Is is possible to make prostan an injectible?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Klaus
    Now that I think of it, prostan with an ester could be a very interesting steroid for injection. If it isn't illegal, perhaps some supplement companies might offer prostan acetate?
    I can't see why this would be difficult. I'm sure the throngs of organic chemists out there can cook something up. It's been done before, why not again? I'm thiking it might be on par with masteron or something to that effect.

  3. I thought about it too, a longer acting inj version of prostanazol would kick ass it would allow us to run it during the whole cycle without worrying about hepatoxicity

  4. Exactly, tell those bastard to get on it and sell it to me for 50 cents a gram.

  5. i just hate needles and the idea of injecting and screwing up. thats why im lookin for a transderm route.... tell you how it works when i get around to it.

  6. I don't mind needles. I like the infrequent poking (2x a week) rather than dosing orals throughout the day. I am very forgetful and my dumb ass misses doses sometimes.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by E-Swift25
    I don't mind needles. I like the infrequent poking (2x a week) rather than dosing orals throughout the day. I am very forgetful and my dumb ass misses doses sometimes.
    for a bi weekly dosing wouldnt that require some kind of ester? i dont think that anyone has even shown that prostan posses this and if it were to be made into an injectable in its current state its sold in it would still require a daily dosing, if not multiple daily shots, which means a whole lotta stickin.... no fun.

  8. I'm betting snorting pure prostan powder would be all the fun one needs. 2 x 35mg ED would probably be LOTS.

    Now if the chinamen would only come up with pricing...

  9. ya we were tring to look into a couple chem houses over there but none of them have prostan listed as it is on the label. i suppose they prob use the andro name as opposed to the etio-chan ish or whatever it is. if any one figures out what it is let me know and maybe we can cook something up.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Klaus
    Ask for 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate
    Sorry Klaus but you left yourself open to a chemistry question since you knew the molecule name. Would this be lipophilic? If so, then you could probably snort it. I still think it would be better in an oil solution in order to gain access to lymphatic system. Get stanazol. It's probably a lot cheaper in powder.

  11. Why would snorting it not be effective, in simple terms?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Get stanazol. It's probably a lot cheaper in powder.
    a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.

    not that i would even try it but for the sake of knowledge could you give a more elaboarate reason why a stripped or raw version of prostan wouldnt be effectively absorbed nasaly? wouldnt it be absorbed through the more membranous tissue like putting it under your tounge? or are the tissues too different between the 2?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by poopypants
    a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.
    Where were you expecting to get the Prostanazol Bulk Powder? I was assuming from overseas. You will run the same risk. It was only legal because it flew in under the radar. prostanazol was one of the traget supps for that article and was found to contain steroidal compunds from what i remember from reading. I have a good feeling that Customs won't differentiate.
    Try taking with grapefruit juice.

  14. Well I think prostanozol is still actually legal otherwise anyone selling it is asking for SERIOUS trouble. The laws themselves do not prohibit it. Especially raw, bulk powder is a research chem and not a "supplement".

    I think it's very much worth a shot. It isn't illegal to possess, for SURE. Anyways I'mma try my hardest to get a quote for it and take it from there.

    Minimum quantity would probably be a kilo or more. I did get a quote for Max LMG powder and it was to the tune of $400 for 100g. That's a LOT of powder, but that's also a lot of money if they require a minimum purchase of a kilo.

    OTOH, they probably don't mind dividing the order and shipping at multiple places. I think it's enough on that particular angle. I believe I am not exactly offending but mods please delete if I am. Sometimes the line is a little blurry. Thanks.

  15. I asked someone to comment on this, as it is becoming an interesting topic.

  16. The bottle I have says {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol. This nomenclature is a bit confusing. It does not appear to be the acetate ester of the free alcohol. Tetrahydropyran is a cyclic ether that looks like cyclohexane except it has the ether link in place of one of the carbons like THF. If this is an alcohol of that, I am not sure what position the sub is at. The ether oxygen can not be directly linked to the hormone since it is already connected to 2 carbons in the ring so I am a bit confused. It must be connected to another carbon, maybe the same one with the hyroxyl group. If it is the ether I am assuming, then intramuscular, transdermal and intranasal techniques are quite pointless. It is very well suited to be absorbed orally due to it's high lipophilic character and chemical resistance to acid conditions. Aliphatic ethers are generally not extensively metabolized either, so it is probably acting on the receptor as is. Also, the free, demethylated stanazol has zero activity anyway, so metabolism is probably undesirable. 17-ethers are often even more active than their methylated versions, so I am surprised that it is not as strong or stronger than Winni. This probably has to do with electronic or steric factors involving the A ring. Maybe I am totally off here, but the name is too vague to know for sure. If you want to extract/isolate it and try anyway, get a list of the inactives and I'll help. If you can't find one, I'd suggest acetone or dioxane to try first and cross your figures! The MW should be roughly 416 amu.

  17. The fillers are: microcrystalline cellulose, modified cornstarch, magnesium stearate, silica.

    Knowing the actual structure is very very important for getting bulk powder made. ALRI isn't going to make it, heck I might as well get it some other way.

    Klaus said the acetate ester would be 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate but I really would prefer without any ester since that is what we have been using all along. Why spend $5000 for a couple kilos of stuff that might end up useless?

    I'm in love with prostanozol. Does it show?

  18. I have contacted some chinese chemical houses regarding this with the etioallocholane name and they haven't a clue what it means. That's why the actual andro name is important.

    Klaus, that little diagram will be seen by chemists in China come monday morning there, which is REAL soon now.

    Thanks man.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Klaus
    ... Perhaps we should be asking for {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-acetate instead of 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate ...
    I bet that THP ether (in your diagram) is what it is alright. The problem is that the free alcohol is not active. The acetate would offer a suitable IM form, but it would hydrolyze to the same inactive compound. I'd bet the ether is intrinsic to the activity, not just the oral bioavailability of this compound.

  20. Well, compounds like this are generally not well metabolized. I'm using studies on diphenhydramine as a ref here because I can't find much on steroid ethers. Mixed aliphatic/aromatics are O-dealkylated in many cases (like phenacetin --> acetaminophen). So the choice of attachments here (THP) seems strange. A cyclohexyl-'1-alkoxy or 1-ene would offer easier metabolism to the free 17b alcohol I'd think. It's not that it's "inactive", just much weaker than Winstrol would be. If it is metabolized to the free steroid, that may explain the high dose requirement. Now I'm interested in some transdermal or IM experimentation! I just don't have time for splitting and making esters these days though. Will be quite busy for months, so it's up to you Klaus. You could extract and cleave with an HI/H2O reflux and make a prop ester if you have the time.

  21. wow when i asked for Dr D to come over here and have a looksy i wasnt expecing to have an all out chemistry lesson! this is awesome though and its always better when we have 2 chemists (klaus) discussing a compound and its possibilities. all this talk has made me even more excited. so am i correct in under sanding that a chem wharehouse would be sending a prostan ace version and is that the exact same compound found in the current prostan? or would there be required alterations to make it into of of the discussed variables (oral, IM, transD). well this is awesome and i wish i had a little more chemistry knowledge and the means to perform some of these tests. im currently waitng thogh for my bottle of prostan and will be expieramenting with the fina method to strip the fillers and see what kind of yeild i recieve (if any is lost in the process). i was gonna run an expeiramental trans with it afterwards and see if it was effective whatsover but i may hold off until we find out if absorbtion and metabolization would even be effective via transdermal. am i wrong in thinking that the absorbtion transdermally is dependant on the added transderm ingredients? meaning that it just has a problem metabolizing? is this cause something happend through the ingestion route that changes the compound into an active form? sorry if i dont sound like i know what im talking about cause i dont im only guessing/speculating.

  22. nice thanks for the feed back, and ill def keep in mind the added water for when i strip the fillers. i also read a homebrew version (in the homebrew or transderm section cant remember but it was titled making transderm from 4-AD caps) which told a different method used to strip the fillers, now im pretty sure i allready know the answer but im wondering what would be the prefered methoed between the 2? ill look up the other and post it too.

  23. here it is

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjoe15
    I desolved my capped 4ad in acetone (e.g. most nail polish removers) then I filtered it through coffee filters which got rid of all the fillers and crap that was capped with it. The acetone acts as a solvent desolving the 4ad or something along those lines. I then left the filtered acetone to evaporate, I also speeded up this prosess by lightly heating it. I emphasise lightly as acetone is flamable. You should be left with crystals which is your pure 4ad. I added this to a nor transdermal and bang I was good to go. I also had a nice high end product, I used about 2g of 4ad in caps and got about 1.5-1.8g of 4ad. It could of been more if I didnt spill a little here and there lol.
    i would think the more refined fina method would prob be better but for the sake of cost would it be worth it to try it in this manner? or is it better off just using the fina?

  24. Klaus is correct. A ketal can be hydrolyzed in human metabolism. He was using the term acetal which was throwing me off. I would like to see a longer acting ester of this though. The acetate may not be very soluble, and this compound is weak enough that large amounts of oil would need to be injected daily if that's the case.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Klaus is correct. A ketal can be hydrolyzed in human metabolism. He was using the term acetal which was throwing me off. I would like to see a longer acting ester of this though. The acetate may not be very soluble, and this compound is weak enough that large amounts of oil would need to be injected daily if that's the case.
    Honestly though Dr. D & Klaus, do you think the possible increased potency merits the amount of effort involved?
    I guess I am too simple minded but I would figure just sucking down some grapefruit juice an hour before and taking the prostanazol orally with some oil would give similar results.
    Grapefruit juice usually helps with drugs that have low oral bioavailability.
    Now if you are talking attaching long esters to make it possible to inject EOD or so, that's a different story

  26. I'm with jonny21. I just think prostanozol is underdosed and that paying through the nose for 60 caps when 10 caps a day is a doable dosage is absolutely insane. For those of us who like to stay legal, that is. I'm just trying to figure out what to order when I get my half-pound of prostanozol powder. Which I guess I have even though this discussion is very interesting from a theoretical point of view. For me, that is. JMO.

  27. Short. I think I'mma try pinning this stuff as is. You're kinda saying a bottle of 60 x 25mg = 1500mg would last ~4 weeks. That's GREAT 'cause 50mg ED orally don't do squat.

    EDIT: 12 chinese chemists will shortly receive a request for quote on this. If this gives no results, well, then, I'll just have to scrounge every supplement store for the stuff in bottles and convert it myself.

  28. "... Some time ago, they abandoned ketal and assumed acetal to include any diether of geminal diols. Later though, they reinstated ketal, but made it a subclass of acetal ..."

    Your making me feel old! I think I remember that now, but I'm not sure!! (lol) If I have time next month, I may prep a hex or prop ester of this, just for kicks. It's like everyone has said though, the stuff is weak. I like the hardness it gives, but it may be too weak to be worth pursuing. However, if the oral BA is only 15% as you have guessed, it may be more potent that I has originally assumed by IM route. The lymphatic absorbtion with oral delivery of the ether makes me wonder if that number is higher though.

  29. Hm... One chem house is asking wether or not I will need more than 10kg a month.

    I dunno, that's 300,000 mg ED. Pretty high. I'll reply "no" I guess.

  30. why can't I see the third page.

    An inj prost with ester (like cyp) would be awesome.


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