Is is possible to make prostan an injectible?

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    Why would snorting it not be effective, in simple terms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Get stanazol. It's probably a lot cheaper in powder.
    a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.

    not that i would even try it but for the sake of knowledge could you give a more elaboarate reason why a stripped or raw version of prostan wouldnt be effectively absorbed nasaly? wouldnt it be absorbed through the more membranous tissue like putting it under your tounge? or are the tissues too different between the 2?
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants
    a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.
    Where were you expecting to get the Prostanazol Bulk Powder? I was assuming from overseas. You will run the same risk. It was only legal because it flew in under the radar. prostanazol was one of the traget supps for that article and was found to contain steroidal compunds from what i remember from reading. I have a good feeling that Customs won't differentiate.
    Try taking with grapefruit juice.
    •   
       

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    Well I think prostanozol is still actually legal otherwise anyone selling it is asking for SERIOUS trouble. The laws themselves do not prohibit it. Especially raw, bulk powder is a research chem and not a "supplement".

    I think it's very much worth a shot. It isn't illegal to possess, for SURE. Anyways I'mma try my hardest to get a quote for it and take it from there.

    Minimum quantity would probably be a kilo or more. I did get a quote for Max LMG powder and it was to the tune of $400 for 100g. That's a LOT of powder, but that's also a lot of money if they require a minimum purchase of a kilo.

    OTOH, they probably don't mind dividing the order and shipping at multiple places. I think it's enough on that particular angle. I believe I am not exactly offending but mods please delete if I am. Sometimes the line is a little blurry. Thanks.
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    I asked someone to comment on this, as it is becoming an interesting topic.
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    The bottle I have says {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol. This nomenclature is a bit confusing. It does not appear to be the acetate ester of the free alcohol. Tetrahydropyran is a cyclic ether that looks like cyclohexane except it has the ether link in place of one of the carbons like THF. If this is an alcohol of that, I am not sure what position the sub is at. The ether oxygen can not be directly linked to the hormone since it is already connected to 2 carbons in the ring so I am a bit confused. It must be connected to another carbon, maybe the same one with the hyroxyl group. If it is the ether I am assuming, then intramuscular, transdermal and intranasal techniques are quite pointless. It is very well suited to be absorbed orally due to it's high lipophilic character and chemical resistance to acid conditions. Aliphatic ethers are generally not extensively metabolized either, so it is probably acting on the receptor as is. Also, the free, demethylated stanazol has zero activity anyway, so metabolism is probably undesirable. 17-ethers are often even more active than their methylated versions, so I am surprised that it is not as strong or stronger than Winni. This probably has to do with electronic or steric factors involving the A ring. Maybe I am totally off here, but the name is too vague to know for sure. If you want to extract/isolate it and try anyway, get a list of the inactives and I'll help. If you can't find one, I'd suggest acetone or dioxane to try first and cross your figures! The MW should be roughly 416 amu.
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    The fillers are: microcrystalline cellulose, modified cornstarch, magnesium stearate, silica.

    Knowing the actual structure is very very important for getting bulk powder made. ALRI isn't going to make it, heck I might as well get it some other way.

    Klaus said the acetate ester would be 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate but I really would prefer without any ester since that is what we have been using all along. Why spend $5000 for a couple kilos of stuff that might end up useless?

    I'm in love with prostanozol. Does it show?
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    I have contacted some chinese chemical houses regarding this with the etioallocholane name and they haven't a clue what it means. That's why the actual andro name is important.

    Klaus, that little diagram will be seen by chemists in China come monday morning there, which is REAL soon now.

    Thanks man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus
    ... Perhaps we should be asking for {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-acetate instead of 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate ...
    I bet that THP ether (in your diagram) is what it is alright. The problem is that the free alcohol is not active. The acetate would offer a suitable IM form, but it would hydrolyze to the same inactive compound. I'd bet the ether is intrinsic to the activity, not just the oral bioavailability of this compound.
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    Well, compounds like this are generally not well metabolized. I'm using studies on diphenhydramine as a ref here because I can't find much on steroid ethers. Mixed aliphatic/aromatics are O-dealkylated in many cases (like phenacetin --> acetaminophen). So the choice of attachments here (THP) seems strange. A cyclohexyl-'1-alkoxy or 1-ene would offer easier metabolism to the free 17b alcohol I'd think. It's not that it's "inactive", just much weaker than Winstrol would be. If it is metabolized to the free steroid, that may explain the high dose requirement. Now I'm interested in some transdermal or IM experimentation! I just don't have time for splitting and making esters these days though. Will be quite busy for months, so it's up to you Klaus. You could extract and cleave with an HI/H2O reflux and make a prop ester if you have the time.
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    wow when i asked for Dr D to come over here and have a looksy i wasnt expecing to have an all out chemistry lesson! this is awesome though and its always better when we have 2 chemists (klaus) discussing a compound and its possibilities. all this talk has made me even more excited. so am i correct in under sanding that a chem wharehouse would be sending a prostan ace version and is that the exact same compound found in the current prostan? or would there be required alterations to make it into of of the discussed variables (oral, IM, transD). well this is awesome and i wish i had a little more chemistry knowledge and the means to perform some of these tests. im currently waitng thogh for my bottle of prostan and will be expieramenting with the fina method to strip the fillers and see what kind of yeild i recieve (if any is lost in the process). i was gonna run an expeiramental trans with it afterwards and see if it was effective whatsover but i may hold off until we find out if absorbtion and metabolization would even be effective via transdermal. am i wrong in thinking that the absorbtion transdermally is dependant on the added transderm ingredients? meaning that it just has a problem metabolizing? is this cause something happend through the ingestion route that changes the compound into an active form? sorry if i dont sound like i know what im talking about cause i dont im only guessing/speculating.
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    nice thanks for the feed back, and ill def keep in mind the added water for when i strip the fillers. i also read a homebrew version (in the homebrew or transderm section cant remember but it was titled making transderm from 4-AD caps) which told a different method used to strip the fillers, now im pretty sure i allready know the answer but im wondering what would be the prefered methoed between the 2? ill look up the other and post it too.
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    here it is

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjoe15
    I desolved my capped 4ad in acetone (e.g. most nail polish removers) then I filtered it through coffee filters which got rid of all the fillers and crap that was capped with it. The acetone acts as a solvent desolving the 4ad or something along those lines. I then left the filtered acetone to evaporate, I also speeded up this prosess by lightly heating it. I emphasise lightly as acetone is flamable. You should be left with crystals which is your pure 4ad. I added this to a nor transdermal and bang I was good to go. I also had a nice high end product, I used about 2g of 4ad in caps and got about 1.5-1.8g of 4ad. It could of been more if I didnt spill a little here and there lol.
    i would think the more refined fina method would prob be better but for the sake of cost would it be worth it to try it in this manner? or is it better off just using the fina?
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    Klaus is correct. A ketal can be hydrolyzed in human metabolism. He was using the term acetal which was throwing me off. I would like to see a longer acting ester of this though. The acetate may not be very soluble, and this compound is weak enough that large amounts of oil would need to be injected daily if that's the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Klaus is correct. A ketal can be hydrolyzed in human metabolism. He was using the term acetal which was throwing me off. I would like to see a longer acting ester of this though. The acetate may not be very soluble, and this compound is weak enough that large amounts of oil would need to be injected daily if that's the case.
    Honestly though Dr. D & Klaus, do you think the possible increased potency merits the amount of effort involved?
    I guess I am too simple minded but I would figure just sucking down some grapefruit juice an hour before and taking the prostanazol orally with some oil would give similar results.
    Grapefruit juice usually helps with drugs that have low oral bioavailability.
    Now if you are talking attaching long esters to make it possible to inject EOD or so, that's a different story
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    I'm with jonny21. I just think prostanozol is underdosed and that paying through the nose for 60 caps when 10 caps a day is a doable dosage is absolutely insane. For those of us who like to stay legal, that is. I'm just trying to figure out what to order when I get my half-pound of prostanozol powder. Which I guess I have even though this discussion is very interesting from a theoretical point of view. For me, that is. JMO.
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    Short. I think I'mma try pinning this stuff as is. You're kinda saying a bottle of 60 x 25mg = 1500mg would last ~4 weeks. That's GREAT 'cause 50mg ED orally don't do squat.

    EDIT: 12 chinese chemists will shortly receive a request for quote on this. If this gives no results, well, then, I'll just have to scrounge every supplement store for the stuff in bottles and convert it myself.
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    "... Some time ago, they abandoned ketal and assumed acetal to include any diether of geminal diols. Later though, they reinstated ketal, but made it a subclass of acetal ..."

    Klaus,
    Your making me feel old! I think I remember that now, but I'm not sure!! (lol) If I have time next month, I may prep a hex or prop ester of this, just for kicks. It's like everyone has said though, the stuff is weak. I like the hardness it gives, but it may be too weak to be worth pursuing. However, if the oral BA is only 15% as you have guessed, it may be more potent that I has originally assumed by IM route. The lymphatic absorbtion with oral delivery of the ether makes me wonder if that number is higher though.
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    Hm... One chem house is asking wether or not I will need more than 10kg a month.

    I dunno, that's 300,000 mg ED. Pretty high. I'll reply "no" I guess.
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    why can't I see the third page.

    An inj prost with ester (like cyp) would be awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scipio
    why can't I see the third page.

    An inj prost with ester (like cyp) would be awesome.
    This is the third page
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    Can you do the same to the hormone in finigenx? That would be cool legal alternative to injectable tren. Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione I'm assuming the dione part would have to go and be replaced by an acetate or a cypionate?
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    LMFAO!! I can't believe you ****in noobs are in here talking about SNORTING PROSTANOZOL!!!!!! Get out of the gym and into the ****ing chair bro's! You've got some psychological **** goin on if you're serious thinking about snorting prostanozol... hahhahaaha
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    Aren't you the guy who has to exercise restraint to not go out and throw people's cars around?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Aren't you the guy who has to exercise restraint to not go out and throw people's cars around?
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    WOW GUYS!!! Check this out!!! I just got back from the gym and look at these results!!!!

    Pre-Gym
    Waist.....34"
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    Chest.....47"
    Quads....21"
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    Bench....275x4
    Squat....405x4
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    Waist.....32"
    Arms......18"
    Chest.....51.5"
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    Squat....495x4
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    Before


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    Last edited by Magickk; 12-03-2005 at 09:56 PM.
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    You should SNORT it, it's even better, I SWEAR.
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    While being on the topic of "alternative administration routes"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus
    If I remember correctly, intranasal absorption will not be high unless a carrier is used (such as a cyclodextrin). Even with a carrier, the nasal cavity can only absorb so much at a time. When foreign particles enter the cavity, mucous is secreted to remove the particles. Sneezing, red eyes, and a runny nose typically follow. This will further lower absportion. Blood levels of steroids administered in this manner will rise and drop sharpy over a short period of time (~1.5 hours). The whole idea of injection is to cause constant blood levels of the hormone. Therefore, snorting is not very effective.
    How would you guesstimate its bioavailability when administrated nasally VS orally? Is there a way to guesstimate this, Klaus? The pinning idea seems just great although much more suited to an ester.

    A fina kit is required any which way, so that's obviously step 1.
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    FOUND A SUPPLIER!!!


    Prostanozol = 3500 $ per kg
    Prostanozol 17b-ester = 4000 $ per kg

    Let's gang up and order a kg for the bunch of us, then have them split it in a bunch of 50g, 100g separate shipments.

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    What exactly is 17b ester? At any rate, why don't someone with time and cash buy it and resell it at a reasonable price. I don't know if I trust myself to convert powder to injectibles.
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    It's soooo easy man. It goes something like:

    1. Put the powder and oil inside a vial
    2. Filter this mixture with a whatman filter and syringe
    3. Inject the newly-filtered mixture into an empty, sealed vial
    4. Bake at... 225°F? For 45 minutes or so. Bake twice if you prefer.
    5. Cool down
    6. Pin it dude

    A 6-year-old can do this.
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    If someone will buy me the powder I will convert it, inject it, and keep a log of my progress if I can get some educated guidance / opinions
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    That's mighty big of you. lol
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    you can count me in for 50g or $175 bro
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    17b ester? Sounds like it's methylated, which would make it Winstrol..
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    Well it's Prostanozol acetate, or propionate, etc. The 17b is only for the chemist to know exactly where to put the ester. It has no methyl.

    I might be wrong, but looking at this image kindly provided by Klaus, there is only an attachment at the 17b position. How the heck do they count the carbons anyways? Well they must know what they are doing, right?

    Wisntrol has a 17a (Methyl, even though those lines don't say methyl to me) and a 17b (OH). Prostanozol has something at the 17b position and nothing where Winstrol has a methyl.

    How the heck they can put 1 or 2 links at the 17th carbon without upsetting the whole structure is beyond me, so my understanding of this drawing is obviously very limited.

    Klaus, can you give me an introductory course in reading this diagram? I know the basics = C = 4 valence or whatever they are called, O=2, etc...

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attac...8&d=1133121185
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    Ah, that diagram makes more sense now that I see it..
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    Well good for you man, 'cause I'm quite baffled by it. How can the 17th carbon have either a methyl and something else, or just the something else? Carbons have 4 ... (links?) I forget what they are called... So what happens when there is just the whatever at 17a and nothing at 17b? I see no double bond...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Well good for you man, 'cause I'm quite baffled by it. How can the 17th carbon have either a methyl and something else, or just the something else? Carbons have 4 ... (links?) I forget what they are called... So what happens when there is just the whatever at 17a and nothing at 17b? I see no double bond...
    Someone else who knows chemistry alittle more than I (hobby chemist) could explain what the actual bonds are (acetyl groups?).. It is possible for there to be "something" there, yet it has no chemical action.. The 17th position is alpha and beta, I'm not sure if during synthesis the methylation goes from one to the other, but it does seem interesting as to how some are 17b and others are 17a alkylated..
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    Nice rant, Pete. They should make a Half-Life movie. Or not.
  

  
 

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