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  1. Quote Originally Posted by punjabimunde View Post
    Why did Theraflu and Bronkaid got banned??

    Banned? I think these were just pulled off the shelves voluntarily. no?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author


  2. Quote Originally Posted by punjabimunde View Post
    Why did Theraflu and Bronkaid got banned??
    Bronkaid was a recall from what I was told at CVS
    Mr. Supps Board Rep
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  3. Yea that's what I meant but what made them recall these products...even NyQuil pills
    "Difficult things take a long time, impossible things take a little longer."
    OG Punjabi Avenger

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The 1,3 DMAA is undoubtedly causative and not merely correlated. The caveat is that it is a cause. This looks like a 3-hit case:

    1. Predisposition
    2. Exercise
    3. 1,3 DMAA

    An NE reuptake inhibitor should act as a positive inotrope (SV)/chronotrope (HR) and also increase afterload/TPR. This will drive up MAP and create an increased cardiac metabolic demand. Now you pair this with exercise (increased HR, mildly increased SV) and metabolic demand further increases. Now finally pair these two with a predisposition (e.g. poor coronary blood flow -> environmental; left-dominant heart -> genetic) and it is quite possible that metabolic demand exceeded metabolic supply and cardiac arrest ultimately occurred.
    Mr. Cooper, undoubtably you are one of the smartest men I've interacted with on the boards. You also have a way with words moreso than most politicians (a good trait), but past the nicely framed and worded post, is a meaningless point. Anything that constricts blood vessels (albeit caffeine) could do something to someone with a cardiac predisposition after intense exercise sessions. All else aside, Jack3d had a matrix of stimulants, not just 1,3DMAA.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Mr. Cooper, undoubtably you are one of the smartest men I've interacted with on the boards. You also have a way with words moreso than most politicians (a good trait), but past the nicely framed and worded post, is a meaningless point. Anything that constricts blood vessels (albeit caffeine) could do something to someone with a cardiac predisposition after intense exercise sessions. All else aside, Jack3d had a matrix of stimulants, not just 1,3DMAA.
    I appreciate the kind words man. Let me clarify something so you can see it from my point of view:

    -Jack3d has 2 stims: caffeine and 1,3D
    -Schizandra actually reduces afterload (human study) and thus TPR/CO
    -Arginine will have no effect on BP or a slight reduction (less afterload)
    -Creatine and BA won't really affect cardiovascular parameters

    Taking those into account, you're looking at caffeine and 1,3D (plus 2 ingredients that may have the opposite effect). Caffeine is synergistic with the NE reuptake properties of 1,3DMAA; so is exercise, which increases NE release into the synaptic cleft (or adrenal medulla).

    So a vasoconstricutor would not have the same effect as 1,3 DMAA per se. DMAA hits more than just TPR; it hits cardiac output too, and it does so in a manner that becomes more pronounced with caffeine and/or exercise. Inhibitors of eNOS or other vasoconstrictors would not have this effect
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Mr. Cooper, undoubtably you are one of the smartest men I've interacted with on the boards. You also have a way with words moreso than most politicians (a good trait), but past the nicely framed and worded post, is a meaningless point. Anything that constricts blood vessels (albeit caffeine) could do something to someone with a cardiac predisposition after intense exercise sessions. All else aside, Jack3d had a matrix of stimulants, not just 1,3DMAA.
    Mr. Coopers area of expertise is a valuable complement to my area of expertise and that of the other smart folks on this board
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  7. I appreciate both of you taking the time to be on these forums. Thanks.

  8. What I don't get is why they say 80 reported cases like that a large number when aspartame and MSG have 200 times more and are often not even know ingredients with little to no warning labels. It's all money and politics.
    WWW.ANDRO FACTORY.COM
    Use NADDANME for a 15% discount or PM me for current discounts

  9. Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME View Post
    What I don't get is why they say 80 reported cases like that a large number when aspartame and MSG have 200 times more and are often not even know ingredients with little to no warning labels. It's all money and politics.
    Most adverse event reports are ridiculous anyway but you have to report them the the FDA regardless.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Mr. Cooper, undoubtably you are one of the smartest men I've interacted with on the boards. You also have a way with words moreso than most politicians (a good trait), but past the nicely framed and worded post, is a meaningless point. Anything that constricts blood vessels (albeit caffeine) could do something to someone with a cardiac predisposition after intense exercise sessions. All else aside, Jack3d had a matrix of stimulants, not just 1,3DMAA.
    I think that was the point, that it was only part of the equation. Most people that use it are not dropping like flies, so it isn't the only factor.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by punjabimunde View Post
    Why did Theraflu and Bronkaid got banned??
    It's not banned. Know your facts before spreading gossip.
    E-Pharm Nutrition Representative
    WARNING: I tend to speak my mind and will verbally assault you if you are a tool. My words do not necessarily represent the official opinion of E-Pharm, but most likely, they do.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Beejis60 View Post
    It's not banned. Know your facts before spreading gossip.
    Read the next posts and get ur fact straight before you start typing
    "Difficult things take a long time, impossible things take a little longer."
    OG Punjabi Avenger

  13. Quote Originally Posted by punjabimunde View Post
    Read the next posts and get ur fact straight before you start typing
    I know the facts long before anyone ever posted.
    E-Pharm Nutrition Representative
    WARNING: I tend to speak my mind and will verbally assault you if you are a tool. My words do not necessarily represent the official opinion of E-Pharm, but most likely, they do.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    PA brought/popularized:

    1,3D
    DAA
    COP
    Ursolic Acid

    USPLabs brought/popularized:

    Cissus
    Berberine
    Mucuna/L-dopa
    Rauwolscine

    Kudos to both
    I thought Matt/RPN brought rauwolscine to the market?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I thought Matt/RPN brought rauwolscine to the market?
    He did.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    He did.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I thought Matt/RPN brought rauwolscine to the market?
    Name:  heat3d.jpg
Views: 435
Size:  43.5 KBCirca 2004
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I thought Matt/RPN brought rauwolscine to the market?
    Indeed he did, but USPlabs popularized it

  18. The original heat stack was under Avant Labs not RPN was it not? I thought Par Deus was the one who first introduced alpha-y

    where is @Rodja

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  19. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I thought Matt/RPN brought rauwolscine to the market?
    Rauwolscine = yohimbe ... That's how it sneaked past Aussie customs for a good couple of years

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Captn_the View Post

    Rauwolscine = yohimbe ... That's how it sneaked past Aussie customs for a good couple of years
    Honestly, the should of fined Usplabs & the distributor. They should of cleared that, tho Im sure they lost tonz of stock.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    The original heat stack was under Avant Labs not RPN was it not? I thought Par Deus was the one who first introduced alpha-y

    where is @Rodja

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    Matt and Caleb have had a working relationship for a long time. It's why Napalm is in Eviscerate.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    The original heat stack was under Avant Labs not RPN was it not? I thought Par Deus was the one who first introduced alpha-y

    where is @Rodja

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2
    Matt used to work for Avant.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  23. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post

    Honestly, the should of fined Usplabs & the distributor. They should of cleared that, tho Im sure they lost tonz of stock.
    2 year TGA investigation
    Minimum $10m fine

    More fines due soon... I'm sure you're already aware.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Captn_the View Post
    Rauwolscine = yohimbe ... That's how it sneaked past Aussie customs for a good couple of years

    no its alpha yohimbine and it was quite popular before USP labs ever touched it.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  25. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I appreciate the kind words man. Let me clarify something so you can see it from my point of view:

    -Jack3d has 2 stims: caffeine and 1,3D
    -Schizandra actually reduces afterload (human study) and thus TPR/CO
    -Arginine will have no effect on BP or a slight reduction (less afterload)
    -Creatine and BA won't really affect cardiovascular parameters

    Taking those into account, you're looking at caffeine and 1,3D (plus 2 ingredients that may have the opposite effect). Caffeine is synergistic with the NE reuptake properties of 1,3DMAA; so is exercise, which increases NE release into the synaptic cleft (or adrenal medulla).

    So a vasoconstricutor would not have the same effect as 1,3 DMAA per se. DMAA hits more than just TPR; it hits cardiac output too, and it does so in a manner that becomes more pronounced with caffeine and/or exercise. Inhibitors of eNOS or other vasoconstrictors would not have this effect
    I see. Thanks, Coop.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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