Supplements for rookies

[muad33b]

That should be the case with nearly every kind of creatine.



"the Cr and Mg(2+)-Cr groups were similar in both performance tests"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142029

Fair enough, although it doesn't directly address the idea of adding carbs, that's certainly some data that suggests good ol' creatine mono shouldn't be counted out, especially considering the price... at least in this study there's no difference. I'd experiment with it a bit, but I don't like eating any macros that close to my workout.

Anyhow, while a valid point to be made, that doesn't detract from the overall point that I'm trying to make, in fact it really supports it... the part of about the OP not spending the big bucks on the "MRI NO2 Red" for $70 from GNsee, and more caffine-powder kitchen-sink 50-ingredient proprietary-blends masquerading as pre-workout formulas, the dosage of which ingredient at that point you can't determine (and manipulate/play with individually to improve efficacy for your body) never mind taking it more that just pre-workout to let it build up in your system without having to get cracked out on the blend... but rather stick with less expensive basics that have more solid science behind them for helping him add lean mass... adding mass being something that one does from eating more, and trying to keep that mass lean with proper exercise and supplementation.

There's lots of small changes that folks would make to some of the suggestions I've made above, for the pre-workout timeframe he could go with Clearshot and get a healthy dose of Citrulline Malate (which is also known to reduce fatigue and improve endurance like Beta Alanine) and take that with some creatine mono... I'm just trying to give him a simple clear answer to a complex question with the goal of getting him to focus on basics, and not get taken in by fancy boxes and high prices at retail rip off joints. I could have suggested Patrick's Effervescent COP, which I'm taking presently and like for a bunch of reasons.

Really, I could have said any creatine, I just picked one... I personally feel like the the Green Mag worked better with less water retention for me that regular creatine mono, but the idea for the OP is: pick a creatine you like, add in some stims (if you like them) and simple, proven other things that help you lift more weight more times, like Beta Alanine, Citrulline Malate, etc... making sure you're getting an effective dose of those things (for less $$) and then go lift heavy and eat a lot. Like Ronnie Colman says, "everyone wanna be a bodybuilder, don't no one wanna lift no heavy ass weight", which really should be followed with ", force themselves to eat more food then they want when they wanna bulk, less food then they want when they cut, make sure they get good sleep, manage their injuries, etc..."

Incidentally, that reminds me that in my description of the many benefits of "UR Spray" above, I neglected to mention that many folks (including myself) have reported sleeping much better while using the product, which is another great bonus, for a variety of reasons.

[truthornothin]

Ok, I'm pretty new to the supp game, so I'm looking for an opinion from someone other than the person at ***! I'm 31 years old, 5'7" and about 155/160 lbs. I'm in decent shape and fairly strong compared to most guys I meet my size. My goals are to gain lean mass (whose isn't) as well as overall strength building. So here is what I'm taking (it seems like a long list):
in the morning, *** strength vita pack (6 pills), MRI's NO2 Red (just switched from black), and LuRong (deer antler)
Pre-workout, I have tried a few different things, mostly NO Explode by BSN. I've tried a few others, but I hear C4 is great too.
Post-workout, ***'s AMP wheybolic 60 protein shake, then NO2 red again before bed.

Since I've started this routine the results have been great, but I just wanna make sure I get the most bang for my buck. My workout routine varies as well, I try to keep my body guessing. I work out 3/4 times a week at a Crossfit gym, and 3/4 times a week doing standard weight training, all the while tossing some running in..... I hate friggin running!!

So, based on this, any suggestions?

Late to the thread and there is a lot of good advice here. Just don't think supplements will do it all. I take a lot of them, but I've been working out since I was 15, for me to gain anything requires more than just effort it requires an intelligent approach. I will give you advice I wish someone had given me when I started. You do not grow when you are training, you grow at rest. So make sure you rest. You cannot build a house without bricks. Nutrition is your brick. You have to eat a lot to grow a lot. Do not however eat haphazardly. Eat a lot of good quality protein and good fats, olive oil, coconut oil,(not the hydrogenated kind) and avocados. Eat your eggs ,cholesterol is the building block of testosterone, don't be afraid, I eat close to a dozen a day and my lipids are beautiful..that being said stay far away from sugar and white flour they are horrible for your lipids. Proved that to myself on the atkins diet. Eat as unprocessed as possible. Choose your supps wisely 2 or three good ones are better than a shelf full of mediocre ones. Use them to accentuate your hard training and careful diet but they are not magic. I am the worlds biggest fan of Ursolic acid and Ur-Spray is my fave, no doubt if I could only afford one supp that would be the one I chose after Protein(bricks). But without the drive and will to push yourself ... no supp is going to do it for you. But they can magnify your efforts. If you read any of my logs you will see my staples, others rotate in and out but those are my core. I've been at this a long time and I am getting old. I have not the time nor money to waste on that that isn't proven to work

[toddgranit]

Late to the thread and there is a lot of good advice here. Just don't think supplements will do it all. I take a lot of them, but I've been working out since I was 15, for me to gain anything requires more than just effort it requires an intelligent approach. I will give you advice I wish someone had given me when I started. You do not grow when you are training, you grow at rest. So make sure you rest. You cannot build a house without bricks. Nutrition is your brick. You have to eat a lot to grow a lot. Do not however eat haphazardly. Eat a lot of good quality protein and good fats, olive oil, coconut oil,(not the hydrogenated kind) and avocados. Eat your eggs ,cholesterol is the building block of testosterone, don't be afraid, I eat close to a dozen a day and my lipids are beautiful..that being said stay far away from sugar and white flour they are horrible for your lipids. Proved that to myself on the atkins diet. Eat as unprocessed as possible. Choose your supps wisely 2 or three good ones are better than a shelf full of mediocre ones. Use them to accentuate your hard training and careful diet but they are not magic. I am the worlds biggest fan of Ursolic acid and Ur-Spray is my fave, no doubt if I could only afford one supp that would be the one I chose after Protein(bricks). But without the drive and will to push yourself ... no supp is going to do it for you. But they can magnify your efforts. If you read any of my logs you will see my staples, others rotate in and out but those are my core. I've been at this a long time and I am getting old. I have not the time nor money to waste on that that isn't proven to work

Fantastic post!!!
Everyone new to training should read that.
I applaud you sir.
Peace

[muad33b]

Late to the thread and there is a lot of good advice here. Just don't think supplements will do it all. I take a lot of them, but I've been working out since I was 15, for me to gain anything requires more than just effort it requires an intelligent approach. I will give you advice I wish someone had given me when I started. You do not grow when you are training, you grow at rest. So make sure you rest. You cannot build a house without bricks. Nutrition is your brick. You have to eat a lot to grow a lot. Do not however eat haphazardly. Eat a lot of good quality protein and good fats, olive oil, coconut oil,(not the hydrogenated kind) and avocados. Eat your eggs ,cholesterol is the building block of testosterone, don't be afraid, I eat close to a dozen a day and my lipids are beautiful..that being said stay far away from sugar and white flour they are horrible for your lipids. Proved that to myself on the atkins diet. Eat as unprocessed as possible. Choose your supps wisely 2 or three good ones are better than a shelf full of mediocre ones. Use them to accentuate your hard training and careful diet but they are not magic. I am the worlds biggest fan of Ursolic acid and Ur-Spray is my fave, no doubt if I could only afford one supp that would be the one I chose after Protein(bricks). But without the drive and will to push yourself ... no supp is going to do it for you. But they can magnify your efforts. If you read any of my logs you will see my staples, others rotate in and out but those are my core. I've been at this a long time and I am getting old. I have not the time nor money to waste on that that isn't proven to work

Yea, I definitely agree with everything you've said here... and it clearly echo's the theme that solid training and diet are keys, to which you can add a small amount of good supplements to help speed up your progress. I just want to make sure folks know that I wasn't advocating poor quality food choices, especially if you're like me and put on weight easily and t's loosing it that's tough... but it seemed to me the OP was in the "hardgainer" category, which from my observation usually translates to "does not eat enough" which was why I was trying to hammer that point home. Making "healthy food choices as often as you can" is a theme I use with my kids... of course, it's important to be able to diet flexibly and indulge in cheat foods... preferably after a workout while spraying some UR Spray. :-)

That said, you've definitely also hammered home an important point about healthy fats, which should be at least 20% of your calories for hormonal substrate. I would suspect you can triple dose TF2, but with no dietary fat, you'd have pathetically low T levels.

Anyhow, lots of posts by other folks, but nothing further from the OP. I wonder if he's even read any of this fruitful discussion?

[DonnyG]

I sleep with my girlfriend at night. Is UR spray safe for her if/when she undoubtedly rubs up against me?

Thanks

[truthornothin]

I sleep with my girlfriend at night. Is UR spray safe for her if/when she undoubtedly rubs up against me?

Thanks

Ur-Spray is non Hormonal and totally safe for the gf, If you want a firmer fitter gf have her use it too.

[DonnyG]

Ur-Spray is non Hormonal and totally safe for the gf, If you want a firmer fitter gf have her use it too.

Truth I appreciate it buddy. Would you say that UR spray affected your appetite in any significant way?

[truthornothin]

Truth I appreciate it buddy. Would you say that UR spray affected your appetite in any significant way?

At first is seemed too, but there was no major appetite suppression, that being said it makes my appetite less of a hazard

[truthornothin]

Truth I appreciate it buddy. Would you say that UR spray affected your appetite in any significant way?

No Problem, There appears to be moderate appetite suppression, that being said it makes my appetite less of a hazard, especially carbs, I can eat more with less damage. Usually carbs = instant fat for me. Its much better with the Ur-Spray take the carbs away however and the results are rapid

[Cary K]

Mix your creatine with your protein & drink em @ the same time...

Unless they are both flavored of course.

Because a green apple/chocolate combo won't be good

[Patrick Arnold]

in the latest study the rats on ursolic acid ate more than the controls. that was after being on it for a while.

it doesnt really appear that there is a significant affect on appetite either way with the spray. with humanoids

[Applejackd]

Depends on the nature of both the protein and creatine. (assimilation, supporting function, etc are all factors).

[Wrivest]

Wow, haven't checked the thread in a few days, but TONS of great advise here! So, in the meantime I have cut back on a few unnecessary things (GN stuff) and tried focusing on heavier weights and eating more. Someone earlier asked why I do Crossfit, and the answer is yes im military, and I also play a lot of sports, so the athletic type training helps with all that. I realize it makes gaining harder, but the benefits are still huge in strength and athleticism.
Either way, thanks for all the info, much appreciated!!

[Cary K]

Wow, haven't checked the thread in a few days, but TONS of great advise here! So, in the meantime I have cut back on a few unnecessary things (GN stuff) and tried focusing on heavier weights and eating more. Someone earlier asked why I do Crossfit, and the answer is yes im military, and I also play a lot of sports, so the athletic type training helps with all that. I realize it makes gaining harder, but the benefits are still huge in strength and athleticism.
Either way, thanks for all the info, much appreciated!!

What branch of the military?

[SBH]

I'm currently using creatine ethyl ester along with protein/dextrose preworkout. Also mix whey and soy because the phytoestrogen genistein has a positive effect on the fat burning effects of ur-spray, also on peptides. Uh-oh here it comes!

[SBH]

Could possibly work better for women

[muad33b]

Wow, haven't checked the thread in a few days, but TONS of great advise here! So, in the meantime I have cut back on a few unnecessary things (GN stuff) and tried focusing on heavier weights and eating more. Someone earlier asked why I do Crossfit, and the answer is yes im military, and I also play a lot of sports, so the athletic type training helps with all that. I realize it makes gaining harder, but the benefits are still huge in strength and athleticism.
Either way, thanks for all the info, much appreciated!!

Yea, that was me.... it makes sense if you're in the military. You might consider periodizing your training tho, say one interval cycle (week, month) do 1 Crossfit and 3 "bodybuilding" or "powerlifting" sessions... then next interval flip that... personally what I'm trying to get to is 3x/week jogging+BJJ, 3x/week powerlifting, 1x/week GPC (General Physical Conditioning) type stuff... both things like Crossfit and MMA style workouts fall under that GPC umbrella.

Glad we could help.

[muad33b]

I'm currently using creatine ethyl ester along with protein/dextrose preworkout. Also mix whey and soy because the phytoestrogen genistein has a positive effect on the fat burning effects of ur-spray, also on peptides. Uh-oh here it comes!

You mean cause the science behind CEE means it's mostly turning into creatinine in your gut and just puts a negative load on your kidneys and little creatine in your muscles? i.e. creatine mono is superior, here's a couple of studies:

http://www.jissn.com/content/6/1/6

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411845

Save your $$ and go with creatine monohydrate, or with something like Green Mag (which uses Magnesium Creatine Chelate and Dicreatine Malate) if you're not a fan of taking mono.

[Wrivest]

What branch of the military?

USAF

[Patrick Arnold]

You mean cause the science behind CEE means it's mostly turning into creatinine in your gut and just puts a negative load on your kidneys and little creatine in your muscles?.

doesnt all the creatine u ingest no matter if its monohydrate or whatever pretty much turn into creatinine before its excreted? It just converts a lot quicker with CEE