AKG vs ARGININE PYROGLUTAMATE FOR BOOSTING GH LEVELS

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    Question AKG vs ARGININE PYROGLUTAMATE FOR BOOSTING GH LEVELS


    Hi everyone....i wanted to know which one would be a better option akg or arginine pyroglutamate for boosting my gh levels.And also arginine/ornithine or arginine/lysine? can i stack all the three ??

    really confused please help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy4 View Post
    Hi everyone....i wanted to know which one would be a better option akg or arginine pyroglutamate for boosting my gh levels.And also arginine/ornithine or arginine/lysine? can i stack all the three ??

    really confused please help.
    Its generally considered that these approaches do not yield much of anything in regards to body composition changes or other expected benefits of GH
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    You may want to look at the protocols discussed in the BAC website/catalog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy4 View Post
    Hi everyone....i wanted to know which one would be a better option akg or arginine pyroglutamate for boosting my gh levels.And also arginine/ornithine or arginine/lysine? can i stack all the three ??

    really confused please help.
    I've tried every combo of arginine and ornithine and discovered I'd just wasted my money, no deeper sleep nor any other signs of GH release. It doesn't work IMO and experience
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    OKAY,thank you all.
    how about power full and is-test GF,has anyone tried it ??
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    Arginine is proven to attenuate the GH response to training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Arginine is proven to attenuate the GH response to training.


    try replacing "proven" with "has been demonstrated"

    It seems like nit picking but in the science world you do not use the absolute term "proven" unless its something that is at the level of an issac newton law of physics or something.*

    One study demonstrating something is certainly intriguing and worthy of notice, but it by no means represents something has been "proven". Countless times you find that studies can completely contradict previous ones




    * Unless it involves MuscleTech
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    try replacing "proven" with "has been demonstrated"

    It seems like nit picking but in the science world you do not use the absolute term "proven" unless its something that is at the level of an issac newton law of physics or something.*

    One study demonstrating something is certainly intriguing and worthy of notice, but it by no means represents something has been "proven". Countless times you find that studies can completely contradict previous ones




    * The single exception appears to be results obtained from the use of MuscleTech products
    Thank you for this!

    I really tire of seeing people throw around the word "proven" or "fact" or any other equivalent when discussing if something is effective or not. Everything really is just a theory not facts. There are very few "facts" or "laws" in science and even then these are all just theories. Hell the law stating all organic life must be comprised of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen & phosphorus was accepted as fact for decades and recently scientist discovered an arsenic-based life form that defies this "law".

    Point being there are no facts or proven ingredients, only theories.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    . Hell the law stating all organic life must be comprised of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen & phosphorus was accepted as fact for decades and recently scientist discovered an arsenic-based life form that defies this "law".

    .

    the woman that reported those arsenic findings from that lake has been under tremendous attack from here peers. Its questionable the interpretation of her results is valid. But thats neither here not there, your point is made
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the woman that reported those arsenic findings from that lake has been under tremendous attack from here peers. Its questionable the interpretation of her results is valid. But thats neither here not there, your point is made
    Really? Hmm... I didn't see anything about it but then again I haven't been really following it. Just saw the article when the discovery was first made.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Really? Hmm... I didn't see anything about it but then again I haven't been really following it. Just saw the article when the discovery was first made.
    i think i recently just read about it in discovery magazine while on an airplane. it was an interview with her
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    try replacing "proven" with "has been demonstrated"

    It seems like nit picking but in the science world you do not use the absolute term "proven" unless its something that is at the level of an issac newton law of physics or something.*

    One study demonstrating something is certainly intriguing and worthy of notice, but it by no means represents something has been "proven". Countless times you find that studies can completely contradict previous ones




    * Unless it involves MuscleTech
    Lol at muscltetech. Yeah, and to be perfectly frank, I don't think arginine really has an effect on GH either way. Of all the major ingredients that I have researched in this industry, arginine's literature is the most ambiguous, but with the most recent studies evaluating relevant populations using relevant parameters, arginine certainly appears bunk for NO boosting, performance enhancement, or GH boosting (that is, unless administered intravenously).
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    If anyone wants to use amino's to boost growth hormone try buying a book call "OPTIMUM SPORTS NUTRION Your Competitive Edge" by Dr Michael Colgan. Its out of print but you can pick up second hand book off amazon. This book outlines in great detail all the necessary requirements such as timing, dosages and other co factors as it is not just a simple case of slaming down amino's and hoping for the best!
    Have you read or heard this book Patrick? Love to get your thoughts on it!!!
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    I believe for arginine to increase GH a bulbous dose has to be injected, not taken orally, no? I believe they actually use this little test for testing gh deficiencies in adolescence
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Thank you for this!

    I really tire of seeing people throw around the word "proven" or "fact" or any other equivalent when discussing if something is effective or not. Everything really is just a theory not facts. There are very few "facts" or "laws" in science and even then these are all just theories. Hell the law stating all organic life must be comprised of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen & phosphorus was accepted as fact for decades and recently scientist discovered an arsenic-based life form that defies this "law".

    Point being there are no facts or proven ingredients, only theories.
    There was never a "law" about the compounds of life. It was always just shown thermodynamically that the ones we see now in most life forms are the most favorable. And the microbe in that lake uses phosphorous normally... it was just "shown" in that study that under phosphorous deficient conditions arsenic could be used to play a similar role as phosphorous in function. But yes we are learning new things every day I saw a study showing a particles was shown to move faster than light...but that is still under investigation.

    Edit: also, as one of my professors always said...evolution is a theory, kinda like gravity (theories are pretty tried and tested). ok rant over.
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    False alarm everyone light is still the fastest. We can all sleep soundly now. http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/17/r...-now-forget-e/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singo View Post
    If anyone wants to use amino's to boost growth hormone try buying a book call "OPTIMUM SPORTS NUTRION Your Competitive Edge" by Dr Michael Colgan. Its out of print but you can pick up second hand book off amazon. This book outlines in great detail all the necessary requirements such as timing, dosages and other co factors as it is not just a simple case of slaming down amino's and hoping for the best!
    Have you read or heard this book Patrick? Love to get your thoughts on it!!!

    that book is so ancient and out of date. its a good book if you like history i suppose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    I believe for arginine to increase GH a bulbous dose has to be injected, not taken orally, no? I believe they actually use this little test for testing gh deficiencies in adolescence
    bolus not bulbous lol

    arginine can raise gh orally, however you need to take an uncomfortable and impractically high dose on an empty stomach for the most part.

    fasting raises gh too. lots of things do. GH sometimes acts in concert with cortisol as a stress hormone to help liberate fatty acids for energy. GH doesnt always just function as an anabolic hormone in the body
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post

    Edit: also, as one of my professors always said...evolution is a theory, kinda like gravity (theories are pretty tried and tested). ok rant over.
    so you are saying that since evolution is a theory, and creationism is also a theory, both should be taught in school? that what you sayin? huh? huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    bolus not bulbous lol

    arginine can raise gh orally, however you need to take an uncomfortable and impractically high dose on an empty stomach for the most part.

    fasting raises gh too. lots of things do. GH sometimes acts in concert with cortisol as a stress hormone to help liberate fatty acids for energy. GH doesnt always just function as an anabolic hormone in the body
    autocorrect is a hell of a feature lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    so you are saying that since evolution is a theory, and creationism is also a theory, both should be taught in school? that what you sayin? huh? huh?
    Creationism is not a "theory" in the scientific sense. I am saying there is a difference between someone using theory in every day terms and what a scientific theory represents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    autocorrect is a hell of a feature lol
    yeah

    blame it on autocorrect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    yeah

    blame it on autocorrect
    I will blame it on whatever I want

    But back to the topic. So all of these products with ornithine are a waste of money as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    I will blame it on whatever I want

    But back to the topic. So all of these products with ornithine are a waste of money as well?

    thats a broad question. i am not going to say every formula that contains ornithine as an ingredient is worthless

    if your question is "is ornithine worth the money if your goal is to raise GH levels in the body and recieve noticeable physiological benefits" then i would say no
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    I will blame it on whatever I want

    But back to the topic. So all of these products with ornithine are a waste of money as well?
    I think so, I was trying that stuff back in the eighties taking mega doses of arginine and ornithine, Fasting hours before bed and nothing to show for it but credit card stubs to the the healthfood store. I am surprised those supps and that thinking has survived this long. You youngsters have no idea, in the 80's if .000000000000000001 % of the supplements out back then were efficacious I'd be f'ing stunned. Protein not withstanding
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I think so, I was trying that stuff back in the eighties taking mega doses of arginine and ornithine, Fasting hours before bed and nothing to show for it but credit card stubs to the the healthfood store. I am surprised those supps and that thinking has survived this long. You youngsters have no idea, in the 80's if .000000000000000001 % of the supplements out back then were efficacious I'd be f'ing stunned. Protein not withstanding
    today it either works like superdrol or you get accused of being a scam artist

    there was nothing but crap in the 80s and early 90s. gainers fuel. not only was it all sugar but somehow they managed to make it disgusting tasting too. i mean, you have the ingredients that any fool can make taste good yet they amazingly formulated it to actually taste disgusting. that took some effort
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    today it either works like superdrol or you get accused of being a scam artist

    there was nothing but crap in the 80s and early 90s. gainers fuel. not only was it all sugar but somehow they managed to make it disgusting tasting too. i mean, you have the ingredients that any fool can make taste good yet they amazingly formulated it to actually taste disgusting. that took some effort
    Tell me about it, do you remember the liquid Hydrolyzed protein in the 80's that stuff was next to impossible to drink cherry flavor my ass....then to add insult to injury it was pretty much gelatin one of the lowest yielding protein sources out there. I mean jello tastes good. Why couldn't this stuff. The first supplement I ever took that I knew was working was 1-AD ...swear to God
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    Tell me about it, do you remember the liquid Hydrolyzed protein in the 80's that stuff was next to impossible to drink cherry flavor my ass....then to add insult to injury it was pretty much gelatin one of the lowest yielding protein sources out there. I mean jello tastes good. Why couldn't this stuff. The first supplement I ever took that I knew was working was 1-AD ...swear to God

    sometimes the cherry stuff tasted good sometimes it was horrible. very bad quality control back then
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powercage View Post
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