Shoulder Injury and Questions

[djl]

This year I've been hitting the weights pretty hard, and pretty regularly. Unfortunately, a shoulder injury in boot camp in '92 was treated with "Suck it up and soldier on", and I'm 40(!).

So, end result is I'd hurt my shoulder 3 times this year. I took time off each time until I felt better, then eased back into weights.

Now I've hurt it for the 4th time and had an MRI. Has anyone here had any results like this?

IMPRESSION:

1. Partial tearing of supraspinatus and infraspinatus tendons involving roughly 50-75% undersurface thickness. No complete rotator cuff tear is present.

2. Probably intraarticular partial tearing of the long head biceps tendon.

3. Undermining of the labrum involving posterior, superior and anterior aspects.

4. Normal bulk to the shoulder musculature.

5. Mild acromioclavicular degenerative undersurface changes.

6. Type I, mildly laterally down sloped acromion.

7. Mild nonspecific marrow edema, anterior humerus.


No Hill-Sach's, reverse Hill-Sach's or osseous Bankart lesions are identified.

Of course the thought of surgery isn't a pleasant one. My question is, if you've had anything like this, how did you recover? Physical Therapy, self-recovery with tons of supps, surgery?

My ortho appointment's on January 8, and I'm currently not even touching a weight (though I'm tempted to do some light sets, I've made myself lay off the weights...).

Any insights of your own appreciated!

 

[bbuck]

Well I had my supraspinatus and infraspinatus tendons reattached after tearing them off the bone, they also fixed my ruptured bicep and cut some arthritis out too. So it sounds like much of what you wrote about. I was back in the gym 5 days after the surgery. Would have made it in sooner but the anti-nausea drugs they gave me made me nauseaous. I trained my legs as best i could as well as my good arm,chest and back. As there is evidence that you will keep nerve function in the other side and hence less atrophy. I did the rehab excersices every day and did stretches several times a day. all this is with my Dr. and therapists aproval. Pretty much my same diet hi protien and lots of sups. 10 weeks after the surgery the dr. gave me the go ahead to train as I saw fit as I was way ahead of the recovery curve. Started slow added more wieght as I saw fit and did nothing ballistic. 8 months post surgery my bench was at 95% of its all time best.

 

[djl]

bbuck, sounds like recovery shouldn't be too bad, since there's no 100% tear. Perhaps I won't even need surgery? I can only hope

Thanks for the post!

 

[dozer3]

djl, i'm 43 and i've had three major shoulder surgeries in the last four years on my right arm. i had a 300 degree tear of the labrum and cartiledge damage. i was told not to do anything for eight months. i started playing baseball again after about five months and started lifting after about seven months. i felt great but had a bad accident one year after the surgery and blew my shoulder apart. i had another surgery that was unsuccessful and then a third in which they inserted 12 pins. the last surgery was 2 years ago last week and i still can't lift anything over my head. i work out but go low weight higher reps. everyone is different and i don't know the extent of you injury but my advice is to wait until you're completely healed and don't rush it. go to a therapist that specializes in shoulders. i can't bench or do any press exercises but i have found enough to do to keep it interesting. keep us posted on how you make out..

 

[djl]

Hi dozer3, thanks for the post! Man, sorry to hear about your shoulder problems!

That's the thing about life, no matter how bad I think things are getting, there's ALWAYS someone else whose story makes yours look like a fairy tale.

I'm definitely all for taking as long a break as possible--for awhile there, I was thinking of doing some light weights. But then I came to my senses.

Take it easy; hope things get better for you!

 

[jmh80]

You might consider something like IGF and/or growth hormone (or a GH increaser) to help with your shoulder.
CEDeoudes59 has a thread on his remarkable rehab from an ACL tear while using IGF (and maybe straight GH - not sure).

Or - try something like Super Cissus.
I'd explore all supplement/drug options before surgery if it were me.

 

[djl]

Heh, when it comes to shoving a thin tube of metal into my shoulder joint, I'm probably the biggest p#$%y on the face of the planet Pinning's definitely not for me.

And even if it was for me, I have no idea how to find the stuff.

I'll definitely be lining up some supplements to help with healing. If surgery's recommended, I'm going for a couple of other opinions before I agree. I definitely consider it a last resort--hopefully the Ortho will feel the same!

You might consider something like IGF and/or growth hormone (or a GH increaser) to help with your shoulder.
CEDeoudes59 has a thread on his remarkable rehab from an ACL tear while using IGF (and maybe straight GH - not sure).

Or - try something like Super Cissus.
I'd explore all supplement/drug options before surgery if it were me.

 

[jmh80]

You inject into the muscle. Delts would be best - but you could do glutes or quads.


Good luck with this!

 

[firefighter2032]

If you don't like the idea of using a needle you can try Oratropin-1 from IBE.

I had a tear in my right arm tendon that caused me hell for 2 years. I'm finally back at the weights now.

I did all the doctor crap and had no relief. I did prolotherapy injections which brought me back to about 80%.

Then I was turned on to Oratropin-1 by IBE, PGH-t from universalkits and super cissus from Synergy.

I'm completely amazed.

I'll give you the same advise I got, avoid surgery at all costs.
A co-worker of mine had his worked on and he regrets it everyday. His quote "I wish I would have listened to you and tried everything else first"

Anyways...there's a whole thread on my arm if you would like to read...you can find it at:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/53121-hgh-torn-tendon.html

It's not the cheapest, but I couldn't be happier.

If you need any more info feel free to bump me.

 

[djl]

Some good reading on your thread, firefighter, thanks!

Man, from the prices on Oratropin and PGH-t, it REALLY is a shame that insurance won't cover it! Some pricey items!

How did you know you had a tear? Hopefully you didn't have to go through the misery of an arthrogram like I did!

If you don't like the idea of using a needle you can try Oratropin-1 from IBE.

I had a tear in my right arm tendon that caused me hell for 2 years. I'm finally back at the weights now.

I did all the doctor crap and had no relief. I did prolotherapy injections which brought me back to about 80%.

Then I was turned on to Oratropin-1 by IBE, PGH-t from universalkits and super cissus from Synergy.

I'm completely amazed.

I'll give you the same advise I got, avoid surgery at all costs.
A co-worker of mine had his worked on and he regrets it everyday. His quote "I wish I would have listened to you and tried everything else first"

Anyways...there's a whole thread on my arm if you would like to read...you can find it at:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/53121-hgh-torn-tendon.html

It's not the cheapest, but I couldn't be happier.

If you need any more info feel free to bump me.

 

[jmh80]

I totally forgot about Ora. Of all people.... :icon_lol:

 

[firefighter2032]

I had 2 MRI's which both came back confirming a tear.

One was done through my insurance, apparently it wasn't good enough so workman's comp wanted the test done again.

Good luck with your shoulder and let me know if I can be of any more help.

 

[djl]

I appreciate everyone's input!

My Ortho appointment is this coming Monday. Sucks that everything's on hold until at least then! This may be the year of cardio

I'm definitely interested in megadosing some bulk Cissus. Nutra mentioned about getting a higher % in bulk (soon?), so I'll cap some of that and take a couple of grams a day. Also the other joint formulas out there, too.

Oratropin is simply going to be too expensive for me to run, which is a shame, since it seems to hold a lot of promise!

PGHt has always looked interesting, and if you buy enough up front the cost isn't too bad on a monthly basis (of course, if it doesn't work for you, then your out more than one month of product!). I might have to give this a try...

 

[firefighter2032]

I've never had a better sleep then I had from the PGH-t well worth it just for that for me.

Ahh...the life of a third shifter.

But if you can find a way to get the Oratropin I'd highly recommend it. I know I wouldn't be where I am today without it.

 

[djl]

Back from Ortho

He was leaning towards non-surgery route--he said for one of the problems, that he normally recommends surgery to younger patients, but above 35 he says a lot of times they end up with range of motion issues long term.

He said without the surgery I'll probably never be able to go heavy on bench and militaries. That's ok, as I've never really wanted to be a power lifter anyway (though it is cool lifting heavy weight!).

So, time to schedule Physical Therapy.

And buy me some supps--lots of cissus, pght, and others!

Wish I could afford the Oratropin that was recommended, but it's unfortunately a little rich for my blood. If it worked, I'd be singing its praises to all who'd listen and it'd be well worth the price--but being unsure of how it'll work for me paired with the price simply makes it undoable.

Thanks for all of the good feedback, everyone!

 

[djl]

Quick addition-

My Ortho actually wrote an Rx for an Occupational Therapist instead of a Physical Therapist.

Does this make sense to anyone?

 

[firefighter2032]

Yep, they both do the same thing but and occupation therapist deals more with extremities. When I went and did my therapy I also saw an occupational therapist.

Good Luck

 

[djl]

1st PT Session Done

Kind of anticlimactic.

With my 50 to 70% RC tear, she said she was surprised doctor didn't push for surgery.

Then she asked a ton of questions--then she typed typed typed--then she measured my movement range (same for hurt shoulder as for unhurt for just about everything). Then she showed me three stretches.

Then, 10 minutes of ultrasound heating of the shoulder. Felt good at first, but since she kept moving it around, it got a little irritating for the last 3 minutes.

Basically, my range of movement is quite good before I start to notice pain, which surprised her. Maybe pain threshold is high? Dunno.

So, first session was all about learning my current capabilities and learning 3 stretches. Five more sessions (for a grand total of 6 sessions), and I'm done.

Doesn't seem like this is going to accomplish too much, since there's only 6 sessions...

Anyone here ever look into prolotherapy? Seems quackish, but there are two clinics near me that do it. They don't bill insurance, so I'd have to pay then submit (which will be a fight, knowing my company's cheap A$$ insurance).

 

[jmh80]

You might look at this new peptide, CJC 12something. Supposed to cause a pretty good increase in HGH and IGF levels.

I'm considering it for my bum right shoulder.

 

[firefighter2032]

After numerous rounds of physical therapy, NSAIDs, and cortisone shots I did the prolotherapy. Worked good for me. I took me from the point of literally not being able to squeeze a stapler to about 85%. I won't lie, it hurts like hell.

If you happen to be in the Michigan area I would highly recommend Dr. Scott in Grosse Pointe, great guy, and he's a bodybuilder so he can really relate.

The prolotherapy didn't take care of my whole injury but I made leaps and bounds of recovery from it.

Let me know if you have anymore questions on it

Good Luck

 

[firefighter2032]

Oh yeah, and I completely agree with jmh80, I think the CJC from IBE would definately be a good product to look into, and it's not as expensive as the Oratropin.

 

[djl]

Hi guys, thanks for the info.

I couldn't find any "CJC" product on Innovative Body Enhancement (IBE).

Is this a "coming soon" type of product?

 

[firefighter2032]

You have to go to their other website. I don't know how to direct you there w/o breaking the rules here. If you can, try getting to there forum that they have and they have the links on there.

If all else fails or if you have any other questions, feel free to email me at: [email protected]

 

[Werewolf]

CJC-1295 has to be injected. It is brand new and there is not a lot of experience with it. Even though it will raise IGF-1 levels, natural IGF-1 (10 minute half life) and IGF-1R3 (6 hour half life) are two different beasts when trying to heal an injury. I'm sorry, but what really need is Oratrophin (or injectable IGF-1R3), PGH-T(or other HGH booster) and Cissus.
Hopefully IBE will have sale soon. I have tried to get IBE to sell half kits because you are not the first to let the price stop you.

 

[Parteeman]

He was leaning towards non-surgery route--he said for one of the problems, that he normally recommends surgery to younger patients, but above 35 he says a lot of times they end up with range of motion issues long term.

He said without the surgery I'll probably never be able to go heavy on bench and militaries. That's ok, as I've never really wanted to be a power lifter anyway (though it is cool lifting heavy weight!).

So, time to schedule Physical Therapy.

And buy me some supps--lots of cissus, pght, and others!

Wish I could afford the Oratropin that was recommended, but it's unfortunately a little rich for my blood. If it worked, I'd be singing its praises to all who'd listen and it'd be well worth the price--but being unsure of how it'll work for me paired with the price simply makes it undoable.

Thanks for all of the good feedback, everyone!

I have a full thickness tear of my left suprisinatus with significant retraction. Surgery is the only option I have been given to repair it, and the doc says that I will never be able to do military presses ever again and will have a 6-month period of not touching weights. Although I have some pain and some loss of strength in that shoulder, I have opted against the surgery at least for now and instead have embarked upon a pretty serious cycle and a long, slow but steady return to heavy lifting. When I started about three months ago, I did not think I would ever be able to go heavy with the pain and crackling in my shoulder, which would de-stablize my heavier lifts and inhibit even my curls. Slow, high rep low weight lifting, concentrating on not flairing my shoulders out on bench and similar presses, finally gave way to new levels of strength in the surrounding muscles, and now has gotten to frankly an all-time high on every lift. It is not without pain, but the pain is less, the destablizing impact is significantly less, and now, I have been completely off cycle for over a month, and the gains keep on coming. Glucosamine, GH, watching how much anti-estrogens I take to prevent joint dryness, and a little deca has done the trick for me. So much so that at my age (mid-forties), I don't need to be stronger or more built than I am, and so I think have decided against the surgery altogether. Anyway, just wanted to provide an alternative and let you know that where there's a will, there's a way, even if you have irreversible shoulder damage that really can be only partially fixed with serious surgery and downtime.

 

[djl]

Thanks for the post, man! There's always hope!

I'm back to lifting again. Really light weight, going for very slow, controlled movements. Back day has no problems--never did before, either. On chest day, as long as I keep my shoulders pulled back, elbows towards my side, there's no pain.

I'm slowly making progress, but still a long way to go before I'm were I use to be. But that's ok. Slow and steady wins the race, right?

I have a full thickness tear of my left suprisinatus with significant retraction. Surgery is the only option I have been given to repair it, and the doc says that I will never be able to do military presses ever again and will have a 6-month period of not touching weights. Although I have some pain and some loss of strength in that shoulder, I have opted against the surgery at least for now and instead have embarked upon a pretty serious cycle and a long, slow but steady return to heavy lifting. When I started about three months ago, I did not think I would ever be able to go heavy with the pain and crackling in my shoulder, which would de-stablize my heavier lifts and inhibit even my curls. Slow, high rep low weight lifting, concentrating on not flairing my shoulders out on bench and similar presses, finally gave way to new levels of strength in the surrounding muscles, and now has gotten to frankly an all-time high on every lift. It is not without pain, but the pain is less, the destablizing impact is significantly less, and now, I have been completely off cycle for over a month, and the gains keep on coming. Glucosamine, GH, watching how much anti-estrogens I take to prevent joint dryness, and a little deca has done the trick for me. So much so that at my age (mid-forties), I don't need to be stronger or more built than I am, and so I think have decided against the surgery altogether. Anyway, just wanted to provide an alternative and let you know that where there's a will, there's a way, even if you have irreversible shoulder damage that really can be only partially fixed with serious surgery and downtime.

 

[bigrick345]

I'm recovering from 2 shoulder dislocations suffered about 6 weeks ago. I got my MRI w/ anthrogram today, and hopefully it turns out well. If i undergo surgery, i am considering looking into a combination of hexarelin and lr3 igf-1/Oratropin.

Best of luck to you

 

[djl]

I'm recovering from 2 shoulder dislocations suffered about 6 weeks ago. I got my MRI w/ anthrogram today, and hopefully it turns out well. If i undergo surgery, i am considering looking into a combination of hexarelin and lr3 igf-1/Oratropin.

Best of luck to you

How'd the athrogram treat you? For me it was just brutal. And after the injection, I had to drive 30 to 45 minutes to get to the MRI location

 

[bigrick345]

How'd the athrogram treat you? For me it was just brutal. And after the injection, I had to drive 30 to 45 minutes to get to the MRI location

The MRI and Athrogram were in the same lab, so it wasnt that bad, but i don't know how i could have driven because my shoulder was numb, and really sore the next day.