheme of things we all have to play around with supplement dosing and timing depending on how our own body respondes to the product.
    I had read before that taking TUDCA product like Yours with your PH/DS will help increase absorption and is good way to take the supplements.

    Is that true?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuffguy80 View Post
    I had read before that taking TUDCA product like Yours with your PH/DS will help increase absorption and is good way to take the supplements.

    Is that true?
    I have read this somewhere a couple times to. To my knowledge it is only "bro-lore" but let me see if I can dig up some research articles on the subject and get back to you. However, as I stated before I dont think the supplement timing/dosing is that big of a deal. So if you take them together I dont think it will harm the abosrbtion rate or anything else for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlefry View Post
    I have read this somewhere a couple times to. To my knowledge it is only "bro-lore" but let me see if I can dig up some research articles on the subject and get back to you. However, as I stated before I dont think the supplement timing/dosing is that big of a deal. So if you take them together I dont think it will harm the abosrbtion rate or anything else for that matter.
    Hah! I think that I wrote that claim myself. The reasoning behind it is that TUDCA and PPC are both emulsifiers which can help solubilize lipophilic ingredients in the GI tract. Both TUDCA and PPC can form micelles which facilitate lymphatic absorption. Thus TUDCA/PPC can increase the absorption of lipophilic ingredients, such as steroidal androgens, when they are taken together orally. I'd imagine that the effect would be fairly modest, but it's certainly better to take them together as opposed to taking them apart.
    ...And for what it's worth, other bile acids such as sodium taurocholate are widely used as excipients to improve the oral bioavailability of lipophilic drugs. There's one study at PMID:9510986, and many dozens more like it.

    As for milk thistle: There's a study which states that it decreases AR function in prostate cancer cells. I don't know if we can infer from this that it decreases AR function in a general sense. Even if so, the concentrations which were needed to decrease AR function in prostate cancer cells to a significant degree were very high. Such concentrations seem to be frankly unattainable with any reasonable dose of milk thistle supplements. (It took a concentration of 75uM silybinin, and the bioavailability of polyphenolic flavonoids from milk thistle is exceedingly low... but as the 'active site' for these milk thistle phytochemicals is the liver itself, systemic bioavailability is probably a fairly minor consideration.)
    I can't post links. For more information, Google: "Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP", and "In-vivo Kinetics of Silymarin (Milk Thistle) on Healthy Male Volunteers"
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAntaeus View Post
    Hah! I think that I wrote that claim myself. The reasoning behind it is that TUDCA and PPC are both emulsifiers which can help solubilize lipophilic ingredients in the GI tract. Both TUDCA and PPC can form micelles which facilitate lymphatic absorption. Thus TUDCA/PPC can increase the absorption of lipophilic ingredients, such as steroidal androgens, when they are taken together orally. I'd imagine that the effect would be fairly modest, but it's certainly better to take them together as opposed to taking them apart.
    ...And for what it's worth, other bile acids such as sodium taurocholate are widely used as excipients to improve the oral bioavailability of lipophilic drugs. There's one study at PMID:9510986, and many dozens more like it.

    As for milk thistle: There's a study which states that it decreases AR function in prostate cancer cells. I don't know if we can infer from this that it decreases AR function in a general sense. Even if so, the concentrations which were needed to decrease AR function in prostate cancer cells to a significant degree were very high. Such concentrations seem to be frankly unattainable with any reasonable dose of milk thistle supplements. (It took a concentration of 75uM silybinin, and the bioavailability of polyphenolic flavonoids from milk thistle is exceedingly low... but as the 'active site' for these milk thistle phytochemicals is the liver itself, systemic bioavailability is probably a fairly minor consideration.)
    I can't post links. For more information, Google: "Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP", and "In-vivo Kinetics of Silymarin (Milk Thistle) on Healthy Male Volunteers"
    There you go, a response from the big man himself!
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