Bio-Chemical Method to Increase Muscle Tonus

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    Bio-Chemical Method to Increase Muscle Tonus


    Hi Patrick,

    There are various observations which, taken as a whole, suggest (to me at least) that a steady state of elevated tonus is very hypertrophy inducing in muscles. In other words, a constantly elevated muscle tension results in growth. The strongest scientific support for this comes from the famous bird study, where a constant stretch of their chest muscles resulted in -as far as I know- pretty much the fastest muscular hypertrophy ever on record. (this is a neat link with several relevant studies: Precision Nutrition Coaching | Forums | Loaded stretching = hypertrophy and hyperplasia I did not want clutter this thread by posting them all here).

    It is also interesting to note that people tend to report constant tension (a constant pumped feeling) from many potent AAS, and -among others of course- this may be one of the MOAs that steroids are causing muscle growth. We also know how fat guys can develop amazing calves without ever doing a set of calf work in the gym.

    My question is: Can you think of a (relatively) safe biochemical method of inducing an elevated tension in the muscles at rest, without going through the AR? Do you consider such a route feasible and/or worthy of study?

    Thank you very much for your time and attention

    Sub

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Hi Patrick,

    There are various observations which, taken as a whole, suggest (to me at least) that a steady state of elevated tonus is very hypertrophy inducing in muscles. In other words, a constantly elevated muscle tension results in growth. The strongest scientific support for this comes from the famous bird study, where a constant stretch of their chest muscles resulted in -as far as I know- pretty much the fastest muscular hypertrophy ever on record. (this is a neat link with several relevant studies: Precision Nutrition Coaching | Forums | Loaded stretching = hypertrophy and hyperplasia I did not want clutter this thread by posting them all here).

    It is also interesting to note that people tend to report constant tension (a constant pumped feeling) from many potent AAS, and -among others of course- this may be one of the MOAs that steroids are causing muscle growth. We also know how fat guys can develop amazing calves without ever doing a set of calf work in the gym.

    My question is: Can you think of a (relatively) safe biochemical method of inducing an elevated tension in the muscles at rest, without going through the AR? Do you consider such a route feasible and/or worthy of study?

    Thank you very much for your time and attention

    Sub
    biochemical?

    I suppose you can give yourself a tetanus infection. I dont think the end result would be anabolism though

    I dont agree that AAS work by causing elevated muscle tone which then inititates anabolism. I think everything sort of goes hand in hand. And when AAS start to cause excessive tonicity of muscles you end up with problems like "back pumps" and injuries
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    I assume you would want this method to be selective and somewhat transient? I can't see anything but bad news from this (even if you manage to somehow avoid the heart with it).

    Continuous muscle tension may increase hypertrophy, but I feel as though there would be health complications.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pump3d View Post
    I assume you would want this method to be selective and somewhat transient? I can't see anything but bad news from this (even if you manage to somehow avoid the heart with it).

    Continuous muscle tension may increase hypertrophy, but I feel as though there would be health complications.

    how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

    if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

    if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
    Are we talking modalities?
    Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
    There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

    A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

    Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 3–6 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as –4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    Are we talking modalities?
    Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
    There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

    A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

    Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 36 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as 4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.
    Got a link for that study? I know Bruce Lee was big into eletrical stimulation. Id like to see more studies on its effectiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    Are we talking modalities?
    Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
    There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

    A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

    Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 36 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as 4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.

    that abstract seems a little hard to believe if i read it correctly
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    Got a link for that study? I know Bruce Lee was big into eletrical stimulation. Id like to see more studies on its effectiveness.

    that wasnt really a study but a compilation of 89 studies
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    That's a fruitful discussion. Thanks for the great contributions Gentlemen

    Here is something purely anecdotal -just food for thought:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/fo...ml#post1502742

    And Patrick, just to clarify, I never meant to say that the increased tonus was the most important MOA of AAS as far as muscle growth is concerned. I merely suggested that it may be one of many MOAs involved...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    that wasnt really a study but a compilation of 89 studies
    yes, it is termed a systematic review deeming it a higher source of evidence than an RCT although I am still skeptical of the results and I also dont understand the full context of the results since I havent read the entire review. I will try and pull the entire text if anyones interested.

    The hypertrophy and strength properties of e-stim are well established in certain populations, i.e post acl reconstruction etc. Obviously most of the research has not been performed on things us strength or bodybuilder type athletes are interested in.

    yes I can probably get my hands on the full text albeit i still wont be able to post it here on the forum. I will dig around tonight or tomorrow and see if I can get any other, preferrably RCTs, on e-stim pertaining to athlete/bodybuilder type strength/hypertrophy. The russians were big into "russian stim" awhile back but im not 100% sure on the functional differences in results compared to e-stim (russian stim is considered high-frequency).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

    if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
    I could be wrong but I think I remember reading Mel siff mention electrical stimulation for something. Then again it takes just idiot to go too far with it...
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    i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman523 View Post
    i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.
    hopefully not srs

    dont think it would elicit the kind of response your inferring, the penis erects via vascular flow not muscle activation. Although you may inadvertantly stimulate the cremastric muscle (yes a real muscle) which may draw your testicles up and into you stomach
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman523 View Post
    i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.

    lol silly man. the penis is a bone not a muscle!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman523 View Post
    i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.
    Just go bang an electrical socket...

    not sure if you will need lube though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beejis60 View Post
    Just go bang an electrical socket...

    not sure if you will need lube though.
    he can lube up with that conductive gel they use for ecg
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    We use "Russian E-stim" as a protocol, but mostly for people who are very, very weak (ie someone who is having trouble contracting his/her muscle or cannot take it through the full range of motion for that joint). We don't use "Russian" that on someone who is healthy..typically we use estim for pain control, inflammation, sometimes it's used for wound healing, but I haven't seen it used for that in some time..

    Constant muscle tone, like spasticity? I can sort of understand your line of thinking, but you don't want too much of good thing (think upper motor neuron lesions, MS, stroke, spinal cord injury)..
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    hopefully not srs

    dont think it would elicit the kind of response your inferring, the penis erects via vascular flow not muscle activation. Although you may inadvertantly stimulate the cremastric muscle (yes a real muscle) which may draw your testicles up and into you stomach
    ouch!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimChee View Post
    We use "Russian E-stim" as a protocol, but mostly for people who are very, very weak (ie someone who is having trouble contracting his/her muscle or cannot take it through the full range of motion for that joint). We don't use "Russian" that on someone who is healthy..typically we use estim for pain control, inflammation, sometimes it's used for wound healing, but I haven't seen it used for that in some time..

    Constant muscle tone, like spasticity? I can sort of understand your line of thinking, but you don't want too much of good thing (think upper motor neuron lesions, MS, stroke, spinal cord injury)..
    yes understood but what about either superimposing stim over muscle contractions while exercising or isometric stim to max threshold. Not including the systematic review above for trained athletes, ive read a few studies improving vertical jump etc. Im assuming insurance companies aren't going to reimburse for stim for someone who is healthy/at the point where their looking to improve peak athletic performance so it would be understood that your russian stim protocol is catered to relatively decreased muscle performance population
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    yes understood but what about either superimposing stim over muscle contractions while exercising or isometric stim to max threshold. Not including the systematic review above for trained athletes, ive read a few studies improving vertical jump etc.
    Interesting idea;
    any input on this?
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    Yes if u read the 2nd portion of the review it suggests parameters for use. The biggest problem with stim for gains in the normal/athlete is tolerance to a high dosage of e stim; its uncomfortable to say the least
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    lol silly man. the penis is a bone not a muscle!!
    Ah it all makes sense now, the expression 'did you bone her?' and have a 'boner'? Referring of course to the fact that the penis is a bone. But why does it get soft? Bones are always hard
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    Ah it all makes sense now, the expression 'did you bone her?' and have a 'boner'? Referring of course to the fact that the penis is a bone. But why does it get soft? Bones are always hard

    osteopenosis
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    multiple skeetrosis discussions with PA.
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