HCG

  1. HCG


    For those that are TRT and taking hcg what dose of test and hcg do you take and how frequently do you inject each? I have the protocol from my doctor I'm just curious as to what others are using. The current protocol I'm on doesn't really seem to be working and looking to adjust it.


  2. Some info for thought. Small multiple doses is the way to go. Too much at once will also create a refractory period and the testes won't respond for about 96 hours.

    Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW. Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Feb;58(2):327-31.

    This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 0.2 (SEM) x the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 0.1 x baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 0.2 x baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 0.2 x baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 0.1 x baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 0.6 x baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 0.3 x baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 0.2 x baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 360 vs. 1647 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/ T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6 0.1 x baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCGinduced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P < 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P< 0.02). Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis, probably by preventing the early accumulation of E2 and thereby the steroidogenic enzyme suppression which occurs after massive doses of hCG.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by bad rad View Post
    Some info for thought. Small multiple doses is the way to go. Too much at once will also create a refractory period and the testes won't respond for about 96 hours.

    Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW. Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Feb;58(2):327-31.

    This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 0.2 (SEM) x the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 0.1 x baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 0.2 x baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 0.2 x baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 0.1 x baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 0.6 x baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 0.3 x baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 0.2 x baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 360 vs. 1647 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/ T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6 0.1 x baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCGinduced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P < 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P< 0.02). Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis, probably by preventing the early accumulation of E2 and thereby the steroidogenic enzyme suppression which occurs after massive doses of hCG.
    Awesome thanks for the information. I was doing 250iu 3 days a week per my doctor. Do you think doing a little over 100iu would be beneficial or is the amount to low per pin?

  4. Very well written summary of HCG, with dosages here:
    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...By-Gene-Devine
    May I suggest using this app to track your bloodwork tests:
    myBloodTracker for IPhone and IPad
    https://appsto.re/us/vvMndb.i

  5. Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Very well written summary of HCG, with dosages here:
    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...By-Gene-Devine
    Appreciate it man! Just read through it. Some good information there. I had a question everywhere I read it says hcg helps with testicular size but I haven't noticed any size or fullness since starting. Should I try to get my dosage moved up? I've also read where guys coming off AAS doing 500iu for like 10 days in a row, then I could go back down to a normal dose.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Burnfire View Post
    Appreciate it man! Just read through it. Some good information there. I had a question everywhere I read it says hcg helps with testicular size but I haven't noticed any size or fullness since starting. Should I try to get my dosage moved up? I've also read where guys coming off AAS doing 500iu for like 10 days in a row, then I could go back down to a normal dose.
    From personal experience it can take a month to see a restoration in size if I have been without hCG for a long time. I would stick to normal, lower dosing and let the body catch up since too much hCG only brings additional side effects.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bad rad View Post
    From personal experience it can take a month to see a restoration in size if I have been without hCG for a long time. I would stick to normal, lower dosing and let the body catch up since too much hCG only brings additional side effects.
    I got put on hcg in February and have had the same dose the whole time and no real change in size.

  8. Mine have never regained full size when my HPTA worked correctly but there is still a noticeable increase from hCG. Some guys just don't respond well if their TRT dose is too high. I get better results in size when I stay at the low end of dosing.

    You could try 500iu twice weekly but if you are primary, ie your testes are "broken", then hCG will not do much for you.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.

  9. Ok appreciate it. What makes some a primary and a secondary?

  10. Abnormalities can result from disease of the testes (primary hypogonadism) or disease of the pituitary or hypothalamus (secondary hypogonadism). ... Secondary hypogonadism is usually associated with similar decreases in sperm and testosterone production.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by bad rad View Post
    Abnormalities can result from disease of the testes (primary hypogonadism) or disease of the pituitary or hypothalamus (secondary hypogonadism). ... Secondary hypogonadism is usually associated with similar decreases in sperm and testosterone production.
    How would a doctor be able to know which you are?

  12. It requires blood test and deductive reasoning. If LH/FSH are high and Test levels are low it points to being primary. If everything is low it's typically secondary. Most men are secondary.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.
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