- 01-23-2012, 10:29 AM
your a fan of taking niacin pre working out for increased growth hormone.. but is there ANY evidence increased growth hormone does anything positive? I´ve only read a study that showed HGH increased muscle mass but not strength.. so I´m guessing it was just bloating. Also there are plenty of athletes that have had pituary problems that resulted in agromegaly.. those guys must produce insane amounts of HGH 24/7, yet they aren't that muscular at all. In fact athletes with acromegaly seem extremely slow moving to me(bigfoot silva, nicolai valuev etc.).. which seems to support added body weight without added strength/speed.
- 01-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Those acromegaly guys are a bit different than athletes with normal levels who boost their levels. Athletes taking HGh can see a nice increase in performance. Acromegaly perhaps can be distinguished from supplementation in that levels my remain in a constant and damgerously high state as opposed to quick spikes. Those you speak of have a debilitating type of illness that effectively weighs body down. Post growth plate closure spikes probably give athletic benefits without all of the adverse effects of acromegaly. My fear with GH is shift in xy axis or shutdown. My natural levels using igf1 as a marker are naturally out if range high even at 44 (300 to 350 range). I see an Olympic trainer who is also an anti aging endo that monitors my blood and hormone levels. My GH levels seem to keep me younger looking, great skin, great hair quality, and good body composition with great sex drive.
I sustained a pretty serious orthopedic injury big wave surfing Dungeons in South Africa and resorted to a conservative dose of GH to assist in healing and recovery and to get back on tour. Stuff worked wonders in many ways. I can see how pro athletes would be tempted to remain on long term, especially pitchers. I pitched long relief in college and nagging aches and tender elbow keep me from starting. GH would gave eradicated that and probably kept velocity at a constant 3 to 5 mph higher. GH is really a wonder drug feeling when one gets a little bit older and endocrin system slows or for athletes whose bodies and joints take huge abuse on a daily basis.
- 01-23-2012, 03:44 PM
No offence, but I just don't trust what people say. I´ve heard a bunch of people praising HGH.. but I´ve heard the same about deer antler powder, muscletech products and feng shui. Hence I´m looking for actual studies.
Why would relatively small spikes result in great things... but long term very high HGH only show up negative things. Acromegaly sufferers aren't cut.. they aren't muscular and they don't have nice skin. In fact they'rey usuall slow and age like crap and they get arthritis a lot. As far as I know acromegaly happens post growth plate closure... before it the result is gigantism.
01-23-2012, 08:50 PM
I am not sure what you are saying. You seem to indicate that pulses wouldn't do anything or that gh is like herbal products most of which are bs. I think acromegaly and gigantism is proof enough of the strength of GH. Both conditions may be caused by a binding protein that extends the half-life of igf and causes devastating effects and disfiguring growth. This is proof positive of the power of gh and igf.
As indicated, my endo works with Olympic athletes. She also was a gold medalist for Russia in the 70s and she was trained in endocrinology in Europe. She was one of the pioneers for diet and hormone balance for Olympic athletes and was doing this stuff before it was vogue.
I use her as I am a big wave surfer (Chopes, Jaws, Maverks, Cloud Break, Dungeons, Ship Stern, Ghost Tree and etc.) and, at 44, I have to be in extreme condition just to survive for another day. I primarily get IV treatments such as Myers, glutathione, O2 saturation and dietary analysis along with constant monitoring of hormones. I have broken a femur, hip, both shoulders, and a skull fracture in extreme sports. I used gh to heal heal a femur in 1/2 normal time and was back on tour 6 months later surfing Pipe, Jeffries and etc. with no problems.
I wont do gh as my natural igf levels are optimal and a bit out of range high, which is great. My skin, body composition, hair and etc. look 10 to 15 younger. My libido is also through the roof.
I know many people on gh who have lower range igf1 and they all had dramatic improvements in body composition (not bulked out roid look), increased collagen and elasticity in skin, hair pigment improves or returns and hair texture shifts from wiry grey. This stuff also heals and grows bone, muscle, tissue, tendons and etc. and probably could add years on to a professional athletes career.
HGH can be the true fountain of youth if used correctly, monitored closely and you get it directly from a PHARMACY. Screw buying hgh from friend, guy at gym, off net or from China or Mexico though. Must know exactly what you getting.
IGF1 is tested by my doc because of the extremely short half-life of hgh. This also why you get like 7 pulses in 24 hours. Don’t need constant dose because: (1) the sheer strength of gh; and (2) constant or excess presence causes disfiguring growth. This stuff is way stronger than roids and targets much more than roids. Not many know when and to to properly use it though.
01-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Again.. I´ve heard people say amazing things about HGH, but is there any proof of this? Actual studies? Like I said before.. I´ve heard plenty of people claim it's great stuff, but people have noticed great stuff even on placebo. Studies are essential.
To me acromegaly is certainly not proof of anything positive. It shows HGH can make certain bones grow, but it also suggests athletes that have over a thousandfold dose of HGH don't have any more muscle than others. Certainly proof it does something.. but not that it has any positive effect on body composition or aging. I´m sure if an athlete had an abnomaly that caused him to have a thousandfold production of testosterone that person would be a hulk. How is HGH then more powerful than testosterone? Is there ANY clinical evidence of this?
How is skin elasticity even measured? Doesn't hair go gray because pigment cells in the hair follicles die... does HGH make them go Lasarus?
01-23-2012, 10:41 PM
Lots of studies if you want to search. Some things cannot be measured. I can see a difference in people I know that have taken it, but then again they were older and/or had a medical need for it. My doctor won't write it if not indicated and there are mo off label uses so to speak. Stupid for young healthy people to take it though. Really just a drug for us old farts.
What proof do you need. I am not going to sling names around, but easy to see which stars are taking it. Also, the performance advantage of Olympic athletes to baseball players speaks volumes and is precise reason for ban. Probably had a much bigger impact on sports than most realize until better testing came along. I would take the advantage provided by GH in sports over that provided by AAS any day, unless offensive lineman or something.
Oh, and try healing a compound femur fracture in 6 weeks. I don't even think you could come close to that with forteo and a bone stimulator.
But seriously, makes no difference to me if you believe or don't believe. Seems like your mind was made up before you asked the question. All of your questions can be answered with easy research. Take to long to go point by point. I would not put AAS in my body. Don't need them, don't want them and don't want to look like that. I have body composition that chicks dig from 35 years if competing surfing and extreme sports. When my skin sags and I start feeling and showing my age, I will jump on hGH. Until then natural.
01-24-2012, 11:20 AM
My mind's not made up. In order to find out the truth one must doubt everything. The limited studies I´ve found aren't impressive and the acromegaly cases seem to support the studies. If you or anyone else here has time, please link me to studies that show more positive things than I´ve read regarding body composition. I don't plan on taking HGH myself, but I know many that want to and I´m just trying to seperate the truth from the hype.
01-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Haha, not quit sure what to say about the hang up on acromegaly and equating that serious health condition to the fact that GH doesn't work. Scary thing is, it works too good. Take a few ius of the REAL (not crap you buy off street or net) stuff a day for a short period of time and see how you feel. Fountain if youth there waiting for us all if taken when time is right and in a correct manner.
01-24-2012, 12:06 PM
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01-24-2012, 06:58 PM
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Considering (at least in the US) that GH is only prescribed for cases of deficiency or AIDS, and not legally prescribed for impriovements in performance or body composition, you are going to be hard pressed to find studies that evaluate exogenous GH administration on performance.
I'm not sure how the acromegally examples relate to the question. First off, the cases are few. Second, we are dealing with excessively high GH levels throughout development and post development; whereas in the case of GH administration for performance, it is supraphysiological levels post development.
Also, for GH to exert and effect on skeletal muscle there must also be mechanical and chemical signals local to the muscles. Neither GH nor IGF1 will act on a muscle cell unless that myocyte has been stimualted to translocate receptors either via contraction or muscle damage. We speculate this because of the studies that show although squatting releases significant amount of GH, there is not change to the upper body musculature unless accompanied by training.
01-25-2012, 02:46 AM
I see people come in for their GH scripts and talk to them while getting other IVs and never heard anything but glowing remarks about how they felt. Will anything grow muscle if you just sit around and do nothing. GH may not make you huge like roids, but it gives speed endurance, repairs connective tissues, bone and etc. GH is perfect for pitchers, runners and any sport that is brutal on joints. Is it not older body builders that turn to GH when nothing else works to keep a competitive egde. I have heard that from a few. These guys swear by it. How many baseballs took it. No one will know because of testing issues back when it was so prevalent. Home runs down a bit, fastballs a little slower, and don't see many geriatrics out there growing 99 mph day in and day out now.
02-03-2012, 07:21 PM
I have ordered a PCT in the past and can't get it on a website anymore is there a good PCT that is good from a reputal company and not get burned.???
02-27-2012, 08:32 PM
Hopefully Dana has time to offer insight into this. I´m a HGH sceptic until Doc says otherwise.
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