Nasty Dienedrone sides

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    Unhappy Nasty Dienedrone sides


    I did a lot of reading up before I decided to try Dienedrone and it sounded fairly low risk. I have used other products in the past with no trouble (Pheraplex, original 1-AD, 1-Test, etc.). I am not a "noobie" and am very aware of how my body reacts to diet supps and training.

    I have been taking Dienedrone for 1 week now, 100mg/day split am/pm.

    By the middle of the first day I noticed a strange side effect that I have felt everyday since - burning in my ears (like a sunburn) and face. The third day on Dienedrone I also had swollen hands - so much so that I had bruises the next day after lifting. The swelling has subsided but the burning ears/face persist. I also feel pressure in my head - especially when bending over to tie shoes, etc.

    These symptoms seem to indicate my BP has skyrocketed yet I have not seen posts from anyone else stating similar significant problems with Dienedrone.

    So, what could be the problem here? Is it likely a BP issue or something else? I intend to get the BP checked ASAP - don't want to let this go if it is a BP issue. Hawthorn berry (recently added) hasn't helped.

    Maybe I'm done?

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    Hawthorne needs to be pre-loaded.

    If you're worried that your sides are being caused by the Dienedrone, then I would suggest that it should no longer be taken until the issue is resolved.

    I'm sure a rep will chime in as soon as one of them reads your thread.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    I did a lot of reading up before I decided to try Dienedrone and it sounded fairly low risk. I have used other products in the past with no trouble (Pheraplex, original 1-AD, 1-Test, etc.). I am not a "noobie" and am very aware of how my body reacts to diet supps and training.

    I have been taking Dienedrone for 1 week now, 100mg/day split am/pm.

    By the middle of the first day I noticed a strange side effect that I have felt everyday since - burning in my ears (like a sunburn) and face. The third day on Dienedrone I also had swollen hands - so much so that I had bruises the next day after lifting. The swelling has subsided but the burning ears/face persist. I also feel pressure in my head - especially when bending over to tie shoes, etc.

    These symptoms seem to indicate my BP has skyrocketed yet I have not seen posts from anyone else stating similar significant problems with Dienedrone.

    So, what could be the problem here? Is it likely a BP issue or something else? I intend to get the BP checked ASAP - don't want to let this go if it is a BP issue. Hawthorn berry (recently added) hasn't helped.

    Maybe I'm done?
    brotha, if you got sides of anything in one day, you should quit. even M1T won't hit you that quick, and that was by far the worst on blood pressure. my guess is you had a very high blood pressure before you started this cycle.

    with anything that can raise blood pressure, you should:
    dose hawthorn berries or celery seed extract
    do more cardio to offset the blood pressure
    cut down on sodium and stims like caffeine

    if you haven't done any of those things, that's where i would start - or just quit the cycle, get your ducks in a row and restart the cycle in a month.
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    with anything that can raise blood pressure, you should:
    dose hawthorn berries or celery seed extract
    do more cardio to offset the blood pressure
    cut down on sodium and stims like caffeine
    Hawthorne needs to be pre-loaded.
    That's solid advice right there!! Best to start your support stuff at least a few weeks before going into it,and continue like-wise for a few weeks after. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but you could add some doses of arginine and/or other vasodilators to reduce blood pressure some, just an idea. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
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    This guys have hit the nail on the head basicallly. How much do you weight and at what BF%?

    Did anything else recently change in your diet, supplementation, or training? It all sounds BP related and if so, it is likely best to discontinue this cycle immediately.
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    very strange indeed.. have you recently had a complete physical to check to see how healthy you were to begin with? If not, I'd schedule something with a doc ASAP to at least get your baselines before you run another PH.
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    Thanks, guys, for all the good info and advice. The Hawthorn berry does seem to be kicking in as I feel much better today BUT I will still get the BP checked and stop the cycle if bad.

    I am 5'11", 210 pounds at around 14%BF (per calipers). I've been lifting for about 30 years. I was hoping D would help me hold muscle mass while I lean out a bit (re-comp).

    I am 46 years old, work at a desk job for 10 hours a day and drive in LA traffic. Yeah, could be some BP issues. Need more cardio I'm sure.
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    Definatly get that blood pressure checked and maybe even a physical. Id personally would stop taking it and see if the side decrease/disappear if not then there may be another problem. Ive not heard of these side with anyone taking product ,but every body is different.
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    OK guys - just had my BP checked - 130/75. That's really surprising and good IMHO considering I'm "on a cycle".

    So then, what's causing my ears to burn? The Milk thistle? Increased metabolism? "Hormone flush"?
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    Could be just an increase in your body's temperature.
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    am 46 years old, work at a desk job for 10 hours a day and drive in LA traffic. Yeah, could be some BP issues.
    HAHA, well put!! just thinkin' about traffic gets my bp up!! Glad to see you got checked, nice to have something to work with there. What other supps, if any, are you on bud?
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    Quote Originally Posted by subweevil View Post
    HAHA, well put!! just thinkin' about traffic gets my bp up!! Glad to see you got checked, nice to have something to work with there. What other supps, if any, are you on bud?
    No other supps right now - wanted to know exactly what the Dienedrone was doing.

    I take CoQ10, multi-vitamins, protein shake etc. every morning; BCAAs pre-workout and protein powder blend post workout. Routine stuff.

    One question - I have seen several other posts saying that it would be crazy to take more than 100mg a day. Why? Apparently there ARE side effects. What are they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    No other supps right now - wanted to know exactly what the Dienedrone was doing.

    I take CoQ10, multi-vitamins, protein shake etc. every morning; BCAAs pre-workout and protein powder blend post workout. Routine stuff.

    One question - I have seen several other posts saying that it would be crazy to take more than 100mg a day. Why? Apparently there ARE side effects. What are they?
    100mg is the breaking point for when you start seeing more noticable sides compared to gains. I respond better to higher runs of things, however with Dienedrone I packed on 10lbs easy off of 100mg. Honestly people should probably run it at 50mg to start and assess their tolerance. This stuff is powerful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    100mg is the breaking point for when you start seeing more noticable sides compared to gains.
    Like what, for example? Sides like I am experiencing or something else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    Like what, for example? Sides like I am experiencing or something else?
    no. above 120mg the aggression becomes hard to control, male pattern balding can present itself. back/calf pumps will show up as well. 100mg is a perfect dose IMO considering risk/reward.

    not saying it happens to everyone, but around 120-150mg is when it happens to most. kinda like cars - your results may vary
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    increased blood pressure, night sweats, MPB, acne, basically tren sides.
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    but around 120-150mg is when it happens to most. kinda like cars - your results may vary
    Haha, funny stuff, but true!! Gratz on just taking 'Drone by itself, that's always helpful to pinpoint gains, among other things. Everything I have read and heard backs up what the other guys said. I'm all for the least amount of something to get the desired result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subweevil View Post
    I'm all for the least amount of something to get the desired result.
    So if I back off to 1 cap a day (50mg) would I still get noticeable results or is it not enough for my size (210 pounds)?

    This ear burning thing is not good. Still suspect it's BP related. Either that or I am allergic to something in the mix.
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    If you back down and it solves the issue, that works. You could always assess it and then go from there. However, if your allergic to something in it, I'm thinking the problem your having will only moderately be reduced. I'm sure you'd still get results, not just as fast as you would at the full dosing. I'm sure the others can chime in with some good input. If your super worried, most Wal-Marts have a testing station where you can test your blood pressure, it should give you a ballpark if your still worried. Good luck man!!
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    I'd agree with you Jeff it still sounds BP related. There could be BP spikes and you just happened to test at a different time.

    Also you can definitely still gain off of 50mg/day. You might be one of the lucky hyper responders. Some guys are just more sensitive to certain compounds and vice versa.

    Its best to be safe though so keep that BP monitored, hawthorne going, water intake high, and lower sodium.
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    An excess amount of fluids in your system can also contribute to high blood pressure, but I doubt your taking in that much water/fluids and/or retaining that much, but it's just another idea. I would test bp at several intervals before and after dosing if it's feasible for you, as that might give you a more accurate reading perhaps. A a general rule, most people's readings are a tad elevated when they have someone else take it, chalk it up to nerves.
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    Im starting to think these [estra 4,9"s] are all the same--Im running trenadrol 120mg pd and I get the same burning ear problem almost every nite [mosty left ear but also face] very red and kind of itchy-- I can tell you its not BP because I check it all the time [I have a meter] I think it could be estro related--dienolone estrofies very easy with no AI---another thing that helps is benadryl
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    Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    Im running trenadrol 120mg pd and I get the same burning ear problem almost every nite -- I can tell you its not BP because I check it all the time
    Hey, thanks for posting - glad to know it's not just me. Are there any health consequences of this side effect or is it just uncomfortable?

    I checked my BP twice after work today - 120/73 and 120/69 - so I agree it does not appear to be a BP issue even though it feels like one. But I have no idea about kidneys, liver, etc. Everything "seems" OK.

    If this is due to estro as you suggest, that might explain the swollen hands I had the first few days.

    It also means I will probably need a REALLY good PCT.
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    Trenadrol is actually a different compound altogether then Dienedrone. So perhaps you both are experiencing elevated BP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Trenadrol is actually a different compound altogether then Dienedrone. So perhaps you both are experiencing elevated BP.
    Nope--not BP been checking it regularly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    Hey, thanks for posting - glad to know it's not just me. Are there any health consequences of this side effect or is it just uncomfortable?

    I checked my BP twice after work today - 120/73 and 120/69 - so I agree it does not appear to be a BP issue even though it feels like one. But I have no idea about kidneys, liver, etc. Everything "seems" OK.

    If this is due to estro as you suggest, that might explain the swollen hands I had the first few days.

    It also means I will probably need a REALLY good PCT.
    Its a good idea to run some estro control while on cycle--even though they say no estrogen conversion--check study-----------------------------------------------The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats. The most striking outcome of that study: dienolone is strange stuff.

    The research workers, Alvin Matsumoto and Brett Marck, administered rat implants which delivered steady levels of the steroid hormones, and also gave rats in a control group implants without active substances (placebo). Eight weeks after the operation, the researchers looked at the effects on the animals. Boldione raised the concentration of testosterone in the rats. Could the antibodies that the research workers used for the boldione analogue have been confused with testosterone? (See Diagram below) Dienolone raised the levels of estradiol in the animals. That is logical. Dienolone seems to convert fairly easily to estrogen.



    The concentrations of LH and FSH, the two driving hormones which induce the testes to produce testosterone, were diminished by the administration of both hormones. Remarkably, after the administration of dienolone the weight of the testes increased. This is seen in the figure below.




    Then the researchers tested the anabolic / androgenic properties of the two steroids shown via the sizing of the prostate and the levator ani muscle of the rats, as shown in the diagram below.




    From the results you would think that dienolone was a more powerful anabolic / androgen than boldione. However this was not the case. The above figures are in relation to the relative weights: the weight of the levator ani muscle and the total body weight of the rats. The rats that received dienolone had gained less weight than the other animals, but mainly because they were less willing to eat. Below you see the weight increases of the test animals. The rats who received dienolone had a larger increase in the weight of the prostate and levator ani muscle, which was not surprising. The fact that the rats who were administered dienolone had an enlargement of the testes, could not be explained. The research workers think that dienolone decreased the appetite because it converted into estradiol. In 1978, researchers discovered that androgens which convert to estradiol especially decrease ones appetite. Weight changes are shown in the diagram below.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Secondary polycythemia ---------------------------------------------------Patients usually report fatigue, headache, drowsiness, forgetfulness, and vertigo. Itching after a bath is a common finding. Patients also may have nose bleeds or gastrointestinal bleeding. The eyes and face look red. There is an increased incidence of peptic ulcer disease among persons with polycythemia vera. An enlarged spleen is present in at least three fourths of patients with polycythemia vera. It gives a feeling of fullness in the abdomen. Enlargement of the liver is present among 40% of patients. Disturbances of vision, such as temporary blindness, double vision, specks, and bright points in front of the field of vision, are common.


    Secondary polycythemia is caused by either natural or artificial increases in the production of erythropoietinErythropoietinErythropoietin or EPO is a glycoprotein hormone that is a cytokine for erythrocyte precursors in the bone marrow....
    , hence an increased production of erythrocytes. In secondary polycythemia, there may be 6 to 8 million and occasionally 9 million erythrocytes per cubic millimeter (milliliter) of blood. Secondary polycythemia resolves when the underlying cause is treated.

    Secondary polycythemia in which the production of erythropoietin increases appropriately is called physiologic polycythemia. This physiologic (meaning normal) polycythemia is a normal adaptation to living at high altitudes (see altitude sicknessAltitude sickness
    Altitude sickness, also known as acute mountain sickness or altitude illness is a pathological condition that is caused by acute exposure to high altitudes....
    ). Many athletes train at high altitude to take advantage of this effect — a legal form of blood dopingBlood doping
    Blood doping is the practice of illicitly boosting the number of red blood cells in the circulation in order to enhance athletic performance....
    . Similarly, athletes with primary polycythemia may have a competitive advantage due to greater staminaStamina
    Stamina may refer to:* Stamina, the capability of sustaining prolonged stressful effort: see endurance....
    .

    Other causes of secondary polycythemia include smoking, renal or liver tumors, heart or lung diseases that result in hypoxiaHypoxia (medical)
    Hypoxia is a Pathology condition in which the body as a whole or region of the body is deprived of adequate oxygen supply....
    , and endocrine abnormalities including pheochromocytomaPheochromocyto ma
    A pheochromocytoma is a neuroendocrine tumor of the medulla of the adrenal glands originating in the chromaffin cells, which secretes excessive amounts of catecholamines, usually epinephrine and norepinephrine....
    and adrenal adenoma with Cushing's syndromeCushing's syndrome
    Cushing's syndrome or hypercortisolism or hyperadrenocorticism is an endocrinology caused by excessive levels of the endogenous corticosteroid hormone cortisol....
    . Athletes and bodybuilders who use anabolic steroidAnabolic steroid
    Anabolic androgenic steroids are a class of natural and synthetic steroid hormones that promote cell growth and division, resulting in growth of several types of tissues, especially muscle and bone....
    s or erythropoietin may develop secondary polycythemia.

    Secondary polycythemia can be induced directly by phlebotomyPhlebotomy
    Phlebotomy may refer to:* phlebotomy, the practice of collecting blood samples, usually by venipuncture...
    to withdraw some blood, concentrate the erythrocytes, and return them to the body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rippe View Post
    OK guys - just had my BP checked - 130/75. That's really surprising and good IMHO considering I'm "on a cycle".

    So then, what's causing my ears to burn? The Milk thistle? Increased metabolism? "Hormone flush"?
    Im not sayn this is the same , but i had burning ears and they were turning red alot with alot of pressure and i finally went to doc and it was something to do with my sinus. Ive not heard of milk thistle having that kinda side effects , but everyone is different . Heres some info on the sides ands milk thistle it-self:
    http://www.drugs.com/mtm/milk-thistle.html
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    baby aspirin should help also......just my 2 cents
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    i had the exact same sides. i started dienedrone 1 week ago. the first thing i noticed was the weird warmth and pain in ears. thought it was maybe the cold from outside but then weird pain in fingers and random parts of body. continued for 3 days and then stopped. pain all went away. my blood pressure has always been at optimal levels
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    just my take on this ---I take my last dose around 11am and if its true that it has a half life of 8-10 hrs then thats just around the time when this "EFFECT" starts [estro conversion ?] so after reading the above study I think its a good idea to run some estro control when using---also this kinda reminds my of what would happen when I used [300mg of TE WK] so in a way it lets me know the product "is for real "
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    Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    just my take on this ---I take my last dose around 11am and if its true that it has a half life of 8-10 hrs then thats just around the time when this "EFFECT" starts [estro conversion ?] so after reading the above study I think its a good idea to run some estro control when using---also this kinda reminds my of what would happen when I used [300mg of TE WK] so in a way it lets me know the product "is for real "
    OK, if that is what's happening why would estrogen make our ears burn?

    Something no one has mentioned is the Peperine in this formula. Is there enough quantity to perhaps cause this burning effect? I think not but???

    I have checked my BP and body temperature. Both are normal.
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    in post #27[Secondary polycythemia ] I think the burning ear thing has to do with increased red blood cells--I coldnt find the article but it describes red face ears eyes [itchy] the swoll feeling hands,ankles,bloate--increase in estrogen---the only way your gonna find out what it is --is by trying some of the suggestions here --plus everyones different--I know the benadryl worked for me --and I always run some estro control with every cycle
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    Maybe one of the AMS tech guys could answer this:

    Does diendrone convert to estrogen by the same aromatase pathway that converts test to estradiol? And if so, can't we just jump on an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle to stop the unwanted conversion?
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    The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats. The most striking outcome of that study: dienolone is strange stuff.

    The research workers, Alvin Matsumoto and Brett Marck, administered rat implants which delivered steady levels of the steroid hormones, and also gave rats in a control group implants without active substances (placebo). Eight weeks after the operation, the researchers looked at the effects on the animals. Boldione raised the concentration of testosterone in the rats. Could the antibodies that the research workers used for the boldione analogue have been confused with testosterone? (See Diagram below) Dienolone raised the levels of estradiol in the animals. That is logical. Dienolone seems to convert fairly easily to estrogen.



    The concentrations of LH and FSH, the two driving hormones which induce the testes to produce testosterone, were diminished by the administration of both hormones. Remarkably, after the administration of dienolone the weight of the testes increased. This is seen in the figure below.




    Then the researchers tested the anabolic / androgenic properties of the two steroids shown via the sizing of the prostate and the levator ani muscle of the rats, as shown in the diagram below.




    From the results you would think that dienolone was a more powerful anabolic / androgen than boldione. However this was not the case. The above figures are in relation to the relative weights: the weight of the levator ani muscle and the total body weight of the rats. The rats that received dienolone had gained less weight than the other animals, but mainly because they were less willing to eat. Below you see the weight increases of the test animals. The rats who received dienolone had a larger increase in the weight of the prostate and levator ani muscle, which was not surprising. The fact that the rats who were administered dienolone had an enlargement of the testes, could not be explained. The research workers think that dienolone decreased the appetite because it converted into estradiol. In 1978, researchers discovered that androgens which convert to estradiol especially decrease ones appetite. Weight changes are shown in the diagram below.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subweevil View Post
    That's solid advice right there!! Best to start your support stuff at least a few weeks before going into it,and continue like-wise for a few weeks after. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but you could add some doses of arginine and/or other vasodilators to reduce blood pressure some, just an idea. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
    Pretty sure arginine, and N.O will increase blood pressure
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    Im using extreme tren right now, just added it to my epi run, Ill be honest, ive never been really able ot finihs a tren cycle, the sides for me outweigh the gains, crusty bloody boogers, extreme anger! towards EVERYONE ( only ph or ds that does this to me! ) and total and i mean toaly loss of sex drive, I think one day people will wonder wtf were any of us doing using that stuff!, crushes your blood pressure. Oh it also cause s me to get huge puffy bags under my eyes, and Im positive its the tren , ive done experements. Its a shame too cause I have 2 unopened bottles of it and one that i just cant seem to use. ANyone wants to trade 1 for an epi clone or h drol clone pm me, but buyer beware, its some real weird harsh stuff ( for me at least ) dont think ill use again. But for positives HUGE strength gains, And the biggest pumps ive ever had in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    Im using extreme tren right now, just added it to my epi run, Ill be honest, ive never been really able ot finihs a tren cycle, the sides for me outweigh the gains, crusty bloody boogers, extreme anger! towards EVERYONE ( only ph or ds that does this to me! ) and total and i mean toaly loss of sex drive, I think one day people will wonder wtf were any of us doing using that stuff!, crushes your blood pressure. Oh it also cause s me to get huge puffy bags under my eyes, and Im positive its the tren , ive done experements. Its a shame too cause I have 2 unopened bottles of it and one that i just cant seem to use. ANyone wants to trade 1 for an epi clone or h drol clone pm me, but buyer beware, its some real weird harsh stuff ( for me at least ) dont think ill use again. But for positives HUGE strength gains, And the biggest pumps ive ever had in my life.
    I have bottle of havoc
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    mines unopened, 1 is now that I just checked , other is missing 20 of 90, and the other one is element nutrition, 2/3 empty
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    Pretty sure arginine, and N.O will increase blood pressure
    Actually, vasodialtors don't. Easiest way to compare it is a small pipe that is flowing soild, then, take and upgrade the size of the pipe while maintaining the same amount of liquid. Now, the pipe isn't solid with liquid anymore. With less constriction, there would be less pressure.
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