Oral Anabolics and GI Distress

[Duywayne]

Pat,

I have done several short cycles of oral AAS (mix between methylated and non methylated).

I noticed with every single cycle, I have had more and more GI issues during and post cycle. Even after coming off cycle, the symptoms were reduced however never disappeared. After each cycle I would say there has been a cumulative effect on my GI system. Issues I have:

-Bloating
-Gas
-Excessive Belching
-Abdominal Distension (my stomach is never flat anymore)

Is there any reason why you think that oral steroids would cause this? blood work checks out fine, shows no issues with gallbladder, bilirubin slightly high in the AM, liver values all good, no food allergies found (however I am becoming more intolerant to dairy and wheat).

Also I notice it with non anabolic hormones as well.. such as 6-OXO, 11-OXO (low dose), etc. None of my cycle have ever been more then 4 weeks.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Is it possible that you have a food allergy? I bloat with dairy, high carbs and with some types of Creatine.

 

[Duywayne]

Is it possible that you have a food allergy? I bloat with dairy, high carbs and with some types of Creatine.

Bloodwork showed negative to all food allergies we tested for (it was a 4 page list). However I do think there is some intolerance's there.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

i dont know the answer to this

 

[coolbreeze]

maybe orals somehow lead to hypertrophy of the smooth muscle (via elevated IGF levels perhaps?)

 

[bossman523]

maybe try some probiotics (greek yogurt, miso)

 

[Patrick Arnold]

maybe orals somehow lead to hypertrophy of the smooth muscle (via elevated IGF levels perhaps?)

that wouldnt lead to cramps and gas

 

[Duywayne]

maybe orals somehow lead to hypertrophy of the smooth muscle (via elevated IGF levels perhaps?)

Cant imagine that causing it.

My inclination was something out of whack with intestinal flora. Did a 2 week run of Xifaxin (non-systemic antibx, used to treat SIBO) but that did nothing for me. Still trying different strains of propboitics to see if there is any shift there but not finding any help with those either. Or its possible i have not found the right one..

 

[celc5]

I had a similar experience following a few cycles. That was maybe 3 yrs ago and the dairy/wheat intolerance hasnt really improved.

I now monitor my diet to some extent. And i have to be very consistent with probiotics and lactase enzymes, which helps a bit.

I wish I had more to offer other than a related subjective experience. Just know that I share ur frustration.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

i am having gut issues that came out of nowhere myself. its a mystery

 

[bossman523]

i am having gut issues that came out of nowhere myself. its a mystery

do you eat bread? i found that when i gave up bread and eliminated dairy my stomach issues went away. i have since re-introduced dairy (although less than i was consuming) and my stomach problems have gone away. the only time i have a little stomach distress is when i drink too much coffee or eat too much at once.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

do you eat bread? i found that when i gave up bread and eliminated dairy my stomach issues went away. i have since re-introduced dairy (although less than i was consuming) and my stomach problems have gone away. the only time i have a little stomach distress is when i drink too much coffee or eat too much at once.

i dont eat bread

 

[bossman523]

good job. i hope your gi distress clears up soon!

 

[JD261985]

Dude just chalk it up as a side effect from the PH/DS you use. I mean its not the biggest deal in the world lol

 

[bossman523]

I am worried about Pat.

 

[Duywayne]

Candida overgrowth? possible?

 

[Beejis60]

i dont eat bread

P28 be mad at you now.

 

[celc5]

I mean its not the biggest deal in the world lol

I encourage u to think this through again. A critical component of bodybuilding, sport training, and health is diet, no? Take away 10-20% of ur normal daily caloric options and u have a massive lifestyle adjustment on ur hands.

 

[bossman523]

they discussed this on dr. oz a couple of weeks ago. to test it, ur supossed to spit into a glass of water, first thing in the morning. if there is yeast overgrowth, it will look stringy in the water with white discoloration. probably has pics or the episode itself on the web site or hulu. they recomended probiotics and avoiding simple sugars to treat it.

love Dr. Oz!!

 

[goat23]

I believe and it's total bro science your body holds onto any carbs and they don't get digested thus the belly! Happens to me every cycle and 2 weeks into pct it's gone, on cycle your body needs a **** load more carbs. Lol least my misses puts up with me farting : ) I know it's the juice cause I've kept my macros exactly the same into pct this time and the belly is gone

 

[bigt405]

This also has happened to me when I took SD, Pmag and epistane, but for some reason the old Pheraplex or Xtren never caused these issues. I do not think it is carb related because i eat low carb all year. It would be great if someone knew a definite way to control this........

 

[goat23]

Meth related then maybe???

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I believe and it's total bro science your body holds onto any carbs and they don't get digested thus the belly! Happens to me every cycle and 2 weeks into pct it's gone, on cycle your body needs a **** load more carbs. Lol least my misses puts up with me farting : ) I know it's the juice cause I've kept my macros exactly the same into pct this time and the belly is gone

well at least you are aware its bro science

 

[jbryand101b]

i dont know the answer to this

This is not the question your looking for...waves hand...

 

[jbryand101b]

well at least you are aware its bro science

At least you understood what he was talking about.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

At least you understood what he was talking about.

i didnt

 

[SPS]

I always thought GI disress on cycle was caused by your liver not producing enough bile which screws up your intestines ability to digest fat. Is that not right?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I always thought GI disress on cycle was caused by your liver not producing enough bile which screws up your intestines ability to digest fat. Is that not right?

AAS can screw with bile elimination from liver, not bile secretion. Bile builds up in liver, and thats not healthy

and correct me if i am wrong but bile is produced in gall bladder no?

 

[Bigcountry08]

AAS can screw with bile elimination from liver, not bile secretion. Bile builds up in liver, and thats not healthy

and correct me if i am wrong but bile is produced in gall bladder no?

Yeah it is.

 

[Bigcountry08]

I would cut out all dairy, and bread people complain about it at first but once you start you really start to realize how little you miss it. I used to drink a gallon of milk ever two days, and every day I felt like crap while at the gym. I chalked it up as stims and supps causing gas and stomach aches, but now I feel great every day focused on my training and not holding gas in on this lift cause of the chick right behind me.

Also I don't really see ph/sd'd being the issue I think it's diet over all. How most of us eat isn't how are bodies were designed to eat. Most lifters eat crap loads of protein ( my self included) tons of processed foods, and poor quality/ small amounts of veg. All this reeks havoc on our bodies. I now have acid reflux because how I ate when I was younger, but now that I have changed my diet I have it for the most part under control.

Enough rambling though if I were you I would try cutting out all dairy, bread and processes food from your diet. If within a month or two you don't notice anything by all means switch back but I would almost guarantee you will notice a difference.

 

[crgsander]

Bile is produced in the liver by pulling cholesterol out of the blood. The gallbladder is the storage tank for bile. When you eat the gallbladder will contract and squeeze bile into the intestine for digestion.

Back on subject, I would have mentioned gallbladder and or liver, but since you have had tests it doesn't make sense. I would ask are you on any SSRI's and drinking alcohol while taking them? That will cause the symptoms you are describing also. SSRI's can cause stomach issues even without alcohol.

 

[Bigcountry08]

Bile is produced in the liver by pulling cholesterol out of the blood. The gallbladder is the storage tank for bile. When you eat the gallbladder will contract and squeeze bile into the intestine for digestion.

Oops my bad, thanks.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Bile is produced in the liver by pulling cholesterol out of the blood. The gallbladder is the storage tank for bile. When you eat the gallbladder will contract and squeeze bile into the intestine for digestion.
.

and this is why i phrased my statement as a question!!

thx

 

[crgsander]

and this is why i phrased my statement as a question!!thx

You are correct that with AAS use, the bile ducts in the liver will start to clog, so to speak, and the build up becomes very unhealthy for the liver.

 

[SPS]

Back on subject, I would have mentioned gallbladder and or liver, but since you have had tests it doesn't make sense. I would ask are you on any SSRI's and drinking alcohol while taking them? That will cause the symptoms you are describing also. SSRI's can cause stomach issues even without alcohol.

I don't think the op stated if bloodtests were done on cycle or after.

 

[bigt405]

I would cut out all dairy, and bread people complain about it at first but once you start you really start to realize how little you miss it. I used to drink a gallon of milk ever two days, and every day I felt like crap while at the gym. I chalked it up as stims and supps causing gas and stomach aches, but now I feel great every day focused on my training and not holding gas in on this lift cause of the chick right behind me.

Also I don't really see ph/sd'd being the issue I think it's diet over all. How most of us eat isn't how are bodies were designed to eat. Most lifters eat crap loads of protein ( my self included) tons of processed foods, and poor quality/ small amounts of veg. All this reeks havoc on our bodies. I now have acid reflux because how I ate when I was younger, but now that I have changed my diet I have it for the most part under control.

Enough rambling though if I were you I would try cutting out all dairy, bread and processes food from your diet. If within a month or two you don't notice anything by all means switch back but I would almost guarantee you will notice a difference.

I don't think it can be solely diet related and has moe to do with the oral ph/ds since on cycle is the only time it happens. Also I almost never drink milk products or eat bread except for maybe one cheat meal a week.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

its possible that some steroids have anti-microbial effects of some sort. I have seen patents on steroids which are anabolic and are stated to have such activities. thats kind of a long shot explanation but its not unfeasible. theory being they would disrupt intestinal flora

 

[Bigcountry08]

its possible that some steroids have anti-microbial effects of some sort. I have seen patents on steroids which are anabolic and are stated to have such activities. thats kind of a long shot explanation but its not unfeasible. theory being they would disrupt intestinal flora

Lol, I seem to remember a csi episode where a guy was taking steroids. he came into contact with a bacteria that ate bone and they said the roids he took destroyed his immune system. So his body couldn't fight back. If I remember correctly he just got punched like once in the face and his head caved in.

 

[Duywayne]

I don't think the op stated if bloodtests were done on cycle or after.

Blood test were done post cycle. Have had multiple blood test (did one while one) and everything is generally within range.

I do notice with fatty foods it is much worse, but that is expected. I dont believe it is necessary bile related.. when you have a fatty meal it will naturally sit in your stomach for a longer period of time, which will make the bloating issues worse.

The frequent belching is the worse.. my heart rate is constantly elevated until i belch out my meal (this can take hours sometimes).

Not an alcoholic.. drink in moderation socially, so maybe 1-2 times a week.

 

[crgsander]

lol, so his problem may be that he's a depressed alcoholic?

It sounds kind of funny when you say it! Lol

 

[crgsander]

Blood test were done post cycle. Have had multiple blood test (did one while one) and everything is generally within range.

I do notice with fatty foods it is much worse, but that is expected. I dont believe it is necessary bile related.. when you have a fatty meal it will naturally sit in your stomach for a longer period of time, which will make the bloating issues worse.

The frequent belching is the worse.. my heart rate is constantly elevated until i belch out my meal (this can take hours sometimes).

Not an alcoholic.. drink in moderation socially, so maybe 1-2 times a week.

I know you disagree, but this really does sound like bile issues. You could have gall stones, did they check your gallbladder for those? A poorly functioning gallbladder also causes these symptoms.

 

[Duywayne]

I know you disagree, but this really does sound like bile issues. You could have gall stones, did they check your gallbladder for those? A poorly functioning gallbladder also causes these symptoms.

My doc is a GI & Liver specialist. He has not mentioned anything of gallstones however i will bring it up to him next appt. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Lol, I seem to remember a csi episode where a guy was taking steroids. he came into contact with a bacteria that ate bone and they said the roids he took destroyed his immune system. So his body couldn't fight back. If I remember correctly he just got punched like once in the face and his head caved in.

sounds like corticosteroids

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Blood test were done post cycle. Have had multiple blood test (did one while one) and everything is generally within range.I do notice with fatty foods it is much worse, but that is expected. I dont believe it is necessary bile related.. when you have a fatty meal it will naturally sit in your stomach for a longer period of time, which will make the bloating issues worse.The frequent belching is the worse.. my heart rate is constantly elevated until i belch out my meal (this can take hours sometimes).Not an alcoholic.. drink in moderation socially, so maybe 1-2 times a week.

do u ever get hiccups

 

[Duywayne]

do u ever get hiccups

Very very rarely

 

[hawks21]

maybe its from swallowing semen?

Lol. Seamen