Has anyone out there ever had 0 to no effect for both AI's and SERMs for gyno?

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Hey guys. I recently just aborted my 4th cycle due to gyno symptoms that became out of control. The 4th week of my cycle (500mg sust, var, and masteron/wk) i began to get pain around the outside of both my nipples. I had arimidex on tamox on hand so i started 500mcg and 40mg a day respectively. After a few weeks with no improvement i switched to letrozole @ 2.5mg/day and upped the tamox to 60mg/day. Some days semmed a little less worse than others, but i had pain, burning, and itching almost everyday. This went on for 3 or 4 more weeks before i switched to exemestane and raloxifene. I have been on them now for approx 2 weeks, and my last test shot was 16 days ago, and altho the pain is much less i can still feel the taletell signs of the lumps growing..

Here's my question tho. I have used the products from 2 diff research companies now with little to no results. I might also add that while on letro and/or exemestane i have had 0 low e2 side effects (low libido, lethargy, depression, or erection problems), and trust me ive taken enough to DEF crash my e2 based on the countless threads ive read.. anyways i wanted to ask you bros that have more experience than i have...

Is it possible that my hormones are so unbalanced that the AI's and SERMs ive used were unable to lower my e2?

and/or

Does it sound like ive become the victim of just getting bunk products twice in a row?

Im in the process of getting bloods done now and waiting on some stane n ralox from MA, but i just wondered if any of you have had or heard of a similar experience?

Thanks n advance!
 

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Hey guys. I recently just aborted my 4th cycle due to gyno symptoms that became out of control. The 4th week of my cycle (500mg sust, var, and masteron/wk) i began to get pain around the outside of both my nipples. I had arimidex on tamox on hand so i started 500mcg and 40mg a day respectively. After a few weeks with no improvement i switched to letrozole @ 2.5mg/day and upped the tamox to 60mg/day. Some days semmed a little less worse than others, but i had pain, burning, and itching almost everyday. This went on for 3 or 4 more weeks before i switched to exemestane and raloxifene. I have been on them now for approx 2 weeks, and my last test shot was 16 days ago, and altho the pain is much less i can still feel the taletell signs of the lumps growing..

Here's my question tho. I have used the products from 2 diff research companies now with little to no results. I might also add that while on letro and/or exemestane i have had 0 low e2 side effects (low libido, lethargy, depression, or erection problems), and trust me ive taken enough to DEF crash my e2 based on the countless threads ive read.. anyways i wanted to ask you bros that have more experience than i have...

Is it possible that my hormones are so unbalanced that the AI's and SERMs ive used were unable to lower my e2?

and/or

Does it sound like ive become the victim of just getting bunk products twice in a row?

Im in the process of getting bloods done now and waiting on some stane n ralox from MA, but i just wondered if any of you have had or heard of a similar experience?

Thanks n advance!
I used some research chem ralox to no effect, and then ordered the same companies nolva and had it work within a couple days.

could be bunk, but without bloodwork kinda hard to say.

I guess I'm surprised that with as much stuff you've used that you haven't had at least SOME success....

have you had any bloodwork yet, or is this the first time?
 
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Itll be the first time. Planning on going tomorrow. So ill post as soon as i see.

N yea i thought it was crazy too that nothing has seemed to do anything at all. Not one single side or gyno pain change..

But an interesting side note.. for a day or 2 after every masteron shot the pain would almost all but disappear..

I know masteron has some AI properties, and used to be marketed under masteril as an AI for breast cancer years back if i remember correctly..

Thought it was strange how masteron could help immensely, but anything else i tried did nada.:/
 

CatSnake

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Itll be the first time. Planning on going tomorrow. So ill post as soon as i see.

N yea i thought it was crazy too that nothing has seemed to do anything at all. Not one single side or gyno pain change..

But an interesting side note.. for a day or 2 after every masteron shot the pain would almost all but disappear..

I know masteron has some AI properties, and used to be marketed under masteril as an AI for breast cancer years back if i remember correctly..

Thought it was strange how masteron could help immensely, but anything else i tried did nada.:/
well, that used to be the way old school BBers managed gyno on cycle. proviron and masteron.

maybe DHT just happens to be waayyy more effective for how your body works?

you're not taking dusteride or finasteride, are you?
 
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well, that used to be the way old school BBers managed gyno on cycle. proviron and masteron.

maybe DHT just happens to be waayyy more effective for how your body works?

you're not taking dusteride or finasteride, are you?
No sir

Guess i was just wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience with the AIs and/or SERMs.

Itd seem that my chems being bunk is the easiest answer (i hope!!!).. Im running out of options n really dont wanna have surgery if i can help it, but lumps on both sides have become quite a bit bigger:/
 

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No sir

Guess i was just wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience with the AIs and/or SERMs.

Itd seem that my chems being bunk is the easiest answer (i hope!!!).. Im running out of options n really dont wanna have surgery if i can help it, but lumps on both sides have become quite a bit bigger:/
look into Andractim. it's a DHT topical cream... I suspect with the way you respond to Masteron, if you applied this to your gyno you would see some really positive effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6354523

side note: since it is an androgen, it can cause HPTA suppression, so keep that in mind.... maybe a better tool for you on cycle vs off....




.
 
Montego1

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I get slight pain around the nipple on cycle no matter E2 range.

Come off and it goes away.

Just bad luck like myself I would guess.

Blood work will let you know though.
 
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I get slight pain around the nipple on cycle no matter E2 range.

Come off and it goes away.

Just bad luck like myself I would guess.

Blood work will let you know though.
AIs n SERMs dont seem to help while ur on?
 
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Ive used everything i know and yes they have not. Im thinking bunk or severely underdosed products. Waiting on an order from MA n gonna check bloods
 
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I start getting gyno on anything over 200mg/week of Test, most 19-Nor’s and rebound from just about anything. I’ve found overkill does help. So I’ll run Ralox and Letro/ Nolva and Letro. And Inhibit-P with 19-Nor’s. If it won’t subside I’ll add Prami. Some of us just are predisposed to gyno, it’s always able to be controlled if you throw everything at it..
 
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No. But only for this reason:
I don’t use Arginine AKG for a super hard dyck. I use Cialis.
I wouldn’t use some herbal remedy for potential gyno control when Ralox/Letro/Nolva exists.

Two important areas that I don’t take chances with.
 
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Likewise. I use rx Ralox/nolva/aromasin. Never really need to worry about it being legit.
 
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No. But only for this reason:
I don’t use Arginine AKG for a super hard dyck. I use Cialis.
I wouldn’t use some herbal remedy for potential gyno control when Ralox/Letro/Nolva exists.

Two important areas that I don’t take chances with.
I completely agree. Im only using it because absolutely everything ive tried hasnt worked
 
MrKleen73

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Seems more likely that you have managed to get 2 different bunk sources, which in all honestly is not that unlikely. I swear most of the chem companies start with legit stuff get you suckered in then start selling bunk crap... wait to lose business then reopen under a new name and repeat process...

MA stuff should be and remain good because he has his good name associated with it. Not just a fly by night research place trying to make a dime anonymously.

Premiere has also been legit for me.
 
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Seems more likely that you have managed to get 2 different bunk sources, which in all honestly is not that unlikely. I swear most of the chem companies start with legit stuff get you suckered in then start selling bunk crap... wait to lose business then reopen under a new name and repeat process...

MA stuff should be and remain good because he has his good name associated with it. Not just a fly by night research place trying to make a dime anonymously.

Premiere has also been legit for me.
Ive used stuff from enhanced before they went under. Then i got stuff from american research labs. Then i have gotten stuff from MA twice now. I think the stuff i have rn is legit (MA) because my bloods came back w my e2 tanked. But im beginning to think my gyno symptoms are from a different mechanism of action (other than prolactin and high e2). I was thinking liver damage could be the culprit (along with my hormones being outta whack from aborting my last cycle).

Turmeric is good for helping to heal and restore function to your liver. I been on it a week now (along with milk thistle and fish oil) and the pain is almost completely gone. Thats saying ALOT cuz i been hurting daily for months now.

Prolly gonna have to have surgery to remove the lumps altho they arent really even noticeable bc i carry some fat in my chest naturally but que sera sera no?

Hopefully what im running now over time will shrink it down tho
 
MrKleen73

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Ive used stuff from enhanced before they went under. Then i got stuff from american research labs. Then i have gotten stuff from MA twice now. I think the stuff i have rn is legit (MA) because my bloods came back w my e2 tanked. But im beginning to think my gyno symptoms are from a different mechanism of action (other than prolactin and high e2). I was thinking liver damage could be the culprit (along with my hormones being outta whack from aborting my last cycle).

Turmeric is good for helping to heal and restore function to your liver. I been on it a week now (along with milk thistle and fish oil) and the pain is almost completely gone. Thats saying ALOT cuz i been hurting daily for months now.

Prolly gonna have to have surgery to remove the lumps altho they arent really even noticeable bc i carry some fat in my chest naturally but que sera sera no?

Hopefully what im running now over time will shrink it down tho
It will shrink it down some over time but whatever breast tissue has developed is not going to go anywhere on it's own, and if you crashed your E to get it smaller then it will return when your e levels go back to normal. Unless you are maintaining a body weight that keeps you from carrying the fat in your lower chest I wouldn't worry about getting the surgery unless also getting lipo around the lower pecs.

I have the same issue where it is what is called combination Gyno/Psuedogyno. I have a very small bit of breast tissue there, very small. I have had it since I turned 12... Yay Double and Triple D's run in my family so guess who got estrogen sensitive fat under his pecs... THIS GUY!!!! However when I get really lean you can almost not even tell it is there.

If you look at my lower pecs in my avatar you can see how there is a slope coming down off the bottom of the outer pec instead of the defined lip that most guys get. When arms are down there is a bit of a pointy nipple hanging under the pec that isn't too noticeable unless I flex and then you can tell what is fat and what is muscle. Yet when really lean it is all almost unnoticeable. So if you plan to get surgery you might want to plan for lipo, and possibly only lipo, if it is more or less mostly estrogen sensitive fat.

Just some things to consider.

What does your diet look like? You aren't living off of tofu or something else that has a lot of xeno-estrogens like soy or whatever right? If so that can definitely have an effect even when your natty estro levels are lower. YOu might try to avoid any foods high in xeno-estrogens.
 
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Yea i kinda wish i had never started cycling to begin with now lol.

The tissue that has formed is also on the lateral (outer) sides of my nipples. Cant tell anything unless i flex like you, then u can see.

Honestly i can live with this just because its not noticeable especially to an untrained eye, but like i said hopefully the meds im on will help reduce it some more.

I am on a ketogenic diet and in a calorie deficit. Also started doing cardio after my lifts. Fat has really melted off since i started and altgo ive def lost some muscle, overall i think i like a leaner look. Been beefed up for years so a change is cool.

I have never heard of a xeno estrogen. Can you enlighten me??
 
MrKleen73

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Yea i kinda wish i had never started cycling to begin with now lol.

The tissue that has formed is also on the lateral (outer) sides of my nipples. Cant tell anything unless i flex like you, then u can see.

Honestly i can live with this just because its not noticeable especially to an untrained eye, but like i said hopefully the meds im on will help reduce it some more.

I am on a ketogenic diet and in a calorie deficit. Also started doing cardio after my lifts. Fat has really melted off since i started and altgo ive def lost some muscle, overall i think i like a leaner look. Been beefed up for years so a change is cool.

I have never heard of a xeno estrogen. Can you enlighten me??


They are foreign estrogenic compounds found in vegetation, plastics we use, non stick coatings on cookware, all kinds of things. They are similar enough to actual estrogen to bind to the receptor and express their estrogenic characteristics. An AI can not help in that respect because there is no conversion to stop, the food has the xeno estrogens in them.

Here is an article you can refer to for more info on that. Now this is from a womans hormone site but the information is still good.
This information has been quoted from this site. https://cycleharmony.com/remedies/hormone-imbalance/top-10-xenoestrogens-the-primary-cause-of-estrogen-dominance

"You are here: Home / Hormone Imbalance / Top 10 Xenoestrogens, the Primary Cause of Estrogen Dominance
Top 10 Xenoestrogens, the Primary Cause of Estrogen Dominance
Last updated on March 28, 2018 By Jing J. 2 Comments

Xenoestrogens mimic the functions of our natural estrogens. They can interrupt our hormone balance, producing symptoms such as PMS, heavy periods, mood swings, PCOS, fibroids, etc. Read on to learn the top 10 sources of xenoestrogens to avoid.

top 10 xenoestrogens
As I’ve shared in previous posts, estrogen dominance is one of the most common causes of menstrual disharmonies such as PMS, mood swings, painful periods, breast tenderness, weight gain, bloating, headaches, insomnia, fibroids, polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), ovarian cysts, and irregular menstrual bleeding.

And there is a reason why we now have an epidemic of hormone imbalance in the so-called more developed, advanced and industrialized nations.

It’s because many of the factors that lead to estrogen dominance are in the foods we eat, the shampoos we use, the water we drink, and the air we breathe.

Xenoestrogens Interrupt Our Natural Hormone Balance
These factors are called xenoestrogens, foreign estrogens that mimic the functions of our natural estrogens. When they enter our body, they attach themselves to our cells’ receptors, taking over the natural estrogens’ functions to control growth and development.

As you know, estrogens promote tissue growth and development, which give you lovely breasts, supple skin, and the ability to conceive and create a new life.

Too much estrogen in the body, however, can promote unnatural growth such as fibroids, cysts, tumors and weight gain. It also interrupts the balance of the entire endocrine system.

Top 10 Sources of Xenoestrogens
So to prevent estrogen dominance and to rebalance the delicate endocrine system, it’s important to know which products we use in our daily lives contain the highest levels of xenoestrogens, in order to avoid them as much as possible.

Here’s a list of 10 major sources of xenoestrogens:

1. Commercially-raised meat and diary products
such as beef, pork, chicken, milk, butter, cheese and ice cream.

These products are contaminated with bovine growth hormones and expose us to a significant amount of xenoestrogens.

How to counter it?

Cut down your consumption of commercial meat and diary, and consume hormone-free, grass-fed, and humanely raised animal products whenever you can.

2. Anything that contains insecticide or pesticide residues
This includes everything we eat, from grains, fruits, nuts and legumes, to veggies.

So eat local organic foods whenever possible.

3. Tap water
Unfortunately much of our water source is contaminated with petroleum derivatives – the primary source of xenoestrogens.

So drink filtered water whenever possible.

4. Paraben
Shampoos, lotions, soaps, toothpastes, cosmetics and other personal care products that contain paraben or phenoxyethanol chemical compounds widely used by cosmetic and pharmaceutical industries as preservatives.

Note that xenoestrogens entering the skin go directly to tissue without passing through the liver for detoxification. So they’re 100% absorbed by the body and can be 10 times more potent than those consumed orally.

5. Phthalates
Soft plastics used as packaging materials are often treated with chemical compounds called phthalates, a xenoestrogen, to increase its flexibility.

Plastic wrapped foods, heated in the microwave, contain some of the highest xenoestrogen levels.

So do not heat food or water with plastic in the microwave. Avoid drinking coffee or other hot liquids in Styrofoam cups. And store your food in glass containers whenever possible!

6. Artificial food additives
including artificial sweeteners and MSG

According to a study published in the journal, Chemical Research in Toxicology, 31 substances added to food for the purpose of preservation, coloring, texture and flavor have potential estrogenic effects.

Propyl gallate and 4-hexylresorcinol are two additives to be especially watchful for. Also avoid canned foods, which are usually lined with a plastic coating that contains bisphenol-A (BPA), a xenoestrogen.

Since most processed foods contain some kind of undesirable material, either in the packaging itself or the ingredients, it’s a good policy to cut back on processed and packaged foods. Buy bulk and buy local whenever possible.

7. Foods that contain soy protein and soy protein isolate
These foods are packed with condensed, unnaturally high amounts of plant estrogen, which can also lead to estrogen dominance.

Eat organic soybeans, edamame, tofu or tempeh instead.

8. Dryer sheets
Dryer sheets are loaded with xenoestrogens to make your clothes feel soft and fresh. These residual xenoestrogens can permeate your skin and go directly into your cells.

So avoid dryer sheets. Use a natural liquid fabric softener or ½ cup of baking soda in the rinse cycle instead.

9. Birth control pills and conventional hormone replacement therapy (HRT)
HRT contains synthetic hormones that can interrupt our natural hormone balance.

There are natural, effective birth control alternatives without the side effects of the pills. Check out 10 birth control options without birth control pills.

For ladies who use birth control pills as a way to regulate their periods, I can tell you that this is not a viable long-term solution, and it often does not address the underlying root causes of the imbalance.

I encourage you to look into your lifestyle, identify potential areas of imbalance, and correct them by creating healthier habits. If you need some support, start with my Free Period Guide.

10. Disposable menstrual products
In conventional tampons, the FDA has detected dioxins, a class of chemical contaminants that may increase the risk of cancer, reproductive and developmental problems, heart disease and diabetes.

Avoid tampons and sanitary napkins that contain chlorine, fragrance, wax, surfactants, rayon, etc.

Use those made of organic cotton or other natural materials instead. It’ll save you money over the long run, protect your health, and it’s good for the environment as well. Consider using Bamboo Mama Cloth Reusable Menstrual Pads or Diva Cup Reusable Menstrual Cup instead.

So far I’ve shared a lot of information about the potential sources of xenoestrogens and why you should avoid them. That said, it’s not my intention to instill fear and make you live in a state of paranoia.

It’s a sad fact that we’re now living in a contaminated world and we can’t avoid or eliminate all of the pollutants in our environment.

What we can do, though, is be aware of them, and try our best to live a simple and natural life. And when we do, our body will heal itself, and our endocrine system will regain its natural balance and harmony.

I hope you find the article helpful. Do you know of any xenoestrogens that I failed to mention?"
 
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Wow. Dryer sheets? Thas cray cray bro..

Ill def start lookin out for those things and start sgelling out the extra $ for the organic stuff :/

Thanks for your help bro
 

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