Bromocriptine and leptin - AnabolicMinds.com

Bromocriptine and leptin

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    Bromocriptine and leptin


    I was reading lyle mcdonalds book on bromocriptine and leptin saying that due to it being a Da2 agonist and partion D1 agonist its potential effects on dieting are mediated my it "leptin mimicking" properties,

    now with this said i would assume for dieting individuals, taking 2.5mf for 2 days every 4 or 5 days would work well in cycles of 2 weeks at a time, then the last cycle having a carb meal since messing with the dopaminegic system can be potentially harmful in terms of

    LH and testosterone, poor prolactin estrogen balance etc (Seth roberts book anabolic pharmacology) and in one of his threads.

    Can you give some insight for those who possibly are looking into dropping more body fat, consisten use of this anchillary, and potential/harmful effects of everyday use or spuratic use?

    Thanks

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    bump
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    bromo will destroy your hunger, i strugged getting in 1000 cals, i would throw up 3xtime a day constantly i dropped like 5% on it with epi and other goodies
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp
    bromo will destroy your hunger, i strugged getting in 1000 cals, i would throw up 3xtime a day constantly i dropped like 5% on it with epi and other goodies
    My god that sounds scary. What was the delivery system for bromocriptine? Inj? Or can you actually orally ingest it?
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    oral, never heard of injecction...yeah its horrible man you feel like **** but youll loose a lot of weight with out trying
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    I've been looking at it and researching for the past week

    I'll try it soon, purpose for me would be its ability of increasing leptin
    and rebalancing hormones (due to extreme and prolonged diet),
    restoring/increasing metabolism.
    It also have several other benefits..
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    im seeing a trend of people using it however, L dopa may work the same if it acts on d2r. if not then i dont know.
    ?
    Rocha, did you experience exotic behavoir? like more risky, more addictive etc?

    another issue with things like dopamine agonist is the way it increases histamine receptors much like clen would, so an anti histamine may be in order to keep effectiveness.

    its actually funny studies show it decreases circadian leptin in obese individuals probably due to resistance, by possible allowing leptin to pass the BBB to reduce hunger and increase thermogenesis. but whats funny is Prolactin is needed in neogenesis of beta cells of the pancreas. now the issue is lower prolactin injections proverd to be more beneficial then higher prolactin levels. go figure.

    also prolactin INCREASES in pregnant women. Theres a bunch of information out there.

    Bromocriptin blocks somatostatin, so maybe pre bed is best bet to exert its effect.
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    no nothing at all i expected that too but no i did not infact i experience the opposite, like i didnt need anything or anyone
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp
    no nothing at all i expected that too but no i did not infact i experience the opposite, like i didnt need anything or anyone
    Wow interesting indeed.
    Sparked my interest. Lol
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    MAYBE ill try it on a bulk with tren and test and adex and igf1. for 8 weeks

    may be worth a shot with IF based keto diet (3000-4000 cals) keep off fat, block somatostatin.
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    you i consider myself mentally tough i dont complain too often about supps and sides like on sd i didnt complain about all the horrible sides i just took it but man if there was ever a time to complain about something giving you sides it was on bromo
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    what time of the day did u take it, im thinking right before bed, so by morning its not too too bad. although i assume a halflife of 2 days with this
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    what time of the day did u take it, im thinking right before bed, so by morning its not too too bad. although i assume a halflife of 2 days with this
    it didnt matter but i took it in morning and at night split up
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    5mg?
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    actaully i think 2.5 but at times id go up to 5
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    hmm wonder what the docs views on this are,

    coming off did you have problem with prolactin based sides? rebound in weight gain?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    hmm wonder what the docs views on this are,

    coming off did you have problem with prolactin based sides? rebound in weight gain?
    nope
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp
    nope
    Sounds like should be used more lol.

    What are the negs? Toxicity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Sounds like should be used more lol.

    What are the negs? Toxicity?
    the negs are you feel like crap and want to kill yourself
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp

    the negs are you feel like crap and want to kill yourself
    Hmm. I see. That can be quite a goo reason to stay away from this lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Hmm. I see. That can be quite a goo reason to stay away from this lol.
    id say so...but ive been using prami and noticed that if taken high enough it will cause the exact same sides as bromo. again you have to dose higher though. at the normal dose its fine...np
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    id say so...but ive been using prami and noticed that if taken high enough it will cause the exact same sides as bromo. again you have to dose higher though. at the normal dose its fine...np
    but are effects the sdame?
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    i dont get your question
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    u switched bromo for prami?

    not the same thing right??? so in that case are pramis effects different then bromos in terms of weight loss appetite etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    u switched bromo for prami?

    not the same thing right??? so in that case are pramis effects different then bromos in terms of weight loss appetite etc.
    yeah prami gives no sides, for the most part, it does however make me sleepy as isht, plus it has the added benefit of increasing hgh a significant amount, which maybe explain the increase in hunger at times but at other times hunger isnt good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    yeah prami gives no sides, for the most part, it does however make me sleepy as isht, plus it has the added benefit of increasing hgh a significant amount, which maybe explain the increase in hunger at times but at other times hunger isnt good.
    so subbin prami for bromo is good idea..

    hmmm ill research more
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    Hmmm that'd be interesting... Unless you're taking prami to fight if prolactin on a tren cycle and not using it for it's bromocriptine effects on leptin.
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    yeah for prolactin its better but if you tryin to use it for cutting or starving purposes bromo will do.
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    wow... this stuff sounds awful... why not just take a tone of thyroid hormones and run around all day to burn fat????

    I couldnt even stand the sides I got from Clen, felt like crap, my body ached all over and I had a constant headache.... I cant imagine taking anything that does the things your mentioning there rochabp...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    the negs are you feel like crap and want to kill yourself
    Haha! It was worth it though, right?
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    Bromo has been around for 30 years, everyone reacts differently to different stuff,
    there's people having bad sides with freakin' aspirin..
    McDonald book explains in details everything about it, I decided to try it after reading it,
    researching and speaking with people, while I'm still researching (out of curiosity mostly)
    there's no other way to see what can do for you. On paper looks very interesting for where
    I am right now

    Sides get noticeable (according to the script) with much higher dose, at 2.5/5mg
    after the first few days there shouldn't be any. With that said, the advice is to start low
    of course and reach the right dose progressively
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    Subbed for the Docs response; good info otherwise
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    wow... this stuff sounds awful... why not just take a tone of thyroid hormones and run around all day to burn fat????

    I couldnt even stand the sides I got from Clen, felt like crap, my body ached all over and I had a constant headache.... I cant imagine taking anything that does the things your mentioning there rochabp...
    clen sides are nothing compared to bromo sides in my experience no joke take clan sides and multiply by a good 5 or 6 times (noexagggeration at all)

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Haha! It was worth it though, right?
    haha, no way jose
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    im stil researching theres a lot of info, not much on enhanced leptin sensitivity thouhg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    clen sides are nothing compared to bromo sides in my experience no joke take clan sides and multiply by a good 5 or 6 times (noexagggeration at all)
    yup... never touching that stuff.... noooooo spank you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    I was reading lyle mcdonalds book on bromocriptine and leptin saying that due to it being a Da2 agonist and partion D1 agonist its potential effects on dieting are mediated my it "leptin mimicking" properties, now with this said i would assume for dieting individuals, taking 2.5mf for 2 days every 4 or 5 days would work well in cycles of 2 weeks at a time, then the last cycle having a carb meal since messing with the dopaminegic system can be potentially harmful in terms of LH and testosterone, poor prolactin estrogen balance etc (Seth roberts book anabolic pharmacology) and in one of his threads.
    I have, unfortunately not been privy to McDonald's work outside of ketogenic variants ("The Ketogenic Diet" / "UD 2.0" / "Quick Fat Loss Handbook" or whatever the last one is called); but I am sure it's well written and thought-provoking. One might even say he was WAY AHEAD of his time; the quick-acting variant (Cycloset) was approved in the treatment of type 2 Diabetics after unequivocal data suggesting Bromocriptine improves glycemic control and glucose tolerance in obese type 2 diabetic patients. Both reductions in fasting and postprandial plasma glucose levels appear to contribute to the improvement in glucose tolerance. The bromocriptine-induced improvement in glycemic control is associated with enhanced maximally stimulated insulin-mediated glucose disposal. Keep in mind that despite all of this; body comp remained the same...so one must ask why they truly want to use it.

    Now, I am afraid that studies trying to illicit what exact mechanism is on hand have fallen short of task except in cases of obesity, namely those related to hyperprolactinemia. Bromocriptine is interesting in that there appears a transient increase in leptin in this scenario followed by a lowering of leptin (probably a result of lower BF); similarly, circadian levels of leptin actually FALL as well in obese subjects in response to prolactin.

    What does this mean? There's a positive response for dopamine agonism and it could prove very quintessential for those harboring low serum gonadotropins or high prolactin and subsequent low gonadotropins; but we cannot generalize to the "normal" population, although it is thought-provoking, it simply has NOT translated itself well to the real world. If body comp is impacted, and that's why I would anticipate you'd use it in the first place, then it's likely that you'd be lowering leptin secondary to body comp changes...at least to some degree, if it does...in effect work completely how we hypothesize. I just don't know if it's worth it for the side effects many get with effective dosing; I certainly don't know if it's worth it in the long run.

    I attempted to use the quick-acting myself (Cycloset); but had far too many sides as I ramped up the dose. In 3 months, saw no body comp change from it...so I aborted the therapy.




    Can you give some insight for those who possibly are looking into dropping more body fat, consisten use of this anchillary, and potential/harmful effects of everyday use or spuratic use?

    Thanks
    Predominantly GI and autonomic.

    I was overtly nauseous; my blood pressure and blood sugar dropped low (SBP in the 90s; Blood sugar 40-50 mg/dl); I was very light-headed secondary to autonomic pressure versus blood sugar was unbeknownst to me.

    I would ultimately say ... skip it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    I have, unfortunately not been privy to McDonald's work outside of ketogenic variants ("The Ketogenic Diet" / "UD 2.0" / "Quick Fat Loss Handbook" or whatever the last one is called); but I am sure it's well written and thought-provoking. One might even say he was WAY AHEAD of his time; the quick-acting variant (Cycloset) was approved in the treatment of type 2 Diabetics after unequivocal data suggesting Bromocriptine improves glycemic control and glucose tolerance in obese type 2 diabetic patients. Both reductions in fasting and postprandial plasma glucose levels appear to contribute to the improvement in glucose tolerance. The bromocriptine-induced improvement in glycemic control is associated with enhanced maximally stimulated insulin-mediated glucose disposal. Keep in mind that despite all of this; body comp remained the same...so one must ask why they truly want to use it.

    Now, I am afraid that studies trying to illicit what exact mechanism is on hand have fallen short of task except in cases of obesity, namely those related to hyperprolactinemia. Bromocriptine is interesting in that there appears a transient increase in leptin in this scenario followed by a lowering of leptin (probably a result of lower BF); similarly, circadian levels of leptin actually FALL as well in obese subjects in response to prolactin.

    What does this mean? There's a positive response for dopamine agonism and it could prove very quintessential for those harboring low serum gonadotropins or high prolactin and subsequent low gonadotropins; but we cannot generalize to the "normal" population, although it is thought-provoking, it simply has NOT translated itself well to the real world. If body comp is impacted, and that's why I would anticipate you'd use it in the first place, then it's likely that you'd be lowering leptin secondary to body comp changes...at least to some degree, if it does...in effect work completely how we hypothesize. I just don't know if it's worth it for the side effects many get with effective dosing; I certainly don't know if it's worth it in the long run.

    I attempted to use the quick-acting myself (Cycloset); but had far too many sides as I ramped up the dose. In 3 months, saw no body comp change from it...so I aborted the therapy.






    Predominantly GI and autonomic.

    I was overtly nauseous; my blood pressure and blood sugar dropped low (SBP in the 90s; Blood sugar 40-50 mg/dl); I was very light-headed secondary to autonomic pressure versus blood sugar was unbeknownst to me.

    I would ultimately say ... skip it.


    D_
    Doc, McDonald describes in the mentioned book how injection of leptin failed to be effective (even tho' there's an addendum that states
    further experiments got better results etc..)

    So, is there ANY way to boost leptin/the action leptin has on metabolism (let's just say, avoiding the body from going into starvation-mode, slow metabolism and getting slower at burning fats *for someone with 5%BF*)?
    Aside from the refeed protocol (assuming that actually boosts leptin..)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    im seeing a trend of people using it however, L dopa may work the same if it acts on d2r. if not then i dont know.
    ?
    Rocha, did you experience exotic behavoir? like more risky, more addictive etc?

    another issue with things like dopamine agonist is the way it increases histamine receptors much like clen would, so an anti histamine may be in order to keep effectiveness.

    its actually funny studies show it decreases circadian leptin in obese individuals probably due to resistance, by possible allowing leptin to pass the BBB to reduce hunger and increase thermogenesis. but whats funny is Prolactin is needed in neogenesis of beta cells of the pancreas. now the issue is lower prolactin injections proverd to be more beneficial then higher prolactin levels. go figure.

    also prolactin INCREASES in pregnant women. Theres a bunch of information out there.

    Bromocriptin blocks somatostatin, so maybe pre bed is best bet to exert its effect.
    bumping the above for you doc as well as this below

    now with this said i would assume for dieting individuals, taking 2.5mf for 2 days every 4 or 5 days would work well in cycles of 2 weeks at a time, then the last cycle having a carb meal since messing with the dopaminegic system can be potentially harmful in terms of

    LH and testosterone, poor prolactin estrogen balance etc (Seth roberts book anabolic pharmacology) and in one of his threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Doc, McDonald describes in the mentioned book how injection of leptin failed to be effective (even tho' there's an addendum that states
    further experiments got better results etc..)

    So, is there ANY way to boost leptin/the action leptin has on metabolism (let's just say, avoiding the body from going into starvation-mode, slow metabolism and getting slower at burning fats *for someone with 5%BF*)?
    Aside from the refeed protocol (assuming that actually boosts leptin..)
    If I remember correctly, they injected obese people w/ leptin with failed results. They discovered that some obese people actually had abnormally high levels of leptin and administering additional leptin made no difference. This discovery showed that in some obese people the problem was not low leptin, but the body having no response to leptin leading to very high natural leptin levels.

    The other issue w/ leptin injection therapy was that it was some $10,000 for each day to run, at least at that time.
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