Dosing Focus

[alwaysfirst]

I'm starting Focus on Monday and have a question about dosing: Should I take it first thing in the morning before breakfast or after and can I take it with fat burners and caffein?

 

[hvactech]

it would be best to dose first thing as you would notice the effects felt earlier in the day and then carry on through out, i see no reason not to dose all those together...

 

[alwaysfirst]

Cool, this gonna be fun!

 

[Colin]

it would be best to dose first thing as you would notice the effects felt earlier in the day and then carry on through out, i see no reason not to dose all those together...

Agreed.

At the very least,drop the caffiene.Focus has a much cleaner effect on CNS stimulation than caffiene.

 

[alwaysfirst]

mmh, how long does it take to "feel" effect from Focus? I took it the last 2 mornings when my alarm went off and accidentally feel back to sleep both days..?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

There was a guy that logged it here a couple months ago and preferred to take half upon waking and the other half early afternoon.
Experiment both ways and see how you like it.

 

[alwaysfirst]

There was a guy that logged it here a couple months ago and preferred to take half upon waking and the other half early afternoon.
Experiment both ways and see how you like it.

Can I take it with food? If so I try to dose it with breakfast since I workout 2 hr after and take caffein then.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Bump

I would like some answer since I'm excited about Focus! I'm not getting any effect and want to know what I can do to make it better?

 

[Colin]

Can I take it with food? If so I try to dose it with breakfast since I workout 2 hr after and take caffein then.

Bump

I would like some answer since I'm excited about Focus! I'm not getting any effect and want to know what I can do to make it better?

Yes,Focus can be taken with food.

I believe that it should be dosed 1 to 2 times a day,starting off at 1 dosage per day.Allow sufficient time to pass before deciding wether or not to increase dosing to 2 capsules a day.

Focus works on a much different platform than a CNS stimulant like caffiene does,so one should allow sufficient time for its effects on neuronal growth .

The action of Focus is not immediate for most people. The benefits are slow building. Some benefits come within a few days, others come in a few weeks. Focus works by both electro-chemical enhancement and neurological growth enhancement. Growth of neurons takes time -- its not something that happens an hour before a workout.Focus will certainly enhance your workouts, but it will be a slow cumulative effect.So it's best ,in most cases,to stick with one dosage per day.At least for the first 2 weeks.

I would strongly recommend tapering your caffiene or pre w/o stimulant dosing downward while using Focus.

 

[Colin]

Can I take it with food? If so I try to dose it with breakfast since I workout 2 hr after and take caffein then.

I should have posted this up with my first response.

This post by Jake from Anteus Labs that I'm qouting below is an excellent read on how to maximize effects from oral PH's;with regard to optimal dosing time frames i.e.empty stomach dosing against dosing with meals.I also suggest reading part 2,at this link....
http://antaeuslabs.blogspot.com/2012/03/bioavailability-ii-thoughts-and.html?m=1



Thursday, February 16, 2012
Oral bioavailability: Food intake and absorption.
"Bioavailability" (F) is, in simple terms, defined as:

F = Fa * Fg * Fh

Where...
Fa = The fraction of the dose which is absorbed.
Fg = The fraction of the dose which escapes extrahepatic metabolism. (This is common & is not given enough attention. Examples: CYP-mediated metabolism in the intestinal wall, SULT-mediated conjugation in the stomach, acetyltransferase-mediated metabolism of transdermals in the skin, etc.)
Fh = The fraction of the dose which escapes metabolism by the liver.

So if a compound taken orally was fully absorbed, and was not metabolized into any degradation products before reaching systemic circulation, it has an oral bioavailability of 100%. (F=1.0*1.0*1.0) Theophylline is a good example of a drug with virtually 100% oral bioavailability.
If a different compound taken orally was 50% absorbed, and half of the absorbed amount was metabolized in the gut, and the other half of the absorbed amount was metabolized by the liver, it has an oral bioavailability of only 12.5%. (F=0.5*0.5*0.5)

Pretty simple, I think.

...What has now become apparent is that there are only two possible ways to increase oral bioavailability: (1) Increase absorption, and (2) reduce the extent of first-pass metabolic reduction.

#1 is easy to achieve with compounds, such as steroids and triterpenes, which are lipophilic and insoluble in water. Although they're not well emulsified or absorbed on an empty stomach, the body can emulsify them using the same mechanisms used to solubilize dietary fats and fat-soluble vitamins. These compounds/drugs should therefore be taken with food. There are multiple possible mechanisms involved...
--Food-induced gastric and intestinal secretions can impact drug dissolution -- bile salts, phospholipids, free fatty acids from TAG hydrolysis, and food components in GI fluids can help emulsify poorly-water-soluble compounds.
--Food-induced gastrointestinal PH changes can improve the solubility of poorly-soluble acids. (Poorly-soluble bases are less susceptible to this effect -- and in some rare cases this may even decrease bioavailability.)
--High-fat meals lead to the formation of chylomicrons in the small intestine. Chylomicrons are triglyceride/phospholipid/cholesterol-based globules which incorporate lipophilic small molecules & deliver them from the intestine to the bloodstream via the lymphatic system. Compounds which have been incorporated into chylomicrons bypass first-pass metabolism in the liver.
--Meal consumption slows gastric emptying, so compounds taken with meals spend more time in the upper GI tract, and therefore have more time for emulsification/dispersion.

...These effects, all taken together, can make a big difference. The bioavailability of Danazol in humans was increased 400% by the intake of a high-fat meal; its solubility in the GI tract increased by 500%; Cmax, or 'peak blood concentration', increased by ~250%. (ref) Similar effects were noted in many other oral steroids, such as andriol (ref), progesterone (ref), norethisterone (ref), spironolactone (ref), megestrol acetate (ref); in other lipophilic drugs, such as cilostazol (ref), rutapidine (ref), fenofibrate (ref), rifalazil (ref), halofantrine (ref); and in natural triterpenes such as boswellic acid (ref).

When taken with food, the bioavailability of small hydrophilic compounds -- such as caffeine, creatine, theophylline, metformin, ibuprofen, resveratrol, and morphine -- typically does not change. But although the extent of absorption will not change, the rate of absorption will be slightly slower... Peak blood concentrations may take 30-160 minutes longer to achieve, on average, due to delayed gastric clearance.


Food should not be taken with those (rather rare) compounds which cannot passively permeate the intestinal membrane. Absorption of these compounds into the bloodstream is carried out by intestinal transporter proteins -- such as the OATPs -- and many components in food and bile inhibit the function of these absorptive transporters. Thyroxine (T4) and digoxin are OATP2 substrates and are more bioavailable when taken on an empty stomach.
(Note: There aren't that many transporter proteins, and they're easily saturated, so drugs that are exclusively absorbed via transporters need to be effective in very small doses --- the two examples given, thyroxine and digoxin, are both usually dosed in the micrograms.)

Even rarer are drugs, such as ciprofrolaxin and alendronic acid, which form insoluble complexes with Ca or Mg. (From dairy products, supplements, or antacids.) Drugs of this sort need to be taken with lots of water on an empty stomach, or they can actually be rendered totally useless.


So, to summarize food's effects on bioavailability:
If you're taking oral androgens, lipophilic drugs, or lipophilic phytochemicals such as ursolic acid or curcumin, take your doses with food. If you want maximum bioavailability, take them with a high-fat meal.
If you're taking small hydrophilic drugs or phytochemicals orally, food won't influence bioavailability... But if you're taking ibuprofen for a headache, you'll probably want to take it on an empty stomach. Conversely, if you want to delay caffeine absorption, take it with food...
If you're taking anything which is a transporter-protein substrate and cannot permeate the intestinal wall via diffusion, or if you're taking anything which can form a complex with dietary minerals, take it without food & on an empty stomach.

So much for that.

There are more things to discuss when speaking of oral bioavailability -- in particular, other ways to possibly increase it -- but I think I'll write about that another time.

-Jake

 

[alwaysfirst]

Thanks for getting back with me even that I feel a little confused now, lol!

I stick with it for a little longer and dose in the morning

 

[Colin]

No worries.

What has you a little bit confused?

What other supplements are you taking?

If you're taking in a lot of pre w/o stims,caffiene and the like,that could very well be the reason for your lethargy.

 

[alwaysfirst]

No worries.

What has you a little bit confused?

What other supplements are you taking?

If you're taking in a lot of pre w/o stims,caffiene and the like,that could very well be the reason for your lethargy.

Confused if better to take with food or not?
I'm not feeling lethargy but haven't felt anything from Focus yet and I am not a morning person and are always very tired in the mornings. I usually wake up, eat breakfast and then go back to bed for another 30min before I get ready to go to the gym.
Maybe I should take it an hour after breakfast which is an hour before I take my Caffein and pre workout drink?

 

[Colin]

Confused if better to take with food or not?
I'm not feeling lethargy but haven't felt anything from Focus yet and I am not a morning person and are always very tired in the mornings. I usually wake up, eat breakfast and then go back to bed for another 30min before I get ready to go to the gym.
Maybe I should take it an hour after breakfast which is an hour before I take my Caffein and pre workout drink?

Low bioavailability isn't really an issue with Focus but based on your described state upon waking and stimulant usage,as well as the references I posted earlier.....and that I believe all hormonals should be dosed upon waking as to mimic the body's natural rise in test and thus lessen the chancr of a detrimental impact on HTPA functioning,I suggest taking Focus with your breakfast.A higher fat breakfast would be preferable (15 or more grams) so if you don't hit around a tablespoon or more worth of fat in your first meal,dose some healthy fat with it;MCT oil/ DAG, olive oil or fish oil.
I think that a confounding problem you're dealing with is excessive stimulants,which certainly will leave the CNS in poor shape each morning,so I'd slowly taper back on the caffeine & pre work out usage.

Doing all of the above will help to enhance the desired effects of Focus,I would bet my left testicle on it.You have described all of the symptoms of "CNS burnout".While one of the downstream effects of Focus is to help alleviate such,one must employ a healthy approach to avoid such over training,you are attempting to fight your body's natural tendencies with caffiene upon more stimulants.Focus is not a magic pill,you need to have your house in order,so to speak,to realize the benefits imparted by Focus.

I hope you find this advice helpful,I personally have made similar errors in judgement so I am speaking with experience.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Low bioavailability isn't really an issue with Focus but based on your described state upon waking and stimulant usage,as well as the references I posted earlier.....and that I believe all hormonals should be dosed upon waking as to mimic the body's natural rise in test and thus lessen the chancr of a detrimental impact on HTPA functioning,I suggest taking Focus with your breakfast.A higher fat breakfast would be preferable (15 or more grams) so if you don't hit around a tablespoon or more worth of fat in your first meal,dose some healthy fat with it;MCT oil/ DAG, olive oil or fish oil.
I think that a confounding problem you're dealing with is excessive stimulants,which certainly will leave the CNS in poor shape each morning,so I'd slowly taper back on the caffeine & pre work out usage.

Doing all of the above will help to enhance the desired effects of Focus,I would bet my left testicle on it.You have described all of the symptoms of "CNS burnout".While one of the downstream effects of Focus is to help alleviate such,one must employ a healthy approach to avoid such over training,you are attempting to fight your body's natural tendencies with caffiene upon more stimulants.Focus is not a magic pill,you need to have your house in order,so to speak,to realize the benefits imparted by Focus.

I hope you find this advice helpful,I personally have made similar errors in judgement so I am speaking with experience.

Thanks! I start dosing it at breakfast instead. I'm eating a hight fat diet already so I should be any problem

Thanks for the help, I let you know how it goes!

 

[Colin]

Thanks! I start dosing it at breakfast instead. I'm eating a hight fat diet already so I should be any problem

Thanks for the help, I let you know how it goes!

Sure man,I'm glad to help.

I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback on how you make out with Focus.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Sure man,I'm glad to help.

I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback on how you make out with Focus.

I'm excited! I probably starting Alpha GPC and Piracetam next week also, thinking about getting ALCAR? "Matrix focus" is what I'm looking for

 

[Colin]

I'm excited! I probably starting Alpha GPC and Piracetam next week also, thinking about getting ALCAR? "Matrix focus" is what I'm looking for

Piracetam and ALCAR would be good adjuncts,especially while tapering back on caffiene.

 

[alwaysfirst]

It been 4 weeks now with Focus and I haven't felt anything I was so excited also...

 

[abformulations]

It been 4 weeks now with Focus and I haven't felt anything I was so excited also...

Still nothing?

 

[Mission1]

Still nothing?

What do you mean from their reps? How long does this guy have to wait for a response until the bottles totally empty ??

 

[abformulations]

What do you mean from their reps? How long does this guy have to wait for a response until the bottles totally empty ??

Lmao! I wanted to see if it did take until bottle was done.

 

[Mission1]

Lmao! I wanted to see if it did take until bottle was done.

Here's a guy just looking for a little advice. Very shady.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Still nothing?

I'm honestly sad about this, I was so excited and I'm not feelin anything... and I'm really trying to feel something

 

[alwaysfirst]

Can it be that I have a "bad" bottle?

 

[abformulations]

I'm honestly sad about this, I was so excited and I'm not feelin anything... and I'm really trying to feel something

That sucks as$. Focus should've been a good thing

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

That is odd. Perhaps your brain is already the best it can be.
The other logs here and the ones I've seen at PHF all showed it working!

 

[Mission1]

Wishy brain was.

 

[alwaysfirst]

That is odd. Perhaps your brain is already the best it can be.
The other logs here and the ones I've seen at PHF all showed it working!

I'm tired a lot and started this to be more "clear minded" but didn't get anything of it... I really wish I did!

 

[Cordeen]

Unfortunately there will always be non-responders.

 

[abformulations]

What's the highest anyone has gone on dosage with focus? I'm thinking of double dosing.

 

[abformulations]

What's the highest anyone has gone on dosage with focus? I'm thinking of double dosing.

Bump for anyone who's used it

 

[alwaysfirst]

What's the highest anyone has gone on dosage with focus? I'm thinking of double dosing.

You probably need to, I didn't feel anything from what was recommended

 

[kenpoengineer]

What's the highest anyone has gone on dosage with focus? I'm thinking of double dosing.

I double dosed it for 6 weeks and experienced about 5 lbs of gains along with strength increases. The "feel good" mood it delivered was great too.

 

[abformulations]

You probably need to, I didn't feel anything from what was recommended

Yea when I used lean I triple dosed. It was good.

All AF products look under dosed.

 

[abformulations]

I double dosed it for 6 weeks and experienced about 5 lbs of gains along with strength increases. The "feel good" mood it delivered was great too.

Awesome. 5lbs is not to shabby at all.

Will do

 

[ikeNball]

Anybody have experience dosing as recommended on the bottle ? Also can i use it in conjunction with Prodigy (test booster) and pre workouts w/ stims ?

 

[abformulations]

Anybody have experience dosing as recommended on the bottle ? Also can i use it in conjunction with Prodigy (test booster) and pre workouts w/ stims ?

Ik with pre workout it's not needed but you can. Just don't go caffeine crazy. Supposedly focus gives enough drive and focus. Also a test booster is not needed during focus. Use it for pct

I don't recommend the dosage they provide. To low.