AMS stack and what to expect - AnabolicMinds.com

AMS stack and what to expect

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    AMS stack and what to expect


    I am very interested in your Utt system. Have run my share of orals (SD, HDrol, Epi, "tren," 1AD/4AD) in the past and possibly looking at AMS for my next run. Have run the older 1-ad and 4-ad in the past.

    Can you run 1.5mL 3x/day?
    With the 1AD that would 90mg taken--> 90 in the blood stream and compares to the pill form about 600mg.
    Can you go up to 2mL 3x/day?

    For the best lean muscle building would i better off with Liquidrone or Decavol?

    What kinda gains can I expect from this?

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    Gains are all depending on your diet, but as far as dosing goes, I wouldnt go more than 1ml per dosing, if you want to go higher than the 2ml total per day, I'd do like 1ml morning, 1ml afternoon, 1ml evening or whatever combo you want to meet your dosing needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    Gains are all depending on your diet, but as far as dosing goes, I wouldnt go more than 1ml per dosing, if you want to go higher than the 2ml total per day, I'd do like 1ml morning, 1ml afternoon, 1ml evening or whatever combo you want to meet your dosing needs.
    Looking at the chart on the AMS website this equals a lower blood conc than the pill form... Yes it reaches the blood faster sublingually but you would be getting a lower blood conc than say 600mg/day of the pills. With the old 1ad I remem we common cycles of 400-600mg a day.
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    well, it also depends on conversion as well, whereas the pills converted at 15-20%, so 20% of 600mg= 120mg....
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    well, it also depends on conversion as well, whereas the pills converted at 15-20%, so 20% of 600mg= 120mg....
    That's what I was looking at on above post and came up with 1.5ml 3x/day of 1ad.

    Would deca or liquadrone better for lean mass? Leaning more toward the "tren"
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    I would dose the liquadrone 1ml 2x day.

    Or could I run all three? Deca, 1ad, liquadrone... Looking at like a 6 wk cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    That's what I was looking at on above post and came up with 1.5ml 3x/day of 1ad.

    Would deca or liquadrone better for lean mass? Leaning more toward the "tren"
    liquidrone would be best for lean mass, and is great by itself.. stack that with 1andro and 4ad and you have a fantastic stack
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    That's what I was thinking about. Wondered if deca vs the 4ad would be better for that dry hard look?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    That's what I was thinking about. Wondered if deca vs the 4ad would be better for that dry hard look?
    Well, just from another standpoint, since you are dosing 1andro which converts to 1-test, and liquidrone, I would throw in 4ad which will convert to test and possibly help with some lethargy you might experience.. thats just my 2 cents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    Well, just from another standpoint, since you are dosing 1andro which converts to 1-test, and liquidrone, I would throw in 4ad which will convert to test and possibly help with some lethargy you might experience.. thats just my 2 cents.
    yeah the lethargy was what i was worried about but doesnt deca have mild conversion to a less potent estrogen than test, if i remember right? but not sure my "get up" and go would be as good with out the 4AD. deca and 1-ad along with liquidrone might just kill that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    liquidrone would be best for lean mass, and is great by itself.. stack that with 1andro and 4ad and you have a fantastic stack
    Great option.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    yeah the lethargy was what i was worried about but doesnt deca have mild conversion to a less potent estrogen than test, if i remember right? but not sure my "get up" and go would be as good with out the 4AD. deca and 1-ad along with liquidrone might just kill that.
    I'd stick with the 4-AD UTT in this case if you're at all worried about "get up". I like the 1-Andro UTT, Liquidrone, 4-AD UTT stack. It's definitely my favorite when it comes to AMS products.

    I'm going to bug the execs and see if we can get a packaged deal on that stack at our store. We have all the other combos on the front page of the AMS Store.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I'd stick with the 4-AD UTT in this case if you're at all worried about "get up". I like the 1-Andro UTT, Liquidrone, 4-AD UTT stack. It's definitely my favorite when it comes to AMS products.

    I'm going to bug the execs and see if we can get a packaged deal on that stack at our store. We have all the other combos on the front page of the AMS Store.
    How u dosing them? Results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    How u dosing them? Results?
    I havent ran the full UTT stack yet, but with the capsules I was using 6 caps of 4-AD, 4 caps of 1-Andro, and 2 caps of Dienedrone. I was stronger then I've ever been in the BB Bench, and box squat. I actually had to stop early though as I started experiencing some bad bicep tendonitus. I'd have to say just plain size and strength were the most notable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I havent ran the full UTT stack yet, but with the capsules I was using 6 caps of 4-AD, 4 caps of 1-Andro, and 2 caps of Dienedrone. I was stronger then I've ever been in the BB Bench, and box squat. I actually had to stop early though as I started experiencing some bad bicep tendonitus. I'd have to say just plain size and strength were the most notable.
    Comparable to??? Just seems kinda pricy when I could get a bottle of phera and blow up but then again no methyls is a great great plus!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Comparable to??? Just seems kinda pricy when I could get a bottle of phera and blow up but then again no methyls is a great great plus!
    Cant say that I've had similar results with an OTC cycle. But most of my cycles have been cutters (I like to cut on cycle). I remember one high dosed havoc cycle that was similar in strength results but I couldnt run it as long. And I'd agree the methyls are cheaper but most guys dont run just 1 cycle. So overtime cycles like this are just an overall safer option. Also since you can run them longer it's much easier to maintain the gains. I'm a big fan of longer cycles for this reason alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    And I'd agree the methyls are cheaper but most guys dont run just 1 cycle. So overtime cycles like this are just an overall safer option. Also since you can run them longer it's much easier to maintain the gains. I'm a big fan of longer cycles for this reason alone.
    Very very true... not too sold on these new methyls, yeah they work but at what cost...

    I too am a fan of longer cycle. How long could 1ad, 4ad and liquidrone be run... 8 weeks? I feel this would be a solid run (not sure how sold i am on DHEA complient PH) maybe only running the liquidrone for 6 though.

    How is shut down with the combo esp at the longer length? Feel an AI would be enough during PCT esp with the 19-nor and 1ad?

    Should there be any worry with the test --> estro coversion with the 19-nor? As far as i understand you get progestin effects while aromatizing aas?

    I get puffy nips (nothing major) on but never get a mass and they back to normal during PCT. Should I look at using a topical AI while on? (have started to consider this due to this fact) I always have nolva onhand just in case... but rather not deal with it. But i know there is always a chance.

    I have had an interest in your products for a while, due to my ??? of the methyls. Also considering just getting some test c. If I did could I kick off my cycle with the liquidrone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Very very true... not too sold on these new methyls, yeah they work but at what cost...

    I too am a fan of longer cycle. How long could 1ad, 4ad and liquidrone be run... 8 weeks? I feel this would be a solid run (not sure how sold i am on DHEA complient PH) maybe only running the liquidrone for 6 though.

    How is shut down with the combo esp at the longer length? Feel an AI would be enough during PCT esp with the 19-nor and 1ad?

    Should there be any worry with the test --> estro coversion with the 19-nor? As far as i understand you get progestin effects while aromatizing aas?

    I get puffy nips (nothing major) on but never get a mass and they back to normal during PCT. Should I look at using a topical AI while on? (have started to consider this due to this fact) I always have nolva onhand just in case... but rather not deal with it. But i know there is always a chance.

    I have had an interest in your products for a while, due to my ??? of the methyls. Also considering just getting some test c. If I did could I kick off my cycle with the liquidrone?
    I've ran these 8 weeks a few times. It's about the perfect length. Have you ever run a "tren" product before? Some guys feel it shuts them down hard others do not. Personally I feel more shutdown from 1-Andro (converts to suppressive 1-test). I like to run 4-AD a few days longer then anything else just to get my libido and mood up right before PCT. It makes PCT a bit easier imo.

    Personally I think if you're low enough in bodyfat you should not have any great degree of estrogen problems on cycle. I have never used an AI with any of them and like you just keep nolva on hand in case of emergency. If you're carrying around more BF I'd first urge most people to try and reduce that before cycling but if not then a low dose AI might not be a bad idea. I think CEL makes a new topical formestane that likely works well on cycle.

    In terms of PCT I'm a fan of tapering off a serm, then pyramiding an AI. I actually have a graph of an upcoming PCT plan I can post up later today (need to clean it up and load to photobucket). Maybe that will give you a better idea of something I might do. Obvioiusly PCT is very individual so do what you know works for you.

    I think Liquidrone would be a very good kick start for test c. Depending on your goals I'd go with the following:

    1-Andro: for pure strength
    Liquidrone: for lean mass
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I've ran these 8 weeks a few times. It's about the perfect length. Have you ever run a "tren" product before? Some guys feel it shuts them down hard others do not. Personally I feel more shutdown from 1-Andro (converts to suppressive 1-test). I like to run 4-AD a few days longer then anything else just to get my libido and mood up right before PCT. It makes PCT a bit easier imo.

    Personally I think if you're low enough in bodyfat you should not have any great degree of estrogen problems on cycle. I have never used an AI with any of them and like you just keep nolva on hand in case of emergency. If you're carrying around more BF I'd first urge most people to try and reduce that before cycling but if not then a low dose AI might not be a bad idea. I think CEL makes a new topical formestane that likely works well on cycle.

    In terms of PCT I'm a fan of tapering off a serm, then pyramiding an AI. I actually have a graph of an upcoming PCT plan I can post up later today (need to clean it up and load to photobucket). Maybe that will give you a better idea of something I might do. Obvioiusly PCT is very individual so do what you know works for you.

    I think Liquidrone would be a very good kick start for test c. Depending on your goals I'd go with the following:

    1-Andro: for pure strength
    Liquidrone: for lean mass
    thanks man...

    yeah the 1test and "tren" for 8 weeks worried me with shutdown because both are notorious for it...

    I have run a 19-nor with epi for 4 weeks and loved it, but wanna get away from the methyls and run longer cycles for more solid consistant gains.

    The CEL form was def what i had in mind for on cycle... i usually keep a lean bodyfat i am 190ish with about 7-8%bf.

    I do something similar prob for PCT.
    week 1-4 serm
    week 3-6 AI but tapered, no ramp up though
    week 3-6 cort control
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    That looks fine to me. At that bodyfat I probably wouldn't even bother with the form. But that's of course up to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    That looks fine to me. At that bodyfat I probably wouldn't even bother with the form. But that's of course up to you.
    Yeah might get it just in case... Can never be too safe. So if I wanted to do a 8 wk how should I set it up... Going all UTT. Any chance get sponsored log or part sponsored?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Yeah might get it just in case... Can never be too safe. So if I wanted to do a 8 wk how should I set it up... Going all UTT. Any chance get sponsored log or part sponsored?
    I would just run the 1-Andro, Liquidrone, and 4-AD at 2ml's/day spread out as evenly as possible. The only adjustment I'd make is starting the 4-AD a few days later and ending it a few days later then the 1-Andro and Liquidrone.

    I really wish we could help out but right now we are not supporting any sponsored logs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I would just run the 1-Andro, Liquidrone, and 4-AD at 2ml's/day spread out as evenly as possible. The only adjustment I'd make is starting the 4-AD a few days later and ending it a few days later then the 1-Andro and Liquidrone.

    I really wish we could help out but right now we are not supporting any sponsored logs.
    2mL/day of each really? Is it that much more potent than the old pill 1AD and 4AD? According to your chart that compares to the 1AD pill form at about 250mg/day. That definately on the low side for the pills. I know it has higher bioavability and reaches the bloodstream faster so you dont have to take as much but the final blood concentraion seems on the low side. I mean I found with the old 1AD i started at 300 and would work to 500 or 600mg/day. Plus you would spread the pills over 3 doses usuaully. How stable are the blood concentrations over the day at a 2x dosing? I guess it depends on the clearance rate/half life of each.

    I just question if I will see the kind of results I am expecting with such a small amount compared back to the older stuff. I guess you are also adding in the 19-nor but still. Just looking at the 1AD i would think 0.5mL 3x/day would be the minimal starting point... which would roughly workout to 300mg of the oral 1AD. Compared to the older 1AD how is the conversion to 1test with this newer version? I guess that is a very important question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    2mL/day of each really? Is it that much more potent than the old pill 1AD and 4AD? According to your chart that compares to the 1AD pill form at about 250mg/day. That definately on the low side for the pills. I know it has higher bioavability and reaches the bloodstream faster so you dont have to take as much but the final blood concentraion seems on the low side. I mean I found with the old 1AD i started at 300 and would work to 500 or 600mg/day. Plus you would spread the pills over 3 doses usuaully. How stable are the blood concentrations over the day at a 2x dosing? I guess it depends on the clearance rate/half life of each.

    I just question if I will see the kind of results I am expecting with such a small amount compared back to the older stuff. I guess you are also adding in the 19-nor but still. Just looking at the 1AD i would think 0.5mL 3x/day would be the minimal starting point... which would roughly workout to 300mg of the oral 1AD. Compared to the older 1AD how is the conversion to 1test with this newer version? I guess that is a very important question.
    Yes we break down the dosing a little more in the write ups. For example here is the part on 4-AD:

    Just like similar molecules, 4-AD has a half life. When taken in pill form, you rely on the body to break the pill down then the molecule, resulting in wasted time and causing excess stress on the liver and other organs (4-AD UTT™ avoids the first pass through the liver entirely). This often results in only 15% of the molecule being delivered in the first hour. So for you to achieve sufficient blood levels of the molecule in pill form you must take 200 mg (30 mg the first hour) 2 times a day. However, 4-AD UTT™ is fully dissolved in the Liposomal liquid solution, the full dose of 40 mg can be delivered in 1 hour (as compared to 30 mg with pills), reaching blood plasma levels sooner.
    The actual half life of each compound doesnt change even with the faster delivery of the UTT method. This is why the UTT method is so effective. You reach levels quicker and maintain the serum concentrations over the course of the day. Most all of the compounds range in half lifes from 6-10 hours so we usually recommend dosing 8 hours apart or more often if you can.

    I'll link to another thread I made regarding UTT delivery in a bit (off to search for it...).
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    Here we go. Read this thread, and important add on in this read is that more of the compound does not necessarily mean increased results when were dealing with UTT delivery. Overall it's just a more efficient process:

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    "For the best way to achieve desired gains, sublingual products should be administered in three doses per day for the length of a cycle"

    hmmm... makes me want to go 3x/day not 2... they used 4AD


    "A 25 mg sublingual dose outperformed a 100 mg oral dose by a 261% greater testosterone increase! Again that is at 25 mgs, one quarter the dosage! It should be noted however, that sublingual absorption does have its limits. This same study was also done with a 50 mg sublingual dose and was shown to me no more effective than a 25 mg dose. This may be due to a somewhat limited capacity for absorption through the sublingual tissues. There is a limited surface area under the tongue, which probably means there is a finite amount of material that can be absorbed sublingually."

    Interesting... but what if the dosage was increased by spread out the increase in amount not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    "For the best way to achieve desired gains, sublingual products should be administered in three doses per day for the length of a cycle"

    hmmm... makes me want to go 3x/day not 2... they used 4AD


    "A 25 mg sublingual dose outperformed a 100 mg oral dose by a 261% greater testosterone increase! Again that is at 25 mgs, one quarter the dosage! It should be noted however, that sublingual absorption does have its limits. This same study was also done with a 50 mg sublingual dose and was shown to me no more effective than a 25 mg dose. This may be due to a somewhat limited capacity for absorption through the sublingual tissues. There is a limited surface area under the tongue, which probably means there is a finite amount of material that can be absorbed sublingually."

    Interesting... but what if the dosage was increased by spread out the increase in amount not?
    I would assume you would achiever greater results. For most it's just easier to spread out the doses 2x/day because mose of us have day jobs that interfere with our training and supplementation. But if you can I'd say 3x/day is even better.

    4-AD can cause some CNS stimulation so we do like to tell people to not dose it too closely to bed time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I would assume you would achiever greater results. For most it's just easier to spread out the doses 2x/day because mose of us have day jobs that interfere with our training and supplementation. But if you can I'd say 3x/day is even better.

    4-AD can cause some CNS stimulation so we do like to tell people to not dose it too closely to bed time.
    Just thinking about that study... so you would want to dose the products independent of the other to maximize oral mucosal absorption. Correct? Possibly doing 2 or 3 at the same time would hinder results based on that study because they felt only a certain amount can cross the oral mucosa at a given time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Just thinking about that study... so you would want to dose the products independent of the other to maximize oral mucosal absorption. Correct? Possibly doing 2 or 3 at the same time would hinder results based on that study because they felt only a certain amount can cross the oral mucosa at a given time.
    Yes that's absolutely correct. It's hard to say what the exact time frame you need to wait but I really wouldnt think it's too long. I certainly would not put all 3 products UTT at the same time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Yes that's absolutely correct. It's hard to say what the exact time frame you need to wait but I really wouldnt think it's too long. I certainly would not put all 3 products UTT at the same time.
    Cool deal... Thanks for all the info. I would like to try your products but just the cost effectiveness is what I am wondering about. If I don't go test I propbably will give it a run... Heck even if I do go test might run liquidrol at the beginning til it kicks in.
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    maybe its just me but I had to double the dose and spread it out during the coarse of the day to feel the results. i am tweeking it on the 3rd week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbitt7 View Post
    maybe its just me but I had to double the dose and spread it out during the coarse of the day to feel the results. i am tweeking it on the 3rd week.
    your bigger too, you have to keep that in mind.. i'm 250lbs and have to set it at 3ml per day to feel the effects...just a part of being bigger my friend
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    wonder how a 185-190 pounder would respond
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    Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    wonder how a 185-190 pounder would respond
    Well as you know everyone is different so results will vary from person to person. But this dosage was meant for the "average" person 160-200lb range. The 2ml should work well sence your in that range. But you can always start at 2ml and if your not seeing the gains/strength by week 2 you can always up it to the 3ml. Hope this helps.
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