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    Legal SARM by AMS








    SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) are the next generation of muscle building. Advanced Muscle Science (AMS) is constantly in search of natural ergogenic aids to make your bodybuilding life a bit easier.


    There are currently very few, if any, natural SARMs available. In addition the quality of many underground or research chem shops is questionable (1). Still it’s important we stay current on natural SARMs and understanding their use. Testosterone is an all powerful hormone as we all know. Unfortunately testosterone impacts not only muscle growth, but several other tissues in the body. It’s great for bones and building muscle, but it has negative impacts on the prostate, and side effects such as increased blood pressure (2) (3). This is where SARMs come in. SARMs are selectively activating anabolic activity in muscle and bone only, thus eliminating the negative side effects associated with testosterone (4). The referenced research review states the following:

    “Therefore, therapeutic agents such as SARMs that can achieve anabolic effects on the skeletal muscle and bone without the dose-limiting adverse effects associated with testosterone would be attractive as function promoting anabolic therapies (1,2,6).”

    Now that you have a basic understanding of the importance of SARMs we will tell you how to achieve a similar effect by utilizing our prohormone Decavol. Normally our goal with Decavol is to get it to convert (once inside the body) to nandrolone a powerful steroid. However a recent study suggests we can achieve SARM like effects with the prohormone 19-norandrostenedione (5). Decavol is 19-norDHEA, which is a one step prohormone to both 19-norandrosteneDIONE, and 19-norandrosteneDIOL. It is a two step prohormone to nandrolone (otherwise known as nortestosterone). A depiction of these conversions is show here:


    Back to the SARM study using 19-norandrosteneDIONE. The study performed both in vitro and in vivo research to determine the biological activity of 19-norandrosteneDIONE. They researched everything from the standard Hershberger assay, to mRNA myostatin and androgen receptor expression. What they found was selective tissue activity of 19-norandrosteneDIONE. In other words it acted as a SARM. Below are the results of the Hershberger assay:


    The authors also found that it did not increase the weight of the liver, and they also found no adverse effects on the heart. These are obviously both great findings of two things commonly associated with steroids. The authors go on to conclude the following (note, in the study 19-norandrostenedione is referred to as NOR):

    “Summarizing these data it is obvious, that NOR has powerful SARM like properties if administrated s.c. and is a potent anabolic steroid.”

    The first thing you might note from this statement is “s.c.” or subcutaneous. That means they in injected the rats with 19-norandrostenedione. Obviously we cannot do this with Decavol. But the key here is that both subcutaneous administration and Decavol’s orally disintegrating tablet bypass first pass hepatic metabolism. This is again important because the author’s of the study believe the administration of 19-norandrostenedione is critical to obtaining the SARM like effects.


    “A possible mechanistically explanation for the different androgenic/anabolic profile of NOR after oral and s.c. administration could be the first pass effect. The route of administration is known to have a huge impact on the activity and side effects of androgens (Marbury et al., 2003). After oral administration, androgens are absorbed from the gut into the portal system. This allows the liver to metabolize the drug, in the case of NOR mainly to nandrolone (De **** et al., 2001; Schrader et al., 2006; Uralets and Gillette, 1999). For testosterone it has been demonstrated that after s.c. administration, metabolisation in the
    liver is different compared to oral administration (Jockenh¨ovelet al., 1996). This could also be the case for NOR.”


    Now that we know Decavol bypasses first pass metabolism, and converts to 19-norAndrosteneDIONE, we still need to prevent it from converting to the androgenic hormones 19-norandrosteneDIOL, and nandrolone. Otherwise it will still remain a prohormone that exerts androgenic effects and negatively impacts the prostate, liver, etc. We can accomplish this by inhibiting the following enzymes to the greatest degree possible (again please refer to the conversion image above):

    • 17b-HSD Type 1
    • 17b-HSD Type 3
    • 17b-HSD Type 5

    17b-HSD Type 3 is only expressed in the testicles, therefore we do not need to worry about inhibiting this enzyme as prohormones will only come into contact with peripheral tissues (6).

    17b-HSD Type 1 is only expressed in human placenta and ovaries (7). As males we do not have to worry about inhibiting this enzyme.

    This leaves us with 17b-HSD Type 5, a multifunction enzyme that catalyzes the transformation of androstenedione to testosterone, and DHEA to androstenediol (8) (7). In our depiction of Decavol this enzyme also converts 19-norandrosteneDIONE to nandrolone, and Decavol (19-norDHEA) to 19-norandrosteneDIOL. Thankfully there are many natural inhibitors, and even many in development. But we need the most potent natural inhibitor to avoid any of the androgenic effects of nandrolone and 19-norandrosteneDIOL.


    The two most relevant pieces of research on 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibition (naturally) first appeared in 2001 out of the Czech Republic, and more recently (2009) out of Germany . Both were testing multiple dietary phytoestrogens to determine the level of 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibition. The best inhibitor for our purposes will possess the following qualities:

    • A low IC50 value
    • Research showing that IC50 value can be reached in vivo (specifically humans)
    • Naturally found

    A simple explanation of IC50 is that it is the concentration of the inhibitor that reaches 50% inhibition of that particular enzyme. Meaning a lower IC50 value is better as you can typically achieve plasma levels in vivo more easily, and thus significantly inhibit the target enzyme. The Czech study showed that Zearalenone, Coumestrol, and Quercetin had the lowest IC50 values (see table below for all IC50 values).


    Of these three, quercetin is easily the most readily available over the counter dietary supplement. Unfortunately due to its poor bioavailability even 500mg’s three times per day would likely only result in approximately minimal inhibition based on quercetin pharmacokinetic plasma research (9). In fact it would result in mean plasma concentrations of only 1.53µM, which is well below the plasma levels needed for even 50% inhibition. And zearalenone is a toxin found in moldy food. So that’s out as our best inhibitor. And finally there is coumestrol, which also unfortunately has evidence suggesting it negatively impacts the male hormonal system. So where does this leave us?
    The German Study

    The Czech study did a great job initially identifying some potential natural 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibitors. The German study expanded on this by further identifying potential powerful inhibitors. They tested several potential inhibitors and narrowed them down to the seven most potent seen in the table below.


    You will notice once again quercetin appears, however as we previously discussed its poor oral bioavailability eliminates it from our search. 2’-Hydroxyflavanone, and 7-Hydroxyflavone are both very effective inhibitors. Unfortunately they are not something commonly found for purchase over the counter, and are not readily available to the consumer. That leaves us with 2 promising alternatives:
    1. Naringenin
    2. Silibinin

    Naringenin

    With the lowest IC50 value of the two this holds the most potential for our purposes. The good news is this is naturally found. And we can reach plasma concentrations necessary to create significant 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibition. If fact the authors of this German study stated the following:

    “After single ingestion of grapefruit juice (8 ml/kg) the mean plasma concentration of naringenin even rose to 6µM. However, big inter-individual differences in terms of bioavailability were observed in this study, e.g. the highest concentration of naringenin observed after grapefruit juice drinking was 14µM [27]. According to the present investigation, the IC50 value of naringenin for AKR1C3 was 2.4µM in vitro, hence, we would expect that concentrations of naringenin, and probably those of other flavonoids as well, may reach sufficient levels to affect AKR1C3 and hormone metabolism in vivo.”

    It’s important to note the above stated “single ingestion of grapefruit juice”, indicating chronic ingestion of grapefruit juice would significantly raise naringenin plasma levels over time. The mean plasma concentration was 6µM after approximately 3 cups or 24oz’s of grapefruit juice (based on a 200lb male). In order to inhibit approximately 72% of the enzyme we would need to reach plasma levels of 20µM.

    Clearly this is attainable with daily use of grapefruit juice. It is important to note that they did see some variance, with one subject showing plasma levels of 14µM after the same amount of grapefruit juice. Below you can see the various inhibition levels for each compound tested. The red bar is naringenin.


    I don’t like the taste of Grapefruite Juice AMS!

    We know that everyone does not like grapefruit juice and may not want to be drinking as much as 24 oz per day for an extended period of time. Thankfully just supplementing with naringenin may be as good as or better than consuming grapefruit juice. In an acute study (one dosing), researchers gave five healthy males, and one healthy female 135mg’s of naringenin on an empty stomach (10). Based on their plasma naringenin AUC (area under the curve) findings, it suggests that we can reach plasma levels of approximately 34.61µM. This is substantially above 20µM plasma levels we are seeking with only 1 dose of supplemental naringenin. They even prohibited the subjects from consuming a diet that might contain additional naringenin. As bodybuilders we consume diets with a lot of fruits and vegetables, both of which contain additional naringenin. Together this research suggests that naringenin is our most powerful tool for inhibiting 17b-HSD Type 5.

    Silibinin

    The second powerful inhibitor noted in the German study was silibinin, which is a well known part of silymarin. It’s used by guys to “protect” their liver on and off cycle. More importantly for us it was found to inhibit 17b-HSD Type 5 50% at the 20µM plasma levels. Silibinin like other flavonoids does have poor bioavailability. This is why you see guys dosing upwards of several grams per day of standard milk thistle extracts. Unfortunately even using an advanced delivery system milk thistle such as Siliphos® still would not reach the appropriate plasma levels for a great degree of 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibition (11).

    Other Inhibitors

    As you can see in the diagram above there are several other potential inhibitors (although not as potent). We will not go into those here, but feel free to check into them further if you are interested. Its possible adding them to the below suggested cycle could result in a greater level of 17b-HSD Type 5 inhibition.

    The AMS SARM Cycle

    Okay so we may have bored you to death with details above, so the following easily summarized the AMS SARM Cycle. Remember to eat a lot of fruit and vegetables to further increase your naringenin plasma levels, and thus inhibit a greater degree of our target enzyme.

    Keep in mind you will need to find your own naringenin supplement as we do not currently offer this supplement for sale, but many stores do carry such a supplement.


    Also remember that this has not been studied in humans, we may find out that we are unable to inhibit the appropriate enzymes to a degree necessary to get the same reaction they found in the in 19-norandrostenedione study. However, we may find it creates a very successful cycle with minimal side effects and massive gains! If you try this please keep us informed. We plan to look into this further and possibly sponsor some cycles including bloodwork. We will update our findings at that time.

    For more information on Decavol, please visit the Advanced Muscle Science website.




    References

    1. Trafficking of drug candidates relevant for sports drug testing: Detection of non-approved therapeutics categorized as anabolic and gene doping agents in products distributed via the Internet. Thevis M, Geyer H, Thomas A, Schänzer W. Cologne, Germany : Drug Test Anal., 2011, Vol. May 3. doi: 10.1002/dta.283.
    2. Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle. Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Mac RP, Lee M, Yarasheski KE, Sinha-Hikim I, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Magliano L, Storer TW. University of California, Los Angeles, CA : J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2005, Vols. Feb;90(2):678-88.
    3. Adverse events associated with testosterone administration. Basaria S, Coviello AD, Travison TG, Storer TW, Farwell WR, Jette AM, Eder R, Tennstedt S, Ulloor J, Zhang A, Choong K, Lakshman KM, Mazer NA, Miciek R, Krasnoff J, Elmi A, Knapp PE, Brooks B, Appleman E, Aggarwal S, Bhasin G, Hede-Brierley L, Bhatia A, C. Boston, Massachusetts : N Engl J Med, 2010, Vols. Jul 8;363(2):109-22.
    4. Selective androgen receptor modulators as function promoting therapies. Bhasin S, Jasuja R. Boston, Massachusetts : Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care, 2009, Vols. May;12(3):232-40.
    5. The prohormone 19-norandrostenedione displays selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) like properties after subcutaneous administration. Diel P, Friedel A, Geyer H, Kamber M, Laudenbach-Leschowsky U, Schänzer W, Schleipen B, Thevis M, Vollmer G, Zierau O. Cologne, Germany : Toxicol Lett, 2008, Vols. Apr 1;177(3):198-204.
    6. Male pseudohermaphroditism caused by mutations of testicular 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 3. Geissler WM, Davis DL, Wu L, Bradshaw KD, Patel S, Mendonca BB, Elliston KO, Wilson JD, Russell DW, Andersson S. Rahway, New Jersey : Nat Genet, 1994, Vols. May;7(1):34-9.
    7. The intracrine sex steroid biosynthesis pathways. Luu-The V, Labrie F. Quebec, Canada. : Prog Brain Res., 2010, Vols. 181:177-92.
    8. The human kidney is a progesterone-metabolizing and androgen-producing organ. Quinkler M, Bumke-Vogt C, Meyer B, Bähr V, Oelkers W, Diederich S. Berlin, Germany : J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2003, Vols. Jun;88(6):2803-9.
    9. Quercetin pharmacokinetics in humans. Moon YJ, Wang L, DiCenzo R, Morris ME. University at Buffalo, State University of New York, Amherst, NY : Biopharm Drug Dispos., 2008, Vols. May;29(4):205-17.
    10. Pharmacokinetics of the citrus flavanone aglycones hesperetin and naringenin after single oral administration in human subjects. Kanaze FI, Bounartzi MI, Georgarakis M, Niopas I. Thessaloniki, Greece : Eur J Clin Nutr., 2007, Vols. Apr;61(4):472-7.
    11. A review of the bioavailability and clinical efficacy of milk thistle phytosome: a silybin-phosphatidylcholine complex (Siliphos). Kidd P, Head K. University of California, Berkeley, USA : Altern Med Rev., 2005, Vols. Sep;10(3):193-203.
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    Interesting article. The Sub-Q versus oral sub-lingual is an interesting case, not sure if it completely translates. I'm just thinking stuff like GHRP's and GH that are administered sub-Q would be provided in sub-lingual form if that worked. Adding Naringenin though was a good add, good for 17b-HSD inhibition. What about the 7 or 2-hydroxyflavone?

    It's an interesting concept though, I haven't seen many logs/reviews on Decavol let alone a 12 week cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Interesting article. The Sub-Q versus oral sub-lingual is an interesting case, not sure if it completely translates. I'm just thinking stuff like GHRP's and GH that are administered sub-Q would be provided in sub-lingual form if that worked. Adding Naringenin though was a good add, good for 17b-HSD inhibition. What about the 7 or 2-hydroxyflavone?

    It's an interesting concept though, I haven't seen many logs/reviews on Decavol let alone a 12 week cycle.
    You can actually take some peptides sublingually and intra nasally.

    The 2-hydroxyflavone is interesting. The only reason we didn't discuss it more is because it's not a readily available otc option. And the pharmacokinetic research is limited so dosing and plasma concentrations would just be a guess.

    I'm fairly confident naringenin is sufficient though. Maybe not perfectly but to a high degree ( 80%+).
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    Thanks, any other things that the Naringenin would enhance if stacked with Decavol? Any suggestions, like say 11-oxo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Thanks, any other things that the Naringenin would enhance if stacked with Decavol? Any suggestions, like say 11-oxo?
    Depends what you mean by enhance. Naringenin is probably not good with any prohormone that is reduced by 17b-hsd. It reduces that enzyme thus stopping the conversion to more powerful hormones.

    It's good in the case of decavol because there is research showing 19-nordione is good for its selective anabolic action. If we let it convert to the more powerful nandrolone then it wouldn't.

    I'm not sure on 11-oxo but I would probably avoid Naringenin with it. I'll try and look at the structure later today.
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    I checkout out 11-oxo and you would want to avoid naringenin while using it as it would inhibit the conversion to it's more powerful hormone 11-ketotestosterone.
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    Thanks, appreciate you looking into it. Amazon has naringin pretty cheap but they come in 500mg pills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Thanks, appreciate you looking into it. Amazon has naringin pretty cheap but they come in 500mg pills.
    Sheesh. That's a huge dose. Something like that would probably only need to be taken every other day. What brand is it?
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    Interesting stuff. I wish I was smart enough to comprehend all of the chemistry lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Interesting stuff. I wish I was smart enough to comprehend all of the chemistry lol
    x2
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    Looks interesting. What I find cool about sarms is the anabolic properties they are able to provide without inducing hpta shutdown. I don't see anywhere in the article that it has been mentioned, I suppose Deca Vol would shut you down?
    Check my AnaBeta, Erase and DAA log at:

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Interesting stuff. I wish I was smart enough to comprehend all of the chemistry lol
    Quote Originally Posted by wsaucer View Post
    x2
    It is basically saying if you can keep conversion of Decavol to 19-NorDIONE, then it has anabolic properties with little androgenic properties.





    Upper Left (A) shows that prostate weight was lower than control or test prop, indicating it's less/not androgenic, same with chart (B) which is seminal vessicle. Chart (C) shows the anabolic effect on the levator ani muscle, meaning NOR-DIONE is anabolic.

    However, the "Intact" group that's higher in the anabolic and androgenic ranges is not mentioned. I didn't take the time to read the full article yet, but I'm assuming it has something to do with castration to test effects of test prop and 19-nor Dione without natural testosterone. It indicates that 19-NOR is anabolic and not very androgenic, but may not be as strong as your natural test system assuming you are not castrated (i.e., "intact"). I don't know about the additive effects though, if you have your testicles intact and add in the 19-Nor Dione.

    It does seem to indicate that 19-Nor Dione would be SARM like eliciting anabolic effects without androgenic sides, but you'd also miss out on strength gains related to 19-nor Diol. Good and bad with it.

    The reason you take the Naringenin is to inhibit the enzymes that convert 19-Nor Dione into other, more androgenic forms. Decavol is 19-NorDHEA, so it still needs to convert to 19-Nor Dione first, not sure what enzymes are required for that either, and what that conversion rate is. I'm guessing it's not inhibited by the Naringenin, or you'd just have DHEA floating around not doing much.

    As for suppression, I'm not entirely sure about that one, maybe y'all at AMS could lay that one out a bit better for us. I'm assuming since it doesn't display much in the way of androgenic sides, that suppression should be minimized. However, there are multiple pathways that can suppress HPTA and I'm not sure what the research/experience shows on 19-Nor Dione. Best would be to get someone to use this protocol and get pre/post bloodwork.
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    Well put
    Check my AnaBeta, Erase and DAA log at:

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/178490-anabeta-erase-daa.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Interesting stuff. I wish I was smart enough to comprehend all of the chemistry lol
    Google henryv organic chemistry 101. This will give most guys a good enough understanding to follow this kind of stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicFox View Post
    Looks interesting. What I find cool about sarms is the anabolic properties they are able to provide without inducing hpta shutdown. I don't see anywhere in the article that it has been mentioned, I suppose Deca Vol would shut you down?
    It suggests that suppression should be minimal. However in an actual biological human environment we don't know for sure.

    Even a small amount of conversion to nandrolone could be detrimental. One single 50mg shot of deca has been shown to be highly suppressive.

    We are lining up one guy now who we will get pre, during, and immediately post bloodwork on to either prove or debunk this theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    It is basically saying if you can keep conversion of Decavol to 19-NorDIONE, then it has anabolic properties with little androgenic properties.





    Upper Left (A) shows that prostate weight was lower than control or test prop, indicating it's less/not androgenic, same with chart (B) which is seminal vessicle. Chart (C) shows the anabolic effect on the levator ani muscle, meaning NOR-DIONE is anabolic.

    However, the "Intact" group that's higher in the anabolic and androgenic ranges is not mentioned. I didn't take the time to read the full article yet, but I'm assuming it has something to do with castration to test effects of test prop and 19-nor Dione without natural testosterone. It indicates that 19-NOR is anabolic and not very androgenic, but may not be as strong as your natural test system assuming you are not castrated (i.e., "intact"). I don't know about the additive effects though, if you have your testicles intact and add in the 19-Nor Dione.

    It does seem to indicate that 19-Nor Dione would be SARM like eliciting anabolic effects without androgenic sides, but you'd also miss out on strength gains related to 19-nor Diol. Good and bad with it.

    The reason you take the Naringenin is to inhibit the enzymes that convert 19-Nor Dione into other, more androgenic forms. Decavol is 19-NorDHEA, so it still needs to convert to 19-Nor Dione first, not sure what enzymes are required for that either, and what that conversion rate is. I'm guessing it's not inhibited by the Naringenin, or you'd just have DHEA floating around not doing much.

    As for suppression, I'm not entirely sure about that one, maybe y'all at AMS could lay that one out a bit better for us. I'm assuming since it doesn't display much in the way of androgenic sides, that suppression should be minimized. However, there are multiple pathways that can suppress HPTA and I'm not sure what the research/experience shows on 19-Nor Dione. Best would be to get someone to use this protocol and get pre/post bloodwork.
    Good post. 19-nordiol actually has research showing sarm properties as well, but it's harder to control that conversion.

    The conversion from 19-nordhea to the dione requires 3b-hsd. Which is readily available and quite efficient.

    That's actually why the diols worked so well pre-ban. Because they also used 3b-hsd.
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    Thanks for clarifying. Looking forward to the bloodz!
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    If you guys see any good Naringenin supplements out there let me know. I emailed NOW about their bioflavanoid caps and unfortunately they do not obtain enough Naringenin to do much.
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    Is deca-vol still available in the RD tabs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5sky View Post
    Is deca-vol still available in the RD tabs?
    They were on back order for awhile so the UTT are the only ones we have available at the moment. I don't have an ETA at the moment, but it shouldn't be too much longer I believe. I'll keep you posted as soon as I learn more. The UTT are still just as good if you were curious. The biggest difference I find is that the RD's are just a little less of a hassle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Google henryv organic chemistry 101. This will give most guys a good enough understanding to follow this kind of stuff.
    Ohai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    This is where SARMs come in. SARMs are selectively activating anabolic activity in muscle and bone only, thus eliminating the negative side effects associated with testosterone (4). The referenced research review states the following:

    “Therefore, therapeutic agents such as SARMs that can achieve anabolic effects on the skeletal muscle and bone without the dose-limiting adverse effects associated with testosterone would be attractive as function promoting anabolic therapies (1,2,6).”
    Most 19-nors can be described as SARMs since they're tissue selective due to the way they're metabolised.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266670
    ^ Here's a study calling trenbolone a SARM (because it isn't capable of being 5a-reduced, with 5a-reductase expression in androgen-sensitive tissues being responsible for most of the androgenic effects of testosterone).
    In the case of nandrolone (and most 19-nors), it's metabolised by 5AR to a less potent androgen, thus reducing even further the androgenic effects in androgen sensitive tissues like the prostate and seminal vesicles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Ohai.


    Most 19-nors can be described as SARMs since they're tissue selective due to the way they're metabolised.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266670
    ^ Here's a study calling trenbolone a SARM (because it isn't capable of being 5a-reduced, with 5a-reductase expression in androgen-sensitive tissues being responsible for most of the androgenic effects of testosterone).
    In the case of nandrolone (and most 19-nors), it's metabolised by 5AR to a less potent androgen, thus reducing even further the androgenic effects in androgen sensitive tissues like the prostate and seminal vesicles.
    Yes, the problem is (or at least in the case of nandrolone) it can cause cardiac hypertrophy as well. Making it not tissue selective. This particular study found that there was no impact on the heart or liver.

    Did you post your organic chem 101 here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Yes, the problem is (or at least in the case of nandrolone) it can cause cardiac hypertrophy as well. Making it not tissue selective. This particular study found that there was no impact on the heart or liver.

    Did you post your organic chem 101 here?
    No sir, just PHF and MFF.
    Fwiw, I think decavol is probably a very under appreciated prohormone.
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    Naringenin has turned out to be particularly hard to find...
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    Yeah that first one is about the best one. NOW has a bioflavonoid product but it has next to nothing in nargingenin content (even though it advertises it).

    I think what we will do is make our own.
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    So sexy


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    LOL, is that for real or photoshopped?
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    That would be sweet
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    That's real baby.

    We just inquired about raw Naringenin, then made sure it worked in a cyclo complex (found out it works extremely well).

    It's in production as we speak. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    That's real baby.

    We just inquired about raw Naringenin, then made sure it worked in a cyclo complex (found out it works extremely well).

    It's in production as we speak. :-)
    That's awesomesauce right there
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    It's going to be a small limited run product. Mostly sold online. Because frankly GNC bro has no idea what a sarm is...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    It's going to be a small limited run product. Mostly sold online. Because frankly GNC bro has no idea what a sarm is...
    Will there be an announcement when it goes on sale? And will it be at NP or just AMS site?

    What is the best use of this product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5sky View Post
    Will there be an announcement when it goes on sale? And will it be at NP or just AMS site?

    What is the best use of this product?
    Yeah we will announce when it becomes available.

    It's going to be the safest anabolic on the market. I don't think the gains will be crazy explosive or anything. But you should be able to run this substantially longer with minimal side effects.
    I'm wondering about suppression myself but we aren't for sure on that until we get some bloodwork in.

    I wouldn't use it in pct, but i would certainly use it after right up until your next cycle.
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    Did you say you had someone running it and getting bloodwork?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Did you say you had someone running it and getting bloodwork?
    Yes we do (or starting soon). We will be getting them before, 6-8 weeks in, and immediately at the end of 12 weeks.

    We may do a couple of guys like this actually.
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    Awesome, hope it works out well for y'all! I'm sure I'll be interested in this!
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    This is Bad A$$!! AMS is doing some really bib things right now.
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    Really looking forward to the alpha series also. With this kinda stuff available I don't think I will every run a methyl again.
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