OxyElite Protein claims

[Piston Honda]

Patrick - wondering if you read the claims USPLabs is making regarding protein powders as part of their advertising for their new OxyElite Protein? If you haven't seen their Inner Circle ad or any of their threads about it I can PM you. Just curious as to how legitimate their claims are; makes it seem like the whole industry is a scam.

 

[jimbuick]

This won't end well......

 

[Piston Honda]

This won't end well......

Launching grenades rarely does!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

In for the collateral damage

 

[Sprinterguy4]

USPLabs usually puts out superior products in the supp industry...lets hope the claims arent true

 

[LiveToLift]

In for the collateral damage

Heya buddy!

 

[Piston Honda]

They offered a tub to Coop for him to review, wonder if they'd do the same for Patrick?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Patrick - wondering if you read the claims USPLabs is making regarding protein powders as part of their advertising for their new OxyElite Protein? If you haven't seen their Inner Circle ad or any of their threads about it I can PM you. Just curious as to how legitimate their claims are; makes it seem like the whole industry is a scam.

can you post a link or copy and paste here so all can see?

 

[Piston Honda]

Removed by request

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Its all true what he says about the protein testing and the non protein nitrogen sources. And from what it appears all they are claiming is that they have a good protein blend that meets labels claim (unless I am missing something). So I dont think I have any problem with all this

Personally I get my protein from optimum nutrition, which is a very reputable brand and my protein is just protein (nothing else added). I would never buy one of those brands that have all that other crap in there as noted in that piece

 

[bdcc]

Unfortunately the addition of amino acid blends in protein powders is becoming more and more common.

If you Google search 'protein glycine taurine' a few threads come up on BB.com naming and shaming some of the guilty parties.

I usually buy single ingredient proteins from bulk suppliers so I didn't realise how common this was with commercial brands.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Unfortunately the addition of amino acid blends in protein powders is becoming more and more common. If you Google search 'protein glycine taurine' a few threads come up on BB.com naming and shaming some of the guilty parties.I usually buy single ingredient proteins from bulk suppliers so I didn't realise how common this was with commercial brands.

I never thought that people would put creatine in there to full the assay but it makes total sense. creatine is very cheap and it has more nitrogens per gram than just about anything else i can think of that one would put in a product

 

[bdcc]

I never thought that people would put creatine in there to full the assay but it makes total sense. creatine is very cheap and it has more nitrogens per gram than just about anything else i can think of that one would put in a product

I am also guilty of being ignorant to this. I would be curious to know some of the doses being used.

Maybe the companies in question could market it to their advantage and say their protein is perfect for the creatine loading phase lol. If they are including it for protein content it could be much higher than most people would originally assume.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I am also guilty of being ignorant to this. I would be curious to know some of the doses being used.

Maybe the companies in question could market it to their advantage and say their protein is perfect for the creatine loading phase lol. If they are including it for protein content it could be much higher than most people would originally assume.

All it takes is to make up for a few grams protein per serving to give you a competitive advantage.

Actually when everyone is cheating the same way you dont have a competitive advantage anymore.

 

[Piston Honda]

Never thought to question my protein powders before, and I question everything! Illuminating news and insight from all involved, and for that, my thanks.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Unfortunately the addition of amino acid blends in protein powders is becoming more and more common.

If you Google search 'protein glycine taurine' a few threads come up on BB.com naming and shaming some of the guilty parties.

I usually buy single ingredient proteins from bulk suppliers so I didn't realise how common this was with commercial brands.

Same for me for a long time...I like knowing and controlling what I'm using.

 

[T-Bone]

What about this?

Protein Kinetics​

​

​

When we discuss casein and whey, it's also important to consider their kinetics in terms of amino acids appearing in the bloodstream...
After all, the goal of ingesting protein is to flood the bloodstream with various amino acids, including the essential amino acids and especially BCAA, so that they can make it into skeletal muscle where they are needed...
Well, when you ingest whey protein, amino acid levels quickly peak in the blood around one hour later, but they quickly plunge thereafter...
In fact, around 4 hours after ingestion, amino acid levels have either already returned to baseline or they've actually dipped below baseline!
With casein, on the other hand, it takes around 7-8 hours (i.e., twice the amount of time) for amino acid levels to return to baseline and in the case of BCAA's, they're still elevated even after 8 hours post-ingestion. It's no coincidence then that it has been shown that around 4 hours post-ingestion of casein, it still has approximately twice the effect upon protein synthesis compared to whey.
So, not only does casein prevent the degradation of muscle protein in the body, but it provides a longer-lived increase in protein synthesis (3)...
Whey has its place, especially within that first hour after ingestion, but you had better be sure that you're still ingesting another serving of whey every hour after that...

You Must Avoid Catabolic Pitfalls​

​

​

A much simpler method to avoid catabolic pitfalls throughout the day is to use a product with both whey and casein in it in order to have a perfectly timed mix of proteins...
In other words...

If You're Drinking Whey During The Day & Casein At Night There's No Telling How Much Progress You're Leaving On The Table!​

​

​

Why You Should Never Consume Whey Or Casein Alone!​

​

​

Broscience says that by simply mixing whey with a slow-digesting/absorbing protein like casein, it will allow the whey to become slowly absorbed as well...
However, a recently conducted study has shown that this is not the case. In fact, when whey and casein are ingested at the same time, their absorption profiles essentially stay the same (2).
However, we believe this is a good thing as the whey provides a large but transient rise in amino acid levels after ingestion, allowing a rapid increase in protein synthesis that is greater than that seen with casein (3,4).

 

[T-Bone]

Any comments on that part?

 

[USPlabsRep]

I never thought that people would put creatine in there to full the assay but it makes total sense. creatine is very cheap and it has more nitrogens per gram than just about anything else i can think of that one would put in a product

betaine is another one that you wouldn't expect but much cheaper than protein and fools the test rather well..

 

[Patrick Arnold]

What about this?

Protein Kinetics​

When we discuss casein and whey, it's also important to consider their kinetics in terms of amino acids appearing in the bloodstream...
After all, the goal of ingesting protein is to flood the bloodstream with various amino acids, including the essential amino acids and especially BCAA, so that they can make it into skeletal muscle where they are needed...
Well, when you ingest whey protein, amino acid levels quickly peak in the blood around one hour later, but they quickly plunge thereafter...
In fact, around 4 hours after ingestion, amino acid levels have either already returned to baseline or they've actually dipped below baseline!
With casein, on the other hand, it takes around 7-8 hours (i.e., twice the amount of time) for amino acid levels to return to baseline and in the case of BCAA's, they're still elevated even after 8 hours post-ingestion. It's no coincidence then that it has been shown that around 4 hours post-ingestion of casein, it still has approximately twice the effect upon protein synthesis compared to whey.
So, not only does casein prevent the degradation of muscle protein in the body, but it provides a longer-lived increase in protein synthesis (3)...
Whey has its place, especially within that first hour after ingestion, but you had better be sure that you're still ingesting another serving of whey every hour after that...

You Must Avoid Catabolic Pitfalls​

A much simpler method to avoid catabolic pitfalls throughout the day is to use a product with both whey and casein in it in order to have a perfectly timed mix of proteins...
In other words...

If You're Drinking Whey During The Day & Casein At Night There's No Telling How Much Progress You're Leaving On The Table!​

Why You Should Never Consume Whey Or Casein Alone!​

Broscience says that by simply mixing whey with a slow-digesting/absorbing protein like casein, it will allow the whey to become slowly absorbed as well...
However, a recently conducted study has shown that this is not the case. In fact, when whey and casein are ingested at the same time, their absorption profiles essentially stay the same (2).
However, we believe this is a good thing as the whey provides a large but transient rise in amino acid levels after ingestion, allowing a rapid increase in protein synthesis that is greater than that seen with casein (3,4).

isnt most of this kinda common knowledge amongst people who been in the game for a while?

BTW i drink casein alone all the time. I dont think I am hurting myself. Because I actually eat meals too

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but it seems to suggest that have to constantly eat or else you'll go into some kind of catabolic state. Well, unless you're drinking plain casein protein, than you'll be ok....I don't drink much protein, would rather actually eat my food, plus I've still got all my teeth. I do like and enjoy Usp Labs products and the protein does look good. The part of the write up I posted though, I don't really agree with. That is, if I'm understanding correctly what they are trying to convey.

 

[bossman523]

i'd rather eat my protein. i have been supplementing with carnivore lately, but am thinking of giving up protein powders altogether.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but it seems to suggest that have to constantly eat or else you'll go into some kind of catabolic state. Well, unless you're drinking plain casein protein, than you'll be ok.....

huh? i drink plain casein. i also eat alot of protein from other sources. I dont eat whey. I dont think I am compromising myself one bit

If you ingest enough protein overall it does not matter what your source is. I cant emphasize that enough. Dont let people fool you with studies based on unrealistic conditions (based on one time ingestions in fasted conditions). Find a protein that you like and drink it. Ingest an abundance of protein throughout the day and you will be dandy

 

[Patrick Arnold]

and even if you dont eat protein for many hours during the day and then overcompensate with lots for a portion of the day studies find your overall protein balance will end up being pretty good. your body knows how to adjust

 

[T-Bone]

huh? i drink plain casein. i also eat alot of protein from other sources. I dont eat whey. I dont think I am compromising myself one bit

If you ingest enough protein overall it does not matter what your source is. I cant emphasize that enough. Dont let people fool you with studies based on unrealistic conditions (based on one time ingestions in fasted conditions). Find a protein that you like and drink it. Ingest an abundance of protein throughout the day and you will be dandy

I agree, that is why I questioned that part of the write up.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but it seems to suggest that have to constantly eat or else you'll go into some kind of catabolic state. Well, unless you're drinking plain casein protein, than you'll be ok....I don't drink much protein, would rather actually eat my food, plus I've still got all my teeth. I do like and enjoy Usp Labs products and the protein does look good. The part of the write up I posted though, I don't really agree with. That is, if I'm understanding correctly what they are trying to convey.

No, If you only use whey as your sole protein source in a meal, you will reach protein degradation quicker.

 

[southpaw23]

There are a lot of games played in the protein market. There was a study conducted (I'll have to dig up the PDF report) not too long ago, showing many of the popular mainstream brands failing to meet label claims. Some companies claiming 23-25 grams of protein per scoop, ended up being more along the lines of 12-15 grams per scoop. And these were big mainstream companies. I bulk order all my protein because I trust the source and I know what I'm getting.

 

[mw1]

Unfortunately the addition of amino acid blends in protein powders is becoming more and more common.

If you Google search 'protein glycine taurine' a few threads come up on BB.com naming and shaming some of the guilty parties.

I usually buy single ingredient proteins from bulk suppliers so I didn't realise how common this was with commercial brands.

So if its posted at BB.com then it must be true :chairshot:

 

[bdcc]

They post the labels of said products, yes.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but it seems to suggest that have to constantly eat or else you'll go into some kind of catabolic state. Well, unless you're drinking plain casein protein, than you'll be ok....I don't drink much protein, would rather actually eat my food, plus I've still got all my teeth. I do like and enjoy Usp Labs products and the protein does look good. The part of the write up I posted though, I don't really agree with. That is, if I'm understanding correctly what they are trying to convey.

Post-absorptively, counter-regulatory hormones are active and you are indeed catabolic. It's the net anabolism vs catabolism that ultimately dictates where you end up

 

[mw1]

They post the labels of said products, yes.

If they list the amount on the label then there is no problem.

 

[bdcc]

No, I was saying there was reliable information on BB.com threads because they name brands with amino blends on the label lol

 

[mw1]

No, I was saying there was reliable information on BB.com threads because they name brands with amino blends on the label lol

No you said they were naming and shaming the guilty parties .So far there has only been one that has been verified....the rest are just accusations by competitors and fanboys

 

[bdcc]

They have been naming and shaming labels where amino acid blends were featured in the label I.e. naming protein powders that may be using them as fillers to increase protein numbers on the nutrition panel.

For people who were unaware of what was going on it is potentially useful as more people are asking for products without added glycine.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

They have been naming and shaming labels where amino acid blends were featured in the label I.e. naming protein powders that may be using them as fillers to increase protein numbers on the nutrition panel.

For people who were unaware of what was going on it is potentially useful as more people are asking for products without added glycine.

I thought people got banned and threads closed when people criticize products on that board

 

[bdcc]

Pass. I honestly hadn't paid much attention to it until very recently. There are some profiles listed with added aminos if anyone wants bringing up to speed on the debacle.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

and even if you dont eat protein for many hours during the day and then overcompensate with lots for a portion of the day studies find your overall protein balance will end up being pretty good. your body knows how to adjust

Unrealistic condition (because they were not carb and fat included meals). BUT timing might actually matter to some degree:



Daytime pattern of post-exercise protein intake affects whole-body protein turnover in resistance-trained males


Moore, DR; Areta, J; Coffey, VG; Stellingwerff, T; Phillips, SM; Burke, LM; Cl?roux, M; Godin, JP; Hawley, JA
ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: The pattern of protein intake following exercise may impact whole-body protein turnover and net protein retention. We determined the effects of different protein feeding strategies on protein metabolism in resistance-trained young men. METHODS: Participants were randomly assigned to ingest either 80g of whey protein as 8x10g every 1.5h (PULSE; n=8), 4x20g every 3h (intermediate, INT; n=7), or 2x40g every 6h (BOLUS; n=8) after an acute bout of bilateral knee extension exercise (4x10 repetitions at 80% maximal strength). Whole-body protein turnover (Q), synthesis (S), breakdown (B), and net balance (NB) were measured throughout 12h of recovery by a bolus ingestion of [15N]glycine with urinary [15N]ammonia enrichment as the collected end-product. RESULTS: PULSE Q rates were greater than BOLUS (~19%, P<0.05) with a trend towards being greater than INT (~9%, P=0.08). Rates of S were 32% and 19% greater and rates of B were 51% and 57% greater for PULSE as compared to INT and BOLUS, respectively (P<0.05), with no difference between INT and BOLUS. There were no statistical differences in NB between groups (P=0.23); however, magnitude-based inferential statistics revealed likely small (mean effect+/-90%CI; 0.59+/-0.87) and moderate (0.80+/-0.91) increases in NB for PULSE and INT compared to BOLUS and possible small increase (0.42+/-1.00) for INT vs. PULSE. CONCLUSION: We conclude that the pattern of ingested protein, and not only the total daily amount, can impact whole-body protein metabolism. Individuals aiming to maximize NB would likely benefit from repeated ingestion of moderate amounts of protein (~20g) at regular intervals (~3h) throughout the day.

 

[USPlabsRep]

If they list the amount on the label then there is no problem.

Why?

When you test for Nitrogen they don't extract the amount listed on the label and then test for nitrogen content. The company that told you that wants you to believe that of course..

 

[USPlabsRep]

They have been naming and shaming labels where amino acid blends were featured in the label I.e. naming protein powders that may be using them as fillers to increase protein numbers on the nutrition panel.

For people who were unaware of what was going on it is potentially useful as more people are asking for products without added glycine.

glycine
alanine
taurine
betaine
creatine

 

[mw1]

glycine
alanine
taurine
betaine
creatine

Which companies were you referring about then? To make a statement like that you must have lab results...


After that we can discuss USP using their own reps for reviews if you like.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Which companies were you referring about then? To make a statement like that you must have lab results...


After that we can discuss USP using their own reps for reviews if you like.

You don't have to believe it...

 

[jimbuick]

Which companies were you referring about then? To make a statement like that you must have lab results...

After that we can discuss USP using their own reps for reviews if you like.

hmmm, that's interesting.

Neither you, or any of the other SNS reps, have ever given a review or testimony to the efficacy of the products they rep for? I wonder how you guys weigh in on questions about them then....

 

[AdelV]

Question is, which companies are safe to buy?

I have to rethink what I buy now! I normally buy products with added BCAAS etc

 

[rob112]

I think just having an amino blend largely of glycine and taurine is enough to be suspicious of protein claims...

To the guy asking who, I don't know if it is cool to name here so check the thread that bdcc mentioned. It is a good thread.

 

[AdelV]

I think just having an amino blend largely of glycine and taurine is enough to be suspicious of protein claims...

To the guy asking who, I don't know if it is cool to name here so check the thread that bdcc mentioned. It is a good thread.

Fair enough. I use to buy 80% pure bulk WPC! Im glad Usplabs made us aware, at least I know what to look for now. )

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Unrealistic condition (because they were not carb and fat included meals). BUT timing might actually matter to some degree:



Daytime pattern of post-exercise protein intake affects whole-body protein turnover in resistance-trained males


Moore, DR; Areta, J; Coffey, VG; Stellingwerff, T; Phillips, SM; Burke, LM; Cl?roux, M; Godin, JP; Hawley, JA
ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: The pattern of protein intake following exercise may impact whole-body protein turnover and net protein retention. We determined the effects of different protein feeding strategies on protein metabolism in resistance-trained young men. METHODS: Participants were randomly assigned to ingest either 80g of whey protein as 8x10g every 1.5h (PULSE; n=8), 4x20g every 3h (intermediate, INT; n=7), or 2x40g every 6h (BOLUS; n=8) after an acute bout of bilateral knee extension exercise (4x10 repetitions at 80% maximal strength). Whole-body protein turnover (Q), synthesis (S), breakdown (B), and net balance (NB) were measured throughout 12h of recovery by a bolus ingestion of [15N]glycine with urinary [15N]ammonia enrichment as the collected end-product. RESULTS: PULSE Q rates were greater than BOLUS (~19%, P<0.05) with a trend towards being greater than INT (~9%, P=0.08). Rates of S were 32% and 19% greater and rates of B were 51% and 57% greater for PULSE as compared to INT and BOLUS, respectively (P<0.05), with no difference between INT and BOLUS. There were no statistical differences in NB between groups (P=0.23); however, magnitude-based inferential statistics revealed likely small (mean effect+/-90%CI; 0.59+/-0.87) and moderate (0.80+/-0.91) increases in NB for PULSE and INT compared to BOLUS and possible small increase (0.42+/-1.00) for INT vs. PULSE. CONCLUSION: We conclude that the pattern of ingested protein, and not only the total daily amount, can impact whole-body protein metabolism. Individuals aiming to maximize NB would likely benefit from repeated ingestion of moderate amounts of protein (~20g) at regular intervals (~3h) throughout the day.

What source of protein did they use? Was it slow or fast?

And what about intakes over 80 grams over six hours?

this is interesting in that it gives us a snapshot look at protein metabolism, but its practical implications are quite limited

 

[Patrick Arnold]

the protein powder market is so competitive that mislabeling and deception are all but inevitable. Most consumers buy on price and taste and dont know enough to be wary. As I said before I buy optimum nutrition. The USP product is probably decent as well

 

[Montego1]

I get my protein from my own home grown ground chicken thrown in a blender with apple juice....I know exactly what's in it.

 

[mike0589]

I get my protein from my own home grown ground chicken thrown in a blender with apple juice....I know exactly what's in it.

Srs?

 

[Montego1]

Srs?

Extreamly