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Dhea

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    Dhea


    anyone supplementing dhea and if so at what dose and have you seen any results using it?

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    I have been debaitng using it in my PCT.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    I use it and have for many years (54 y/o now). I use 50 mg per day in the AM as an estimated replacement dose for predicted age-related declines.

    Results? Well, I do not use it with any results in mind - that is, not for gaining muscle or strength. I use it on an ongoing basis in the hopes of maintaining more normal (youthful) levels, for all of the effects on health and well-being that maintaining those levels might offer. So it is hard to say what the results are...I would be trying to define the absence of a negative as a positive when, quite frankly, whether the negative would happen is not at all clear.

    And I am not willing to stop for a period of time to see if or how things would be different.

    Sorry if that is not much help.
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    are you plan on taking it during an cycle?
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    thought i might try it as a standalone. being older(42) thought it might be a good thing to try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Shadows View Post
    I use it and have for many years (54 y/o now). I use 50 mg per day in the AM as an estimated replacement dose for predicted age-related declines.

    Results? Well, I do not use it with any results in mind - that is, not for gaining muscle or strength. I use it on an ongoing basis in the hopes of maintaining more normal (youthful) levels, for all of the effects on health and well-being that maintaining those levels might offer. So it is hard to say what the results are...I would be trying to define the absence of a negative as a positive when, quite frankly, whether the negative would happen is not at all clear.

    And I am not willing to stop for a period of time to see if or how things would be different.

    Sorry if that is not much help.
    Good feedback Jack.....It does help keep youthful hormone levels.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    I agree sometimes we use supps based on what we hope we know about decreasing levels. I use PGH with the same beliefs, however I do feel it does make a difference in maintaining lower body fat, but I digress.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Good feedback Jack.....It does help keep youthful hormone levels.
    How does one know if they have youthfull hormone levels?

    I'm 46 yrs old in very good shape, lots of muscle & could be bettter of course! Age seems to creep in slowly not noticing the gradual changes.

    Been considering DHEA for this reason and 6-0x0 for shedding unwanted bodyfad around my midsection which seems to have come about due to age since I eat very clean!

    Other than fat burning....what else is DHEA good for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post

    Other than fat burning....what else is DHEA good for?
    there are tons of good studies on dhea supplementation.

    as the most abundant sex hormone in the body it is important for in maintaining libido, insulin sensitivity, congnitve function, immune function, cognitive function and much more.

    it however does not increase t levels.
    and this is why it has a poor image in the bbing community.

    but if you are deficient or hypogonadal (or secondary hypogonadism induced by AAS) dhea supplementation is very benefitial.

    however too much dhea and it readily converts to estrogen.

    so i for this reason it seems best used by older farts (which i'm slowly becomming) or people recovering from an aas cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Shadows View Post
    I use it and have for many years (54 y/o now). I use 50 mg per day in the AM as an estimated replacement dose for predicted age-related declines.

    Results? Well, I do not use it with any results in mind - that is, not for gaining muscle or strength. I use it on an ongoing basis in the hopes of maintaining more normal (youthful) levels, for all of the effects on health and well-being that maintaining those levels might offer. So it is hard to say what the results are...I would be trying to define the absence of a negative as a positive when, quite frankly, whether the negative would happen is not at all clear.

    And I am not willing to stop for a period of time to see if or how things would be different.

    Sorry if that is not much help.
    That sounds very much like something I would say at your age under the same circumstances, you must have a lot of patience
    for those who don't go over your words slowly or with care.
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    I forget what is the recommended does during PCT 200 mg ed?
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    from the studies i've read a low dose (50mg/d) can be more than sufficient in boosting DHEA above naturally occurring levels.

    considering that young adult males usually produce no more than 20-25mg of DHEA per day........50mg/day can easily double blood DHEA levels within a few days.

    remember, the goal in using DHEA in post cycle therapy should be to reduce cortisol and improve libido. so a small dose should suffice.
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    Ok that would be a change in the school of thought from years ago I believe, I am sure I read 200 somewhere a few years ago.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    yeah, i remember seeing a lot of recommendations for 100-200/day.
    but we also used to think it could produce an anabolic effect at a higher doses - which just isn't true.

    dhea supplementation is introducing an exogenous hormone that will suppress natural production. and the goal of pct is to restore natural hormone production not suppress them.
    for this reason and the fact that excess can convert to estrogen at a time when estrogen is already high is the reasoning behind a much lower dose.
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    I remember about 6 yrs ago when I used to train in Karate is had a pad-work partner that was back then my age (46 yrs young) he happened to be the owner of avery large speaker manufacturing company. This guy had not fat whatsoever and tons of energy...he would mountain bike, ski, do Karate plus lots more I'm sure. Anyway, we always seemed to have the same strength when partnered up & doing the drills together and I was slowly noticing him getting stronger & stronger until it was getting to the point where His kicks & punches were knocking me off my feet! I asked him if he was taking anything & he confessed he was taking DHEA.

    Does DHEA increase your strength levels like that if it gives you youthfull hormone levels??
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    I think Dr. D is/was a proponent of using DHEA during pct
    something like 200,100,100,50 - weekly doseages - half upon waking and the other around noon or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by soma View Post
    I think Dr. D is/was a proponent of using DHEA during pct
    something like 200,100,100,50 - weekly doseages - half upon waking and the other around noon or so.

    So i guess it wouldnt be a bad idea to start it off at 100 mg and work your way down. dont want it to cause shutdown
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    Quote Originally Posted by soma View Post
    I think Dr. D is/was a proponent of using DHEA during pct
    something like 200,100,100,50 - weekly doseages - half upon waking and the other around noon or so.
    Dr D is a big advocator of DHEA use in pct.
    however i remember him getting rentless sh!t from other experts on his advice. they mainly bashed the fact that higher levels of DHEA readily converts to estrogen, and adding something that could increase estro levels is stupid to do during pct.

    however, if any of you follow Swale's advice here is what he had to say:
    If I remember right, Dr D has made a few mis-steps with his DHEA advice, such as calling it extremely androgenic (only 1/10th as much as testosterone). And he has used it at very high dosages--which would definitely increase estrogen. But he certainly is correct in including it in the every day supplementation for thos ewho are HPTA-suppressed. So I don't think he deserves any grief when he is on the right track.
    Swale is a big proponet of DHEA but recommends it at much lower doses for his patcients. for most he perscribes only 25mg DHEA twice per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    Dr D is a big advocator of DHEA use in pct.
    however i remember him getting rentless sh!t from other experts on his advice. they mainly bashed the fact that higher levels of DHEA readily converts to estrogen, and adding something that could increase estro levels is stupid to do during pct.

    however, if any of you follow Swale's advice here is what he had to say:


    Swale is a big proponet of DHEA but recommends it at much lower doses for his patcients. for most he perscribes only 25mg DHEA twice per day.

    Hank, Is Dermacrine the same as DHEA? I have read that some guys are using this in plase of DHEA and even during some cycles on off days, is this a good idea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato head View Post
    Hank, Is Dermacrine the same as DHEA? I have read that some guys are using this in plase of DHEA and even during some cycles on off days, is this a good idea?
    Dhea is like a 5th of the price though.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Dhea is like a 5th of the price though.

    One is oral and one is topical...is the topical better that popping more pills? I am just ready to start an eppi cycle and am wondering what to use on off days.

    I have both comming form NP now and want to use the best one for my first ever cycle. Im 41 btw
    Last edited by tomato head; 05-06-2008 at 11:25 AM. Reason: More info
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato head View Post
    One is oral and one is topical...is the topical better that popping more pills? I am just ready to start an eppi cycle and am wondering what to use on off days.
    ? It's not like dhea pills are toxic.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    ? It's not like dhea pills are toxic.

    ok good point. I didn't think of it that way. Can I take it on off days? and how much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato head View Post
    ok good point. I didn't think of it that way. Can I take it on off days? and how much?
    What exactly is the cycle you are running?
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    What exactly is the cycle you are running?
    Epistane 4 weeks 20/30/30/40 is from what I have read to be a good plan. your input is very welcome. I am still not sure what the best off day plan is however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato head View Post
    Epistane 4 weeks 20/30/30/40 is from what I have read to be a good plan. your input is very welcome. I am still not sure what the best off day plan is however.
    ? Is this a straight cycle or a pulse...off day?
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    ? Is this a straight cycle or a pulse...off day?

    I was going to do straight for this cycle. Again from what I have read its the better way to go first time?
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    I've been taking about 100mg a day while on Trenadrol and it has definetly helped with the libido. There wasn't a huge kill but I noticed a decrease. With the Dhea I'm ready and willing for 2 times a day again! TMI?
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    I apologize for being a newbie getting in on an advice thread, however I know a bit in this area as I have done advanced degrees in this area. Always listen to those with the experience as hormones sometimes seem to work in a counterintuitive manner. You may find combinations with other supplements which strengthen, weaken or even change the type of response a hormone supplement is, in theory, supposed to display. Some supplements of this type may also need an ancilliary (a common word used to describe drugs used with steroids to get a more powerful effect) chemical or supplement to get any benefits. So, in my opinion, and I stress as I am not a medical doctor so don't take my advice without consulting one, DHEA is one of those supplements which in absence of another supplement or drug will illicit a zero response when taken orally even at huge dosage levels. Of course DHEA is of the cholesterol based steroid family, I beleive of the top of my head an epiandrosterone. As such it will utilize the pathway that (an those in the supplement loop of 10 years ago will be familiar) androstenedione goes through to become testosterone. Androstenedionre is one enzymatic step closer to becoming testosterone than DHEA, since that is the only benefit to taking DHEA and you consider an enzymatic conversion ratio of 5% for andro, well you do the math. DHEA to andro conversion is less favourable thermodynamically to the andro test conversion so really what I am saying is save your money, you may as well eat spinach from a can.
    But, there is a positive side. When DHEA is not converted to andro is will become part of the estrogen family through a process called aromatization, so, it follows that if that didn't happen the DHEA would have only one direction to go. There are anti-aromatase enzyme drugs and supplements which are so effective that estrogen production in this way is essentially halted. Letrozole (trademarked Femara) is likely the most powerfull tool we have for combatting this effect we have today. Letrozole of course is prescription only. There are also very powerful supplements, for example 7oxoDHEA is excellent, ergo makes a product called 6-oxo, just google anti-aromatase. With the aid of one of these not only will you increase your DHEA-andro conversion rate you will also increase your testosterone/estradiol ration which in the grand scheme is what you want. Best of luck, listen to these experience guys they will know the products and will know which ones are quality because as you know im sure, you can have the same ingredient on two different labels and one product is great and the other you may as well flush. RESEARCH FIRST!
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    Cool using DHEA


    Quote Originally Posted by rugrat5288 View Post
    anyone supplementing dhea and if so at what dose and have you seen any results using it?
    i'm 40 years old and ive been using it going into my second week.the first 3 days i took 100 mgs.before bed,then i went up to 300mgs.My appetite has increased ,ive gained 2pounds.i weighed 188when i started now im 190.havent seen any increase in body fat.i take in 190-200grams of protien per day and around 70-80 grams of fat, the rest carbs.i take creatine complex(esther/ethyl)b4 i lift and ,whey mixed with creatine within the first 2 hours after workout.im about to lift on my second week so ill keep you posted on strength gains .go to AST sport science site. they have test results from a study conducted on 60-70 year old men-amazing!
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    I have read in many cases if your body is already converting testosterone to estradiol readily due to age taking Dhea will only produce more unless you are taking an AI. Have any of you found this to be the case?
    Do any of you take it during a cycle while pulsing? If so when?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth3x View Post
    I have read in many cases if your body is already converting testosterone to estradiol readily due to age taking Dhea will only produce more unless you are taking an AI. Have any of you found this to be the case?
    Do any of you take it during a cycle while pulsing? If so when?
    i havent taken it with a cycle yet,and idropped to 100 mgs. every other day, and 25mg in between to block cortisol.i havent seen any adverse effects. i did notice the first week i loaded up on 3oo mgs my muscles,especially arms were rock hard 3 days after working them.the reason i dropped my dose to 100mgs, is i read on a medical site that some people under age 60 on that dose had sides of balding.they may have heredity risks though too,i dont have any in my family.also 25mgs.in the a.m and 25mgs before bed is supposed to block cortisol when it is at its time of release(A.M and bedtime):chick:
  33. pcn
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    Adding DHEA to my PCT seemed to make a difference in the libido, energy, well being areas. I used one of Dr. D's recommendations, 100mg morning and 100mg at noon. Seems I read there was a conflict with taking it at night and it affecting sleep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcn View Post
    Adding DHEA to my PCT seemed to make a difference in the libido, energy, well being areas. I used one of Dr. D's recommendations, 100mg morning and 100mg at noon. Seems I read there was a conflict with taking it at night and it affecting sleep.
    i havent had any trouble sleeping through the night so far.:bruce2:
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    For anyone interested, here's quite a long discussion on Dr. D's PCT involving DHEA (200mg tapered to 100mg):
    Running Serm inverse to ADT??
  

  
 

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