Do my test readings make me a candidate for TRT?

[JoePaul39]

I am a 40 year old male. I had my total and free testosterone readings taken this year as part of my annual physical. My total testosterone came back at 406ng/dl. The test said the standard range was between 280-1000, however my free testosterone rating came back low at an 8.3pg/ml with the standard range being 8.7-55. Do these ranges qualify me for TRT? Are there any anti aging clinics that would prescribe with ranges like this?

 

[kenpoengineer]

The answer is maybe. Based on your past posts, you used various anabolics and may not have recovered completely. You need full bloodwork. Here is a good guide to what you need:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?5040-Blood-Tests-Needed-Before-and-During-Testosterone-Replacement-Therapy

 

[JoePaul39]

Thanks. I will read up. The readings were taken about 5 months after PCT.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Thanks. I will read up. The readings were taken about 5 months after PCT.

Great decision. I’m just trying to protect you from a lifetime of injections, supplements and tons of labs/ blood donations. If you really determine you need TRT then I’ll put you in contact with Entourage Medical.

 

[JoePaul39]

Im not prepared to take that step at this point. Thanks.

 

[JoePaul39]

Great decision. I’m just trying to protect you from a lifetime of injections, supplements and tons of labs/ blood donations. If you really determine you need TRT then I’ll put you in contact with Entourage Medical.

In your opinion, are my readings even that low to create a medical reason for treatment? The total test was in normal range and the free was just below what is considered normal. My primary care physician didn't contact me stating anything about it after the bloodwork came back.

 

[John Smeton]

Most Endos will tell you yur in good range as many look at total test

 

[JoePaul39]

Most Endos will tell you yur in good range as many look at total test

But isn't free test what is important for muscle building?

 

[kenpoengineer]

But isn't free test what is important for muscle building?

Yes, free testosterone is the more important of the two. But, in your case, your HPTA is still recovering from the anabolics you’ve run. If anything, a doctor should try a HPTA Restart Protocol first.

 

[TheBigJS]

But isn't free test what is important for muscle building?

Whether it is or not is not relevent from your docs point of view. You're 40 y/o, your testosterone is in range. No real endocrinologist is going to put you on TRT, someone might try Proviron if you're having ED issues or anxiety attacks, they aren't going to prescribe 250mg Sust PW to let you chuck on some lean muscle easily. Or if they do it's only 'cause you're paying them for it!

What you're really doing is asking for permission to jump on a cycle so light you can just stay on. And there's nothing wrong (although there may be something illegal if you live in the land of the free and home of the brave!) with that, just be clear on why you're doing it!

 

[JoePaul39]

Whether it is or not is not relevent from your docs point of view. You're 40 y/o, your testosterone is in range. No real endocrinologist is going to put you on TRT, someone might try Proviron if you're having ED issues or anxiety attacks, they aren't going to prescribe 250mg Sust PW to let you chuck on some lean muscle easily. Or if they do it's only 'cause you're paying them for it!

What you're really doing is asking for permission to jump on a cycle so light you can just stay on. And there's nothing wrong (although there may be something illegal if you live in the land of the free and home of the brave!) with that, just be clear on why you're doing it!

My free test is below normal range. Only my total test is in range. Yes, I would like to go on it to build muscle, but if a doctor determines because of my low levels of free test I am a candidate, then there is nothing illegal about that.

 

[scherbs]

My free test is below normal range. Only my total test is in range. Yes, I would like to go on it to build muscle, but if a doctor determines because of my low levels of free test I am a candidate, then there is nothing illegal about that.

I believe the point is that, with your levels, there are likely no doctors who would find it medically necessary to treat you with TRT.
The only way you get this to happen is through a doctor who determines “necessity” through the size of your discretionary income

 

[JoePaul39]

I believe the point is that, with your levels, there are likely no doctors who would find it medically necessary to treat you with TRT.
The only way you get this to happen is through a doctor who determines “necessity” through the size of your discretionary income

Your probably right lol. I just don’t understand why the doctors only seem to take into account total test and not free test. If they are only going by total test to make a decision why even test free test? Also, if I have normal total test readings what good is that since my free test is low which basically means a very high percentage of my total test is rendered useless because it is not free!

 

[JoePaul39]

IMO they should also develop a standard range for total test by age. Around 400 is considered normal, but most 40 year old males probably average around 600. The elderly people being included in the determination bring down what is considered a “normal” reading.

 

[Mountain Man]

You are in range for total testosterone, and your pcp didn’t give you a call because you are “in range.” Most of them don’t care about, or even understand, the whole free testosterone thing. If you ask about the muscle building impact of free test, you may be labeled as a guy looking for a PED, and most doctors will consider you a problem. I went through a similar dilemma in my 50s with doctors and waited until I was in my 60s. At 62,I got on TRT with total testosterone of 440 by explaining to my doctor that I was afraid of sarcopenia, poor balance, falling, ED, and low energy. He reluctantly gave me a referral to Dr. Abraham Morgantaler’s clinic in Boston, and I have been doing great with testosterone replacement for 2 years.

If I were you, I’d get my diet and workouts dialed in first. File this idea away until you are older and flip this card later.

 

[Mountain Man]

IMO they should also develop a standard range for total test by age. Around 400 is considered normal, but most 40 year old males probably average around 600. The elderly people being included in the determination bring down what is considered a “normal” reading.

And don’t forget that there is an epidemic of low testosterone in the developed world with young guys now. The average guy in WWII had testosterone levels that were twice what young men have today. There are environmental reasons for this, but also the easy lifestyle of kids today, diet, body fat, and a lot of factors make the average lower. Today’s average is sub-optimal and “in range” tells you nothing of anything relevant.

 

[JoePaul39]

And don’t forget that there is an epidemic of low testosterone in the developed world with young guys now. The average guy in WWII had testosterone levels that were twice what young men have today. There are environmental reasons for this, but also the easy lifestyle of kids today, diet, body fat, and a lot of factors make the average lower. Today’s average is sub-optimal and “in range” tells you nothing of anything relevant.

Thanks for your reply and input. I may have stumbled into some luck. Contacted a place called grandview primary care in Columbus, Ohio. They said based on my low free test readings, near borderline low total test reading, and symptoms I would be a candidate! I am definitely going to follow up.

 

[Mountain Man]

Thanks for your reply and input. I may have stumbled into some luck. Contacted a place called grandview primary care in Columbus, Ohio. They said based on my low free test readings, near borderline low total test reading, and symptoms I would be a candidate! I am definitely going to follow up.

Go in with a lack of sleep for a few days prior and workout hard the day of bloodwork. Your test levels will bottom out for sure. If you are going to a legit clinic, don’t worry, they will give you something, test gel, test injections, HCG or an AI. Just be sure you follow their protocols until you get things dialed in.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Thanks for your reply and input. I may have stumbled into some luck. Contacted a place called grandview primary care in Columbus, Ohio. They said based on my low free test readings, near borderline low total test reading, and symptoms I would be a candidate! I am definitely going to follow up.

Congratulations. For comparison, Entourage Medical provides access anytime to doctor, 5 ml testosterone cypionate, 4 mg anastrozole, 1000 IU HCG, syringes/alcohol wipes per month for $119 plus $20 shipping.

 

[TheBigJS]

Thanks for your reply and input. I may have stumbled into some luck. Contacted a place called grandview primary care in Columbus, Ohio. They said based on my low free test readings, near borderline low total test reading, and symptoms I would be a candidate! I am definitely going to follow up.

You're in the US, you don't need luck, you need money, see below.

Congratulations. For comparison, Entourage Medical provides access anytime to doctor, 5 ml testosterone cypionate, 4 mg anastrozole, 1000 IU HCG, syringes/alcohol wipes per month for $119 plus $20 shipping.

285mg+ test per week
HCG keepiing your own production working
An AI

That is not TRT

 

[JoePaul39]

285mg+ test per weeki
HCG keepiing your own production working
An AI

That is not TRT

Does typical trt not provide that amount of test and automatically come with hcg and an ai? Hcg can prevent shutdown of your own test while on trt?

 

[kenpoengineer]

Does typical trt not provide that amount of test and automatically come with hcg and an ai? Hcg can prevent shutdown of your own test while on trt?

Every man is different. Most start with 100 to 150 mg per week split into an injection every 3.5 days. HCG is used for maintaining LH to keep your testicles at normal size, maintain sperm production and correct pregnenolone deficiency.

 

[JoePaul39]

Every man is different. Most start with 100 to 150 mg per week split into an injection every 3.5 days. HCG is used for maintaining LH to keep your testicles at normal size, maintain sperm production and correct pregnenolone deficiency.

Will hcg also keep test levels higher by keeping natural production of test ongoing? I emailed the dr I found to see if he automatically prescriber hcg with the therapy.

I bet some guys stock pile the left over test they get in the mail to run high dosed cycles if they aren’t using all that was sent to them each week!

As far as an ai goes, seems some drs only feel it should be given as needed based on estrogen blood work results, what are your thoughts.

 

[kenpoengineer]

I suggest research and more research.

Good guides to TRT:

https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?5040-Blood-Tests-Needed-Before-and-During-Testosterone-Replacement-Therapy

https://www.excelmale.com/content.php?317-ExcelMale-com-Guide-to-Testosterone-Replacement

 

[JoePaul39]

Go in with a lack of sleep for a few days prior and workout hard the day of bloodwork. Your test levels will bottom out for sure. If you are going to a legit clinic, don’t worry, they will give you something, test gel, test injections, HCG or an AI. Just be sure you follow their protocols until you get things dialed in.

Is the general consensus injections are superior for building muscles over creams?

 

[Mountain Man]

Is the general consensus injections are superior for building muscles over creams?

Never been on creams, but I hear, anecdotally, that they aren’t as effective, are messy and inconsistent. A lot of guys don’t want to pin, but it’s not a big deal. I pin 120 mg of testosterone cypionate on Wednesday evenings. I notice no low point or feelings at the trough, as cypionate has a 14-16 day half life. If my bloodwork gets close to out of line I may split to twice weekly.

 

[sammpedd88]

Never been on creams, but I hear, anecdotally, that they aren’t as effective, are messy and inconsistent. A lot of guys don’t want to pin, but it’s not a big deal. I pin 120 mg of testosterone cypionate on Wednesday evenings. I notice no low point or feelings at the trough, as cypionate has a 14-16 day half life. If my bloodwork gets close to out of line I may split to twice weekly.

Half life of test cyp is 6-8 days.

 

[Mountain Man]

Half life of test cyp is 6-8 days.

You are correct. Thanks. I pin every 7days so I don’t get any noticeable dip in how I feel.

 

[sammpedd88]

You are correct. Thanks. I pin every 7days so I don’t get any noticeable dip in how I feel.

I was pinning 120mgs a week, split in two doses for about three years. I ended up going down to 100 mgs a year ago. I’ve also cut my AI dose down as well. It’s funny how they body can change how it reacts to something.