New craze test

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  1. have they changed the formula? what pre-workout would you guys recommend?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    You would have to chromatographically isolate out the compound from the product though. And that peak coming out right prior (which appears to be n-isopropylidene-phenethylamine) probably wouldnt separate easily

    i still have the jar
    Pshh, what kinda skillz you think I have? Or rather, what do you think I'm lacking? But ya, if I have to chrom the stuff then I'm not interested.
    E-Pharm Nutrition Representative
    WARNING: I tend to speak my mind and will verbally assault you if you are a tool. My words do not necessarily represent the official opinion of E-Pharm, but most likely, they do.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Beejis60 View Post
    Pshh, what kinda skillz you think I have? Or rather, what do you think I'm lacking? But ya, if I have to chrom the stuff then I'm not interested.
    multiple acid base extractions should isolate the alkaloid components but then yeah i guess column chromatography would be needed
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    BTW, tht peak at 148 is due to loss of an ethyl radical from alpha cleavage

    you would not see such a large peak if the compound were N,N-diethyl

    I dont know why i posted this, it seems to mean nothing to anybody
    I find it interesting, though I can only decipher about 25% (if that) of what it all means. I'd imagine that's the case with the majority. Guys like you and Beejis60 speak another language half the time, lol...

  5. Somebody pm'd me this supposedly secret censored analysis of Craze and asked me to post it here...don't even know if anyone cares or if its insightful or not or even if its old news:

    I managed to get the following from a cached page on Bodybuilding forum, the thread was originally deleted, not sure why. Can someone with adequate scientific knowledge comment on the veracity of these claims below:

    Craze is based solely on trimethylglycine's ability to

    1.) Donate methyl groups to neurotransmitter synthesis. (along with obvious other processes, coq10 synthesis for instance). This well known fact about trimethylglycine is what makes it so intriguing.

    2.) Lessen platelet aggression, which leads to the introductory point.

    Coincidentally enough, Dendrobium, one of the ingredients in craze, has immense APA potential. (also, dendrobium is a convulsant, analgesic, an antagonist of BA, taurine, and GABA and used for sexual enhancement (See the link below for apa and other effects)
    http://pubs.acs.org/...021/np50111a014

    PEA is also well known for this, and you can feel it and how much better it is at it than other stimulants. Guarana is another decent APA, as is aspirin obviously (thus its use in ECA, but ephedrine itself is good enough APA).

    So what's the problem? It seems like Craze is chalked full of every constituent, isomer, extract whatever of PEA they could find due to its natural ability to APA and how well it does it.

    (Take note that pea and betaine work incredibly synergisticly together, and the ability for TMG to donate a CH3 is due to SAM-E production and the donated methyl group goes to the synthesis of neurotransmitters. As for the pea, or beta-pea specifically, it simply releases norep and dopamine.)

    Now citramine in its studies was NOT known as simply an MAO-B inhibitor, but referred to a MAO-B BLOCKER… INHIBIT and BLOCK are NOT equal in scientific language and BLOCK is generally used as the more "effective" word.

    So lets sum up what we have

    1. Betaine: very good at enhancing neurotransmitter synthesis (donating methyl groups to the synthesis process to form neurotransmitters, homocysteine remethylation, etc). Also, adjuvant for DNA polymerase and DNA sequencing, (MOA unknown). but it performs fairly well in weakening GC nucleosides bonding so that they can splice in RNA sequences and then not affect the reaction negatively. So this leads to Amino sequences, obviously. Now this is a part people have left out about TMG and I think we need to look in to it and understand it.

    2. PEA constituents and homologs: release norep and dopamine (two of the most beneficially/easiest synthesized after homocystein remethylation). all the different PEA constituents in here work in similar pharmocokinetics but bioavailability, half lifes, efficacy, all differ. also it helps from a price point.

    3. Extracts of Dendrobium. This will be subject to debate but just recently (within months) they have AGAIN changed the standard of what is believed to make up dendrobium. I could (and did for awhile) spend a lot of time looking up every "supposed" chemical in what we will now call DR (dendrobium) but it's useless as nothing will be known on the chemicals that we would be interested in as they are unique to DR. What IS known is that the stem portion of DR (what craze uses), 60-80% of the chemical extracts available from the stem are incredibly good in vitro at APA, so good, they actually performed quite well and OUT PERFORMED some standard units of the top performing drugs available on the market for APA.

    4. NMT: RX821002 out performed it as an alpha-2 receptor antagonist but there is a reason RX isn't allowed on the market and interestingly enough NMT had a higher IC50 but somehow RX still had a better affinity. Keep that in mind as honestly that's a little off. NMT performed better than hordenine and caffeine; often used natural MAO-b inhibitors. SO we have a PRETTY GOOD natural MAO-B inhibitor that is holding its own against the big scripts. People are looking at this as solely the stim effect, but it's so much more than that.

    5. Caffeine: Most should know the MOA of this and assume/predispose it's synergy. However, it may be important to note its specific effects on fatty acids and those effects' similarity to TMG's effects on fatty acids

    Now lets connect the dots.

    TMG and PEA have yet to be combined in effective doses and isomers in any other product (that I could find). I've already explained the synergy there.
    NMT hasn't been heavily thought of as an MAO-b inhibitor , yet, mainly a stim. It'll INCREASE stim affects as an alpha-2 receptor antagonist (note MAO-B inhibitor is not the same as alpha-2 receptor antagonist but generally (if not always) if a compound is one, it is the other as well). But it also has its own stimulant activity, also again, a significant MAO-B inhibitor. So this is good for PEA as it's metabolized by MAO in a rather quick time frame.
    BUT if we inhibit MAO-B effectively enough (and we’re coming to the conclusion that NMT does) then MAO synthesis has to occur in order for the drug reactions to be metabolized, otherwise their effects will still be in process. This is why taking say deprenyl and PEA together will yield hours of fun rather than just 30 minutes or so of PEA alone. Also note a powerful MAO-B such as deprenyl doesn’t have to be taken daily as its effect on MAO lasts multiple days due to it being an irreversible inhibitor. IIRC, somewhere along the lines of 3-5 days depending on dose and environment. So even if NMT is not a full blown IR inhibitor, it seems strong enough to have multiple hours of inhibiting effects. Also, being an A2 antagonist, norep will be readily released, even MORE neuro action. Could this be too much of a good thing?


    Now as to why there should be some concern for this product…

    APA action of it seems greatly emphasized. Sure it may give great pumps and blood flow, but in result, we have our possible side effects. There is such a thing as having too much APA where our INR reaches the whole number 5 area. There are reports of just simple daily servings of garlic raising INR enough over time to indicate bleeding. The most common place for that bleeding to occur in general for reference is the brain, thus explaining the reports of dizziness, blackouts, headaches, etc. Obviously we can look at a drug like warfarin and we have to be very careful as that causes MAJOR bleeding, but there are different levels of bleeding that don't cause as much “damage”, but cause the side effects and possibly over consistent usage cause short term/long term issues. That being said, it is entirely possible that this product has the ability to raise INR to the point of worry. With NMT and b-pea (and all the other pea's) being lumped in with aspirin in writings of studies on their effect on APA, plus caffeine, not to mention the darkhorse dendrobium who's majority stem extracts showed very promising APA affinity in vitro. So who's to say it can't do what garlic can do with daily use in itself with all those different compounds? Some of which, we know very little about. We don’t know what else is even in dendrobium stems, it's extracts were patented so quickly that everything about it is vague.
    Dendrobium has been described as an analgesic multiple times. It's not directly stated anywhere, but the comparisons between the (still unknown) possible MOA's of say acetaminophen (remember, those effect the cannabinoid receptors.) Now we know the effect on the ECS of aspirin for instance is not drastic and we aren't even sure of the location of the analgesic effects specifically, but that's a possible MOA of that class of drug. is it possible in synergy or one of these compounds individually effects the ECS? We wouldn’t know as we cant even figure out if aspirin does or not and we have been studying it for how long? No one seems to have drawn this conclusion, but it's VERY possible considering the similarities between the compounds overall actions and the very little known about almost all the ingredients in this product. Maybe it's a derivative of the class of analine analgesics? Maybe it just has a similar MOA or overall effect? This is the most effective away to explain the pain killing effect and it ties together with all the other conclusions.

    Another conclusion to piggy back off that and maybe add some substance to it, THC increases the effect of PEA 4 fold. Keep that in mind and in connection.
    Now we look at the INCREDIBLE output of norep, dopamine, seratonin (to be specific and standard to what the studies point out). PEA specifically successfully releases norep and dopamine and will continue to do so until MOA is reestablished. PEA acts also very similar to amphetamines which also release NT's such as dopamine. Now too much of a good things is in fact, too much. Here comes the scary part.

    Schizophrenia has yet to be completely understood, but a common treatment is dopamine agonists. It’s thought that dopamine agonists misfire and causes PART of the schizo issues (PEA also can be a hallucinogen. So antipsychotics have been noted to agonize the receptors and block them. Now as said earlier, PEA and amphetamines act on NT"s very similarly and when used they cause a sensitivity to dopamine. It’s referred to as supersensitivity to dopamine and a marked rise in the number of dopamine D2 receptors in the high-affinity state for dopamine. High affinity receptors coupled with incredible output of NT"s by the synergy of craze, COULD lead to dopamine misfiring, even chronically or short term after use is extinguished. If you tie all this together, it's a possibility that it could do SOMETHING due to this products aimed nature. The fact that vaughn described it as cocaine which is obviously similar to lidocaine, and lidocaine was mentioned in studies of NMT and the connections coke has with NT's like amphetamines, makes the conclusion make sense. Now, this isn’t saying normal use of pea and APA's will make you go schizo, this also isn’t saying abusing Craze will, but looking at how this product is formulated, how well it works syngeristically, how studies compare the different compounds to script drugs that have been extensively studied, we must at least take caution
    Its alpha2 agonist abilities (a2 receptor binds to NT's and adrenaline, agonize the receptor and it can’t bind, therefore releasing adrenaline and its effects) obviously cause vasodilation, but if craze as a whole has any significant affect at all on b2 receptors (which was noted in some possible effects of the DR constituents if discerned correctly, and also possibly an effect of NMT) then that in turn would cause coronary vasoconstriction which would still increase the output of the heart and the energy it must expend to keep up with all the other effects of craze and pump enough blood. Not sure what effect this may have, but may raise heart rate to a significant degree, which also has been reported.


    As you know, NT misfirings will affect mental productivity at different levels. We’ve explained the issue of nausea and cramping by acute bleeding, stimulants in general will obviously have their individual normal expected side effects so those are accounted for.
    Some users have reported blurred vision or simply impaired vision. MAO Inhibitors may cause this effect (as we see above, lots of mao inhibition with Craze) and thus can lead to orthostatic hypotension.


    So in conclusion, we’ve accounted for the "pain killer" claim. We’ve accounted for the few hours of feeling amazing and then the crash (typical of the actions we’ve described), and we’ve covered the withdrawal possibilities and we’ve accounted for the vision problems. Now everything above isn’t being stated as fact, but none of this was in their write up or thus far explanations of why they chose these compounds. This product is extremely effective because it's extremely synergistic. The problem is it may be TOO effective, causing TOO many reactions in sync with TOO many risks.
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  6. Guy said thats deleted out of every thread its posted in..he might just be a kook I dunno

  7. this was posted on another board and the documentation supporting it should be released tomorrow. Things may move very fast now. A similar test result by same lab for gaspari detonate resulted in its prompt removal from the bb.com store. forgive the nasty language, thats kramer


    GAME OVER for FAT MATT CAHILL.

    CRAZE Berry Lemonade Lot # 1211372 bought from independent store and shipped directly to the lab found to contain ETHamphetamines ...

    Odd how this lot # is not among the “clean” samples allegedly sent to the lab by Matt Cahill...

    The lab indicated there are approximately 8mg per gram.... which means if one serving of Craze is 5.8 grams you would be ingesting about 46.5 grams of ETHamphetamines..

    In comparison I was told the Detonate that was tested contains approximately 24mg per capsule.

    Matt Cahill sending “clean versions” to the lab is fooling no one... except maybe Anthony Connors (aka Anthony Roberts) BUT since he's already a fool, I guess he doesn't count.

    I’m looking forward to see Matt Cahill back behind bars where he belongs ASAP.

    Other “HOT” lot #’s coming soon!!
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    this was posted on another board and the documentation supporting it should be released tomorrow. Things may move very fast now. A similar test result by same lab for gaspari detonate resulted in its prompt removal from the bb.com store. forgive the nasty language, thats kramer

    GAME OVER for FAT MATT CAHILL.

    CRAZE Berry Lemonade Lot # 1211372 bought from independent store and shipped directly to the lab found to contain ETHamphetamines ...

    Odd how this lot # is not among the "clean" samples allegedly sent to the lab by Matt Cahill...

    The lab indicated there are approximately 8mg per gram.... which means if one serving of Craze is 5.8 grams you would be ingesting about 46.5 grams of ETHamphetamines..

    In comparison I was told the Detonate that was tested contains approximately 24mg per capsule.

    Matt Cahill sending "clean versions" to the lab is fooling no one... except maybe Anthony Connors (aka Anthony Roberts) BUT since he's already a fool, I guess he doesn't count.

    I'm looking forward to see Matt Cahill back behind bars where he belongs ASAP.

    Other "HOT" lot #'s coming soon!!
    Looks like I won't be buying anymore craze.....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    Looks like I won't be buying anymore craze.....

    I have no problem if you buy it. But if you do, i suggest you buy it up what u can while its still out there
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Sorry, I don't understand all the chemistry stuff. Is there a name for the secret ingredient or is it similar to a class of drug I can research? I would like to know what the hell I put in my body over a year ago.
    William Llewellyn's Anabolics, Underground Anabolics, and SSRG ebook editions!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I have no problem if you buy it. But if you do, i suggest you buy it up what u can while its still out there
    Would you know where to get the old formula, I cant seem to find it? I tried the new one and liked it but I heard the old formula was crazy. About this whole meth thing, I believe legally its a problem when it comes to random piss tests at peoples jobs or if someone is recovering for a meth problem but if that is not an issue, I do not think once people run out of Craze they will start to withdrawal from the probably little about of this meth compound and start buying meth off the streets. As a heath issue I have no say in it because I do not know too much about that stuff, I think this issue is going out of hand and some people might be over reacting but but this is just an opinion not fact and just my 2 cents in this little situation.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post

    I have no problem if you buy it. But if you do, i suggest you buy it up what u can while its still out there
    I'd rather stay away from ampehatmines...

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post
    Sorry, I don't understand all the chemistry stuff. Is there a name for the secret ingredient or is it similar to a class of drug I can research? I would like to know what the hell I put in my body over a year ago.

    N-ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butanamine


    U might consider it a bath salt in some respects (a non controlled active amphetamine derivative)
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  14. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Would you know where to get the old formula, I cant seem to find it? I tried the new one and liked it but I heard the old formula was crazy. About this whole meth thing, I believe legally its a problem when it comes to random piss tests at peoples jobs or if someone is recovering for a meth problem but if that is not an issue, I do not think once people run out of Craze they will start to withdrawal from the probably little about of this meth compound and start buying meth off the streets. As a heath issue I have no say in it because I do not know too much about that stuff, I think this issue is going out of hand and some people might be over reacting but but this is just an opinion not fact and just my 2 cents in this little situation.

    the pharmacology of this compound appears to have a diminished dopaminergic component which would make it less addictive then meth. still it is powerful, synthetic, not listed on the label, and quite possibly considered schedule I via the federal analogue act
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the pharmacology of this compound appears to have a diminished dopaminergic component which would make it less addictive then meth. still it is powerful, synthetic, not listed on the label, and quite possibly considered schedule I via the federal analogue act
    I have been wondering for some time how these "bath salt" and "incense" companies operate under the federal analogue act not to mention the nightmare of credit card processors. I had a hard time finding a processor to use just selling simple research chemicals not related to any scheduled substance, and if I tried to sell any PDE-5 inhibitors forget it...that would drop me instantly.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/229429-my-fat-mess.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I have been wondering for some time how these "bath salt" and "incense" companies operate under the federal analogue act not to mention the nightmare of credit card processors. I had a hard time finding a processor to use just selling simple research chemicals not related to any scheduled substance, and if I tried to sell any PDE-5 inhibitors forget it...that would drop me instantly.
    its a cat and mouse thing and they make it tough. the analog act say the compound has to be marketed for human consumption to qualify. So they sell for uses not for consumption and put not for consumption on the label

    Craze of course makes bold claims for amphetamine like properties and is clearly for human consumption .
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  17. I took some Berry Lemonade Craze about 8 weeks ago and noticed the effects. I took a six-week break from lifting so I wasn't taking any pre-workouts; last week I took 1 full scoop of the same tub of Craze and felt nothing. I've had results like this with Craze every tub I've tried; sometimes it works great; other times I fell nothing. I've had the same experience with the Grape flavored Craze.

    Pat, do you have a theory why I have such inconsistent results with Craze? It doesn't really matter now as I don't plan on taking it again. Just curious why sometimes it works while other times it doesn't.

  18. I bought a package of "incense" one time. I smoked it. I got half way through about a nickel sized joint, and had to toss it d/t being too fckd up to finish. I cant believe it actually worked. I was so wasted. then when I sobered up, the worse crash ever. pretty much exactly like crystal meth. the headache was horrible.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post
    I took some Berry Lemonade Craze about 8 weeks ago and noticed the effects. I took a six-week break from lifting so I wasn't taking any pre-workouts; last week I took 1 full scoop of the same tub of Craze and felt nothing. I've had results like this with Craze every tub I've tried; sometimes it works great; other times I fell nothing. I've had the same experience with the Grape flavored Craze.

    Pat, do you have a theory why I have such inconsistent results with Craze? It doesn't really matter now as I don't plan on taking it again. Just curious why sometimes it works while other times it doesn't.
    I am no PA but, I would guess some are spiked some are not you might want to watch the lot numbers and see if there is a correlation.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/229429-my-fat-mess.html

  20. Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I am no PA but, I would guess some are spiked some are not you might want to watch the lot numbers and see if there is a correlation.
    It's always been with the same tubs. One dose will work great another day; a week later the same dose from the same tub will do nothing. Really strange.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I bought a package of "incense" one time. I smoked it. I got half way through about a nickel sized joint, and had to toss it d/t being too fckd up to finish. I cant believe it actually worked. I was so wasted. then when I sobered up, the worse crash ever. pretty much exactly like crystal meth. the headache was horrible.
    HaHa not for human consumption sir! I honestly cant image using methamphetamine my methylphenidate gives me enough anxiety I think my heart would just explode if I tried Meth...
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/229429-my-fat-mess.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    HaHa not for human consumption sir! I honestly cant image using methamphetamine my methylphenidate gives me enough anxiety I think my heart would just explode if I tried Meth...
    I was young. im older now, and don't like using anything that makes me feel ****ty afterwards. except knob creek whisky.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    this was posted on another board and the documentation supporting it should be released tomorrow. Things may move very fast now. A similar test result by same lab for gaspari detonate resulted in its prompt removal from the bb.com store. forgive the nasty language, thats kramer


    GAME OVER for FAT MATT CAHILL.

    CRAZE Berry Lemonade Lot # 1211372 bought from independent store and shipped directly to the lab found to contain ETHamphetamines ...

    Odd how this lot # is not among the “clean” samples allegedly sent to the lab by Matt Cahill...

    The lab indicated there are approximately 8mg per gram.... which means if one serving of Craze is 5.8 grams you would be ingesting about 46.5 grams of ETHamphetamines..

    In comparison I was told the Detonate that was tested contains approximately 24mg per capsule.

    Matt Cahill sending “clean versions” to the lab is fooling no one... except maybe Anthony Connors (aka Anthony Roberts) BUT since he's already a fool, I guess he doesn't count.

    I’m looking forward to see Matt Cahill back behind bars where he belongs ASAP.

    Other “HOT” lot #’s coming soon!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    N-ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butanamine


    U might consider it a bath salt in some respects (a non controlled active amphetamine derivative)
    Crooks the whole company! This is the exact **** that's going to get the supplement industry completely ****ing regulated and controlled by the fda. Think of how many high school kids were taking that **** all the while unknowingly ingesting Ethamphetamines.
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  24. I knew something wasn't right when I took a sample of the stuff when it first came out.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I knew something wasn't right when I took a sample of the stuff when it first came out.
    did you say this on the forum then? i did and i was the only one that found something wrong with it (of those who were given free samples to review on this forum) and that's what's wrong with the industry as well... people giving false feedback in hopes to get more free stuff... i was honest... i felt weird and knew something was wrong with the ingredients.
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