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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    "D"extroamphetamine just signifies the stereochemistry. Levoamphetamine (R[-]) is also not a dopamine agonist. It also makes up a much smaller percentage of Adderall (<25%) and is significantly weaker.
    Never said l-amp was a dopamine agonist, after clearing up that I made a mistake I figured it was understood. But, Adderall is mixed amphetamine salts, IronFist. Dexedrine is d-amphetamine, Adderall is a racemic mixture of many amphetamine salts. All the other information is great too and that's definitely good to know the percentages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    vicks inhalers contain levomethamphetamine

    or used to at least
    Yeah, and people used to/still do extract it. It's an order of magnitude less potent then dextro, in addition to substantially more peripheral side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    vicks inhalers contain levomethamphetamine

    or used to at least
    I think that now they have propylhexedrine, which when extracted from the inhaler and put into large capsules and taken on a somewhat empty stomach, will produce effects akin to an extinct designer drug, known by the club name 'Glow'.
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    This thread has taken such turns, twists... now I see the pink magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    This thread has taken such turns, twists... now I see the pink magic.

    thats not a euphemism that u gone homo i hope


    .....not that there is anything wrong with that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    thats not a euphemism that u gone homo i hope


    .....not that there is anything wrong with that
    I don't know how to respond to that, without suffering backlash... ROFL
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdsfx View Post
    I've seen it first hand. Are you really going to tell me that someone who starts taking adderall will not see any appetite suppression, lowered cravings and weight loss? I've seen the reverse as well. People who take it for a long time like yourself get off it and gain a significant amount of weight. Everyone's body is different so its irrelevant to argue about dose. You've used it for years so your tolerance is through the roof. Im sure a dose that low would do nothing to you.

    I was prescribed 4mg tablets when I used it. Hence why I used that as my starting point. I have no desire to debate what size tablets they make with you. Its not relevant to my point

    Also Im not saying to take it indefinitely.
    I wasn't trying to come off as an a$$ and if I did my apologies. I did say the appetite suppression could last for a few days but the tolerance buildup tends to be rather fast. I base this on my experience, what I've seen in others firsthand and also testimonials I've read from other people (like at bluelight dot com). I agree everybody is different, but the same could be said for anything else we're talking about, like DMAA for example. I'm sure a very small amount could have one person jumping out of their skin while a dose 4x a standard serving size would barely phase the next person.
    If Adderall is manufactured in tablets less than 5mg then it's news to me. Not saying you're wrong since you say you've taken that dose. That's just the first I've heard of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    n.
    If Adderall is manufactured in tablets less than 5mg then it's news to me. Not saying you're wrong since you say you've taken that dose. That's just the first I've heard of it.

    he could be outside USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    I wasn't trying to come off as an a$$ and if I did my apologies. I did say the appetite suppression could last for a few days but the tolerance buildup tends to be rather fast. I base this on my experience, what I've seen in others firsthand and also testimonials I've read from other people (like at bluelight dot com). I agree everybody is different, but the same could be said for anything else we're talking about, like DMAA for example. I'm sure a very small amount could have one person jumping out of their skin while a dose 4x a standard serving size would barely phase the next person.
    If Adderall is manufactured in tablets less than 5mg then it's news to me. Not saying you're wrong since you say you've taken that dose. That's just the first I've heard of it.
    I've read about NMDA antagonists such as DXM, reversing amphetamine tolerance. NMDA modulation has a lot of promise in this realm. Ibogaine works by this mechanism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I've read about NMDA antagonists such as DXM, reversing amphetamine tolerance. NMDA modulation has a lot of promise in this realm. Ibogaine works by this mechanism.

    high doses of DXM are pretty insane. i was a shapeless blob on my ceiling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    high doses of DXM are pretty insane. i was a shapeless blob on my ceiling
    How'd you feel when you got down from the ceiling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    How'd you feel when you got down from the ceiling?

    it was a while before i felt normal again

    this was a very long time ago btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I've read about NMDA antagonists such as DXM, reversing amphetamine tolerance. NMDA modulation has a lot of promise in this realm. Ibogaine works by this mechanism.
    Magnesium supposedly functions in a similar manner, though from personal experience it doesn't work all that well. Heard of people using high doses of DXM on a long-term basis for this purpose, but that scares the crap out of me. The nuerotoxicity coupled with the long-term use seems like a recipe to fry one's brain.
    Certain Alzheimer's drugs are supposed to have a similar effect on amphetamine tolerance without the element of brain damage. Seems to me like that'd be the safest route to go if you actually wanted efectiveness (Magnesium is not very effective).
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    what about ketamine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    he could be outside USA
    If so I'd be interested to know which country. A lot of countries have scheduled amphetamines in what would be our equivelant to Schedule I status. Methylphenidate seems to be as far/ as strong as a lot of them will go. I believe Canada and Australia fall into that catergory, though it was quite a long time ago that I read this stuff so I may off a bit. I don't recall how they treat amphetamines in Europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what about ketamine
    Haha... I hear that works better than anything for reversing amphetamine tolerance. I also hear it will also fry your brain like an egg in a skillet, kinda like those old commercials from the early '90's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Haha... I hear that works better than anything for reversing amphetamine tolerance. I also hear it will also fry your brain like an egg in a skillet, kinda like those old commercials from the early '90's.
    ketamine (in smaller doses) actually has been shown to rapidly treat severe depression in refractory patients. of course its not really a long term solution

    i dont think it fries the brain. i think it makes you hallucinate like a SOB though in high dosages. I never tried it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    ketamine (in smaller doses) actually has been shown to rapidly treat severe depression in refractory patients. of course its not really a long term solution

    i dont think it fries the brain. i think it makes you hallucinate like a SOB though in high dosages. I never tried it
    Yeah, I knew a guy that was into "Special-K" pretty heavy. He told me he would set an alarm or even an egg timer to help him "snap out of it" (his words) after a given period of time. That spooked me a bit and I decided then that I'd never try it.
    I have read about it being theraputic for depressed individuals that were resistant to main line anti-depressants like SSRI's. MDMA has shown similar results as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicoacademia View Post
    ok so i missed the fun n games.
    but notice no one mentioned this one point.

    marketing was mentioned. but not the budget that goes behind it.

    hey give me hundred thousand dollars to market something i'd make believers out of most.

    i'd say compare the budgets allocated.

    i tell you when you put a $ figure to things people start to wince.

    you just can't question PA.

    He made it all Clear.
    How clever.
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    i ate special k for breakfast once,
    I was able to maintain DB kickbacks for 4 straight hours
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    While you are quite right about adderall's ability to reduce "reward system" hunger, you are replacing food with a stimulus of far greater magnitude in both total and rate of dopamine release in the VTA-> Nuc Accumbens. So what happens when it's time to go off adderall? They turn to an old friend: food. And now they need so much more of it to get "high."
    Neuroplasticity means they have the ability to condition themselves to eat and behave a certain way. Its not ideal I'll give you that. But what I'm proposing is simply help getting started. Quite frankly being obese and having a poor diet is worse for you short and long term. Again Im not claiming its the perfect solution or solves the problem completely. At least without any work from the user to change their lifestyle and eating habits. Exercise has its own reward system within the brain and I think simply being healthier, and looking and feeling better. Will help their mental state immensely. So they wouldnt need to turn back to it. Those that have more complicated reasons for their "emotional eating" will obviously still have to cope and deal with those issues. All that said though Mr. Cooper the same argument you present can apply to supplements as well. I know that you are a big proponent of ALCAR. Which I know from experience (one of my staples) has an impact on appetite as well. So maybe thats the place to transit to when coming off adderall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Magnesium supposedly functions in a similar manner, though from personal experience it doesn't work all that well. Heard of people using high doses of DXM on a long-term basis for this purpose, but that scares the crap out of me. The nuerotoxicity coupled with the long-term use seems like a recipe to fry one's brain.
    Certain Alzheimer's drugs are supposed to have a similar effect on amphetamine tolerance without the element of brain damage. Seems to me like that'd be the safest route to go if you actually wanted efectiveness (Magnesium is not very effective).
    You're right, they used to use magnesium to block NMDA transmission to anesthetize animals, but when tried on humans they died shortly after waking or didn't wake at all due to toxicity. Magnesium regulates NMDA through voltage channels, but not directly at the receptors. It does compliment amps very well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what about ketamine
    Off the top of my head, yes ketamine's on the list... Some are partial antagonists, but the short list from memory is:
    Agmatine
    DXM
    ketamine
    ibogaine hcl and iboga root extract (both banned, but findable)

    *pure NMDA in Intimidate has an effect that seems to act as a partial nmda antagonist, because with Testforce 2 I get amped up and nmda powder, I get sleepy and loopy if I have to wake to piss. It reminds me of Citicoline v. alpha gpc. Citicoline @ night = no, morning = yes. Alpha GPC morning = maybe, but many use at night and it's great in hGh blends. They both metabolize to acetylcholine, though Citicoline also breaks off into uridine as well, but they have different 'side benefits', persay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    If so I'd be interested to know which country. A lot of countries have scheduled amphetamines in what would be our equivelant to Schedule I status. Methylphenidate seems to be as far/ as strong as a lot of them will go. I believe Canada and Australia fall into that catergory, though it was quite a long time ago that I read this stuff so I may off a bit. I don't recall how they treat amphetamines in Europe.
    Oddly enough, methylphenidate has actually been effective at reversing amphetamine tolerance. It's a quazi-paradox, in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Yeah, I knew a guy that was into "Special-K" pretty heavy. He told me he would set an alarm or even an egg timer to help him "snap out of it" (his words) after a given period of time. That spooked me a bit and I decided then that I'd never try it.
    I have read about it being theraputic for depressed individuals that were resistant to main line anti-depressants like SSRI's. MDMA has shown similar results as well.
    Yeah, the dosage curve with even pure ketamine can be tricky, let alone garbage on the street floating around at times. There's a small window for an effective dose and then further up in dosage, walking the line between what's real and falling into a K-hole can be difficult to manage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Oddly enough, methylphenidate has actually been effective at reversing amphetamine tolerance. It's a quazi-paradox, in my opinion.

    methylphenidate is not nearly as clean as amphetamine

    seemed somewhat more anxiety provoking if i recall. Its been like 15-20 years since i touched such stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    I wasn't trying to come off as an a$$ and if I did my apologies. I did say the appetite suppression could last for a few days but the tolerance buildup tends to be rather fast. I base this on my experience, what I've seen in others firsthand and also testimonials I've read from other people (like at bluelight dot com). I agree everybody is different, but the same could be said for anything else we're talking about, like DMAA for example. I'm sure a very small amount could have one person jumping out of their skin while a dose 4x a standard serving size would barely phase the next person.
    If Adderall is manufactured in tablets less than 5mg then it's news to me. Not saying you're wrong since you say you've taken that dose. That's just the first I've heard of it.
    I may have been a little over sensitive in my response as well. I'm not outside the u.s.a the dose I had was 4 mg extended release and they were capsules. It has been 3 years so I suppose it is possible I'm mistaken about it. Regardless it was very small and did not provide a stim high it simply made me forget to eat. My roommate who has been on it for several years says he has the same problem. So while the appetite suppression may even out over time. I think its just as likely people get used to the reduced appetite until they come off and it comes back
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicoacademia View Post
    ok so i missed the fun n games.
    but notice no one mentioned this one point.

    marketing was mentioned. but not the budget that goes behind it.

    hey give me hundred thousand dollars to market something i'd make believers out of most.

    i'd say compare the budgets allocated.

    i tell you when you put a $ figure to things people start to wince.

    you just can't question PA.

    He made it all Clear.
    Good point. I'm not targeting any company directly whatsoever, but if: Company A gets $50,000 and Company B gets $50,000, if Company A takes the money and puts plain arginine in capsules and spends $15 on Cap 'Em Quick and the $49,985 on a marketer and Company B builds the website him/herself, spends all the money on the r & d for the product and pays for a minimum batch at a cGMP facility... Company A would likely have a few more bucks than Company B.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    methylphenidate is not nearly as clean as amphetamine

    seemed somewhat more anxiety provoking if i recall. Its been like 15-20 years since i touched such stuff
    Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe the d-methylphenidate isomer (Focalin trademark) will have the same effect on amp tolerance. Focalin is like Ritalin with a clearer mind and no peripheral sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdsfx View Post
    I may have been a little over sensitive in my response as well. I'm not outside the u.s.a the dose I had was 4 mg extended release and they were capsules. It has been 3 years so I suppose it is possible I'm mistaken about it. Regardless it was very small and did not provide a stim high it simply made me forget to eat. My roommate who has been on it for several years says he has the same problem. So while the appetite suppression may even out over time. I think its just as likely people get used to the reduced appetite until they come off and it comes back
    I hear you on that and I think that's great that the time-release spansules gave you all-day appetite suppression. That dose must be your sweet spot, which is difficult for many to find.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Oddly enough, methylphenidate has actually been effective at reversing amphetamine tolerance. It's a quazi-paradox, in my opinion.
    If someone with ADHD taking Adderall were able to tolerate Ritalin or Focalin, then it would seem that staggering the two would be ideal. Two weeks Adderall/ two weeks Methylphenidate. I don't think this is widely practiced amongst physicians though. Some doctors will prescribe a time-released version with an immediate release "booster" to be taken once the initial IR dose wears off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    If someone with ADHD taking Adderall were able to tolerate Ritalin or Focalin, then it would seem that staggering the two would be ideal. Two weeks Adderall/ two weeks Methylphenidate. I don't think this is widely practiced amongst physicians though. Some doctors will prescribe a time-released version with an immediate release "booster" to be taken once the initial IR dose wears off.
    I agree that it would be a great dosing scheme. Another recommendation I would make would be to try dosing 1 5mg Dexedrine XR (or Adderall XR) in the AM and then after about 4 hours dose the Focalin XR @ 10mg and while the Dexedrine curve is declining the Focalin XR instant release beads in the capsule will provide a boost and the extended release beads taper off into the evening while reversing most of the tolerance to the amphetamines.

    Some supplements that would probably completely erradicate tolerance with this method (cheap too) would be to add NAC @ 600mg, 3x per day, pregnenolone spray or FOCUS by AF, and agmatine @ 500mg, 2x per day, and maybe consider adding your favorite choline source starting at a low dose and l-theanine, for it's effects on increasing DA, 5HT, and GABA and modulating nmda receptors. Magnesium sprayed on the feet (veins) 30 minutes before bed, then wiped off before going into bed works great for sleep too and would further regulate voltage channels.
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    I don't know how many other Pink Magic threads are out there, but this one takes the f.u.c.k.ing cake!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    I don't know how many other Pink Magic threads are out there, but this one takes the f.u.c.k.ing cake!
    Do you believe in magic?
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Do you believe in magic?
    Well after this thread and the one about Craze I.... still don't. That's for ineffective and/or adulterated dietary supplements! If you can't make something that works without spiking it then maybe it's time to find another line of work. I hear California and Florida are nice this time of year... and the oranges are delicious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Well after this thread and the one about Craze I.... still don't. That's to ineffective and/or adulterated dietary supplements! If you can't make something that works without spiking it then maybe it's time to find another line of work. I hear California and Florida are nice this time of year... and the oranges are delicious.
    Florida and Cali are nice this time of year, for sure. Cali was nice and dry though.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Magnesium regulates NMDA through voltage channels, but not directly at the receptors.
    The NMDA receptor is a voltage-gated channel which is directly blocked by magnesium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Heard of people using high doses of DXM on a long-term basis for this purpose, but that scares the crap out of me. The nuerotoxicity coupled with the long-term use seems like a recipe to fry one's brain.
    DXM is the opposite of the neurotoxin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    DXM is the opposite of the neurotoxin.
    I've heard both sides with little evidence on either to back them up. I prefer to err on the side of caution when my brain is involved. Wish I had done the same with my HPTA when I was in my 20's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Florida and Cali are nice this time of year, for sure. Cali was nice and dry though.
    Either is better than Cowtown, USA. (a.k.a. the Midwest). Furthest west I've been is Vegas. In the midst of my 12-week "Vegas cut" right now for a June trip. It's amazing what guys will put themselves through because of hot tail. God forbid I tossed some Pink Magic into my cocktail of supplements...
  

  
 

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