- 05-28-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm planning my second PH cycle. My first was dermacrine but I wasn't that impressed. I'm 35, 75kg.
I'd like to know what you guys would recommend as a good PCT for a 400mg ed 4 week cycle of 1-Androsterone? I don't really want to go down the research chem route. Is it true you can just use Arom-X as your sole supp in PCT? What about during the cycle, is an AI a good thing to have also?
Many thanks guys...
- 05-29-2010, 05:02 AM
Well, I decided to stack 1-Androsterone and 4-AD. I ordered 2 bottle of each last night along with Arom-X for PCT. I'll probably run some herbs like Muira Puama/Catuaba alongside the Arom-X to complete the PCT. I'm not bothering with any extra liver support aside from the milk thistle I do anyway.
I was hoping to run a 6 week cycle but it would only leave me with 3 caps per day of 4-AD and 1-Androsterone. Do you think that will be sufficient for some good gains in mass/strength? Am I complicating things by offsetting each of the PH's by a week, like someone else suggested? Say for example - starting a week early with the 1-Andro and finishing a week late with the 4-AD.
Thanks for any advice on this stack, looking forward to posting the results...
- 05-29-2010, 10:10 PM
05-31-2010, 02:56 PM
I'm just wrapping up a few things and then I'm ready to rock out this stack.
I'll definitely be posting up before and after pics along with details of diet and training.
I'm gonna run a 5 week cycle which will look like this:
Week 1 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed
Week 2 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
Week 3 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
Week 4 - 1-Androsterone x3 ed + 4-ADx3
Week 5 - 1-Androsterone x2 ed + 4-ADx2
Week 6 - 4-AD x 2 ed
PCT consists of Arom-X, Testopro, Tongkat Ali
Was wondering whether you can stack 2 AI's together? I've been reading great things about Inhibit-E, does anyone know if it's safe to stack with Arom-X or is it not worth it?
05-31-2010, 03:09 PM
06-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Advanced Muscle Science
06-05-2010, 09:12 AM
So alas, I'm running solo 1-Androsterone and this is my second day of 4 a day.
Worth noting so far:
Day 1 weight - 76.6
Day 2 - 77.2
Day 3 - 78
Bear in mind I started a cycle of creatine on day one also but I'll know for sure if the 1-Androsterone is working if I can top 80kg's which will be a first for me. I've been cycling creatine for years like this and never topped 80.
My diet is very clean, 6 meals a day roughly 3000+ calories.
Day 4 - feeling the lethargy I'd read about but it's not that bad (yet!). Not feeling any increase in appetite, hopefully that will come.
I haven't noticed any strength improvements on my lifts yet but hitting the deads today which should be a good indicator. Still early days I guess...
Thanks for the advice quigs, seeing as I won't be having the 4-AD now, do you think I should increase to 5+ capsules a day? I was thinking of doing a week @ 4ed and see how it went... I've changed my dosing strategy because of the lack of 4-AD. Unless I'm too laid out, I'll probably dose the 1-Andro higher and cut the cycle to 2-3 weeks.
06-05-2010, 09:28 AM
06-05-2010, 09:30 AM
Thant sucks about the 4 ad. I just had to get a new Debit card because a supplement website was making fraud charges on it.
I will work for supplements!
06-05-2010, 09:44 AM
06-05-2010, 09:46 AM
The only problem with mine is I never even been to there web site. I have no clue how they got my card number.
I will work for supplements!
06-05-2010, 09:36 PM
06-05-2010, 09:37 PM
06-05-2010, 09:49 PM
I will work for supplements!
06-06-2010, 09:53 AM
If any UK rep wants to send me a discount code for the capsules to help out with being conned by cheapdiscountsupplements.com, I'd be well grateful!!
Day 5 - The lethargy has really knocked me out from time to time now. Appetite is also very suppressed. No noteworthy increase in performance in the gym yet. Weight is now sitting at +1.4kgs.
06-06-2010, 07:52 PM
Often times companies put several compounds in there with no real thought besides "well more must be better". This is not always the case, but seems to be the bro-mentality. Most supplement formulators have little/no education in biochem/physiology/pharmacology....and honestly, their product formulations show this.
Advanced Muscle Science
06-06-2010, 07:55 PM
06-07-2010, 08:55 AM
06-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Weight up again to 78.8kg, 2.2 more than a week ago. Pleased about this. I've taken the dosage down to 3 per day because the lethargy is just too much otherwise. It really impacts on my endurance too, I'd say I'm down 25-30%. Hard to say if strength is improved yet, nothing dramatic that's for sure. I'm gonna start using stims I think to get over the lethargy...
06-07-2010, 03:31 PM
06-07-2010, 03:53 PM
06-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Not saying you are wrong though, its your choice what you put in your body.
As for taste, while you may not mind a product with a foul taste, the average consumer would rather have something that is tolerable at least. That combined with the safety profile of aspartame are why it was used. I don't forsee any artificial sweetener free UTT products in the future.
Advanced Muscle Science
06-07-2010, 07:55 PM
06-08-2010, 01:48 AM
06-08-2010, 06:37 AM
Sadly, without the presence of ethanol (such as in fruits), methanol is unstable and breaks down into formladehyde, a poison and carcinogen. The ethanol in fruits acts like an antidote to the poison. I can understand why companies include artificial sweetners, it's just that for such a 'manly' pursuit, (predominantly male) consumers really can be like big girls blouses.
Thanks johnjessica for that advice, I've definitely taken one before bed and slept soundly and will take your advice and incorporate one before the gym in an attempt to over-ride the lethargy.
Day 7 - steady growth. +2.8kg from a week ago. Very happy about this and very much on target for my elusive 80kg threshold. Gonna take some guarana today for the lethargy (which I'm getting used to now). PS. This is definitely strong stuff - I can literally feel it 'working' within 20 minutes of taking it and feel it coursing through my system. 3 per day seems to be sweet spot for me, 4 was just too much.
06-12-2010, 07:54 AM
Just to update my experience of 1-Androsterone...
I'm now on day 11 and since yesterday upped my dosage to 4 caps a day. I definitely felt the need to to this as I couldn't 'feel' the substance working in my body as much as previously when 3 caps produced a strong effect.
It's really been incredible, I have to say. Yesterday, I weighed in at 79.9kg, which is 0.1 away from my target weight. To see the weight go up daily is so rewarding... It's like - finally, I can put on that extra muscular weight I've been chasing for years. Friends have commented on how much bigger I'm looking, my strength is appreciably better and my physique just feels solid, it's a great feeling. I'm glad in a way I've stuck to the 1-Androsterone as stacking it would have muddied my appreciation of what was doing what. This way I can definitely say that the 1-Androsterone is working a charm, anything stronger would be too much for a 1st real cycle I feel so I'm glad with my first choice of PH.
The only sides I've noticed is some lethargy upon taking it to about 2.5 hours later but this is easily alleviated with some guarana. It's definitely less noticable now, but along with that I'm assuming that my body is reaching a tolerance level and hence I've upped the dose. Libido hasn't changed a great deal I have to say, no problems there No hair loss, as expected with no conversion to DHT and only a little bacne, but even then it's nothing more than usual I'd say.
It's been a real journey I have to say and at times during the lethargy I felt like 'what am I doing to my body', but then the gains came very fast and the great feeling you get when you're pumped more than you've ever felt.
Greatest things so far:
Lifting 5x5 145kg Deads (+10kg)
Weighing 79.9kg (+3.3kg)
Looking and feeling solid
Will give another update at end cycle/during PCT.
06-13-2010, 11:04 AM
I'm also running 1-andro right now stacked with 4-AD, but have yet to see anything from it yet. I seem maybe a little harder and may have dropped a little BF, but who knows. I'm liking the results you've gotten so far, and I'm subbin' in on this one! Can't wait to see how the rest goes!
06-13-2010, 12:01 PM
Glad to have ya!
Man, that sucks about the lackluster results from the stack. Can I ask - do you actually 'feel' different after dosing up? I get a feeling of lethargy from the 1-Andro and also the feeling I've taken an anti-histamine or maybe an antibiotic. Just from my experience, I'd say if you're not getting some kind of 'feeling', prolly just up the dose cos your body is tolerating it too easy. I'm thinking of upping my doses to 5 per day now (just 3 before) cos I just don't feel it working as much as before and also the scales have leveled out.
Best of luck, man.
06-14-2010, 08:29 PM
06-14-2010, 08:33 PM
i'm about to get my second cycle of 1-andro. my first experience was amazing. you can up the calories too. kept me real lean, hard and strong
06-15-2010, 01:20 PM
One day into PCT. Probably earlier than most at 13 days would but felt it was the right time. I was hardly feeling the 1-Androsterone even at 4 per day so will save my caps for next cycle when I hope my tolerance will be less.
Strength still going up first day of PCT. Endurance/Cardio still up there. Feel great and hoping to maintain my current weight (80.1 +3.5 from start). Thinking about a 1T-Tren cycle of about the same length in a couple of weeks.
06-15-2010, 10:52 PM
As a general rule of thumb, time on cycle plus time on PCT equals time off before next cycle to allow your body to return to normal hmeostasis and refresh your receptors.
BTW...what are you using for your current PCT?
06-16-2010, 08:01 AM
My PCT is the PP TRS along with Mucuna Pruriens and 2 adaptogens which I run anyway. (Suma and Ashwagandha in case you're interested).
06-16-2010, 08:38 PM
06-18-2010, 09:28 AM
...but specifically as quoted from it:
What this article should hopefully highlight is that there is no requirement to spend too long on a course of prohormones. Instead, a user can capture the benefits of prohormones while keeping side effects to a minimum by keeping cycle lengths short and also keeping appropriate liver support and estrogen blocking supplements to hand. Although the length of cycles may need to fluctuate slightly depending on individual tolerance to side effects one of the following two approaches is recommended:
1. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 4 weeks off
The 2 on-2 off approach was popularised by reknowned US writer Bill Roberts. By keeping cycle length to just two weeks, followed by two weeks of PCT, the chance of side effects is reduced significantly. Although gains will not be as high as the approach below, this approach has the advantage of allowing you to commence a cycle again after just two weeks off. At that that point you could go on for two further weeks followed by a full four weeks off (where you would use PCT products again). At that point many users will start over again.
The major advantage of this approach is it will produce steady gains over time, and because time off is reduced on this type of cycle, losses post cycle will be reduced or even eliminated making it very attractive psychologically, as nobody wants to run a cycle and get great gains, only to lose most of it during a long recovery period. By keeping time spent using prohormones to a minimum at any one time the chance of side effects is reduced massively."
Would you mind telling me why you'd think he (and Bill Roberts) might be wrong in recommending short cycles? Also, comparatively - what evidence is there that longer cycles would be safer/more effective than shorter ones (twice over 8 weeks inc PCT)? Also, and only from my (very) limited experience, I saw my tolerance to the 1-Andro go right up after about 10 days to the point where I'd needed to have taken nearly twice as many caps to achieve the same effect, so wouldn't it make sense that shorter cycles are better at keeping your body guessing and keeping tolerance to any given substance low? This (assuming that tolerance goes back down after 2 weeks off) would make it far more economical also.
06-22-2010, 12:31 AM
The way i see it is it really depends on the PH used and the Person. Not all that works for one will work for other and many will expeience tolerance & side effect problems at different times. I dont see great gains with 4 week cycles, well let me rephrase ... I dont keep my gains with short cycles and this product inpaticular is pretty mild and the sweet spot for me is right around 8weeks. If i run it for lets say 3-4 weeks ill put on 6-8lbs but prob loose 3-6 due to water and other reasons. So personally for me im a supporter of the longer cycles.
06-23-2010, 07:57 AM
06-24-2010, 03:27 PM
11-19-2011, 10:36 AM
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