Improving running: Steady state or walk/run?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    Thanks, All. Great ideas.

    My goal is to improve but I never intend to be an actual competetor and I have no interest in building to a 10k.

    I just want to get in reasonable condition. I just turned 56 and my body rebells a lot. For the past year, or so, every time I start running again, I pull something. It's frustrating and I have to fight the impulse to give up on running altogether.

    My daughter's work has a charity 5K every year and that's what I was hoping to build up to, but my calf has got me limping again and the run in on 10/6, so I think I'm going to sit this one out.
    No way i would do a 5 k or 10 k. I do it for health, and keeping my waist tight. Love getting my heart rate up to 165 for a short time and huffing untill I catch my breathe then go at it again.
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
    Classic Physique competitor, Facebook- Great Physique Fitness, Online coaching


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    Thanks, All. Great ideas.

    My goal is to improve but I never intend to be an actual competetor and I have no interest in building to a 10k.

    I just want to get in reasonable condition. I just turned 56 and my body rebells a lot. For the past year, or so, every time I start running again, I pull something. It's frustrating and I have to fight the impulse to give up on running altogether.

    My daughter's work has a charity 5K every year and that's what I was hoping to build up to, but my calf has got me limping again and the run in on 10/6, so I think I'm going to sit this one out.
    No way i would do a 5 k or 10 k. I do it for health, and keeping my waist tight. Love getting my heart rate up to 165 for a short time and huffing untill I catch my breathe then go at it again.

    forgot to mention no way would I run all out. I do mine on the elliptical
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
    Classic Physique competitor, Facebook- Great Physique Fitness, Online coaching
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    The reason i like to do interval myself is because somedays im more tired like yesterday instead of doing 2 minutes 50% and 1 minute hard I went 1:30 seconds 50% and 30 seconds just about all out then repeat. After 15-20 minutes of this I was spent and just wanted to do some steady state walking
    Sounds good to me.

    I'm sort of the opposite - any excuse to avoid high-intensity and I'll take it. But, like leg day, it works so I force myself.

    Eventually, you reach a point where there's no substitute for actually getting distance in. But you're really talking quite decent distances by then and I'd expect people to have found their personal preferences by that point.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    I have no interest in building to a 10k.
    You might surprise yourself.

    Getting your 5K time down will be an achievement, absolutely, but I bet you'll then start to realise "Hey, if I can do 5K, I can do 10K". It can be addictive. On the other hand, some people just hate it... and I can't blame them really. Hahah.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Eight View Post
    Sounds good to me.

    I'm sort of the opposite - any excuse to avoid high-intensity and I'll take it. But, like leg day, it works so I force myself.

    Eventually, you reach a point where there's no substitute for actually getting distance in. But you're really talking quite decent distances by then and I'd expect people to have found their personal preferences by that point.
    I live right on the strip in my city and walk to stores from my house when I want to get in more steady state. I do this whenever im going to the store and want to burn extra calories, its a no brainer. That said, I used to be scared, or think any high intensity cardio would burn my muscle off, but not anymore with interval cardio and just love getting that breathing, sweating and heart rate up.
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
    Classic Physique competitor, Facebook- Great Physique Fitness, Online coaching
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by brutus1 View Post
    Interval cardio works well up to a point. The main limitation is that its hard on the body and it will take some time to recover.
    The base of endurance training is slow steady state running which has some important benefits as well. Not having a decent endurance base will limit the speed of recovery from interval cardio.
    Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by sammpedd88 View Post
    Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.
    if done too hard for too long my cns seems to wear out faster aka burnt out, like going though true hit training with weight. That said, if you feel your body out that day via instinctive training ,you'll be fine
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
    Classic Physique competitor, Facebook- Great Physique Fitness, Online coaching

  8. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    if done too hard for too long my cns seems to wear out faster aka burnt out, like going though true hit training with weight. That said, if you feel your body out that day via instinctive training ,you'll be fine
    That's exactly what I said, so I agree with you.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by sammpedd88 View Post
    Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.
    Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

    To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by brutus1 View Post
    Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

    To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.
    Yes, if interval training is "easy" it's not real interval training, but I guess that's why ppl do it rather than run long distance, because they can cheat on their "intervals", you can't cheat long distance running because when you run long distance you have to get back!

    To OP, if you want to be a better runner just have to do it more, it's no way around it.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by brutus1 View Post
    Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

    To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.
    I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.
    Yes and no-For running purposes, running at "Interval Pace" for short durations is pretty close to HIIT.
    If you are talking about what is essentially a broken jog, that will still work, but be far less effective

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.
    Interval training should be HIT other wise it's just slow pace and a litter higher pace jogging.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post

    To OP, if you want to be a better runner just have to do it more, it's no way around it.
    I appreciate your effort but that's a ludicrous statement.

    It would be has helpful as saying, "If you want to get stronger, you have to lift more."

    My question was about technique, so just saying "more" isn't really what I was looking for.

    But thanks for playing!
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post
    Interval training should be HIT other wise it's just slow pace and a litter higher pace jogging.
    And that's still called interval training -- and something beginners and old fat guys like me can still benefit from.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post
    Yes and no-For running purposes, running at "Interval Pace" for short durations is pretty close to HIIT.
    If you are talking about what is essentially a broken jog, that will still work, but be far less effective
    The tens of thousands of downloads and 5 star reviews of the various programs that help you go from couch/beginner to running a 5K would suggest the slow interval with progressive increases in speed and/or distance is actually quite effective.
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
    Follow my Fat Loss Log For My Final 20 Pounds...
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    I appreciate your effort but that's a ludicrous statement.

    It would be has helpful as saying, "If you want to get stronger, you have to lift more."

    My question was about technique, so just saying "more" isn't really what I was looking for.

    But thanks for playing!
    It's true though, it's no shortcuts unfortunately, if you want to get stronger you have to lift more and if you want to be better at running you have to run, it's no way around it.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    And that's still called interval training -- and something beginners and old fat guys like me can still benefit from.
    Even if you old and fat you still have to push it to your max, otherwise it's not point, it might make yourself feel better but it won't do anything to you overall long distance run.

    I understand that it's different speed&lenght on people's intervals&sprints but if you don't push it 100% it won't be the same.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post
    It's true though, it's no shortcuts unfortunately, if you want to get stronger you have to lift more and if you want to be better at running you have to run, it's no way around it.
    My point is, I wasn't asking whether I should run or not. I was asking about which different training techniques are more likely to help an out of shape guy improve faster.

    Just like some weight lifting techniques are far superior to others for building muscle, some running training methods are more effective than others in improving running endurance and speed.

    So, saying "Just do more" isn't particularly helpful.

    That's not to say I'm ungrateful for your (and the others) input here. I very much appreciate all of you.
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
    Follow my Fat Loss Log For My Final 20 Pounds...
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post
    Even if you old and fat you still have to push it to your max, otherwise it's not point, it might make yourself feel better but it won't do anything to you overall long distance run.

    I understand that it's different speed&lenght on people's intervals&sprints but if you don't push it 100% it won't be the same.
    There is plenty of evidence that pushing 100% all the time can be less effective than more moderate training.

    Injuries, recovery time, etc all need to be taken into consideration.

    Again, just using the apps that help you get from the couch to a 10K as an example, it's clear their belief is that starting with walking then working up to walking alternating with jogging and working up to jogging alternating with running, etc is far more effective than starting 100% all out from day one. And the many 5 star reviews suggest they're right.

    So, I really don't get where you're getting this idea that 100% is the only way to go.
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
    Follow my Fat Loss Log For My Final 20 Pounds...
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    The tens of thousands of downloads and 5 star reviews of the various programs that help you go from couch/beginner to running a 5K would suggest the slow interval with progressive increases in speed and/or distance is actually quite effective.
    And 20 years of highly successful running and coaching (in my case) plus a certification as a USA track coach would disagree.

    Is it more effective than nothing-yes. Is it the most effective, no.

    Will it work for your purposes, sure.

    I am sorry, I was under the impression that you wanted honest feedback on the best way to improve your ability to run distance faster. If you truly want that, you need higher intensity intervals.

    But I'm sorry-what do I know, I just do this for a living

  22. Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post
    And 20 years of highly successful running and coaching (in my case) plus a certification as a USA track coach would disagree.
    Do you also train non-athletes? People who currently struggle to walk briskly for a single block? Would you train those people with the same methods as your top level athletes?
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
    Follow my Fat Loss Log For My Final 20 Pounds...
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/289941-kaprice-goes-final.html

  23. All I hear is excuses not to run, but what ever, good luck with getting better at running without actually run.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post
    All I hear is excuses not to run, but what ever, good luck with getting better at running without actually run.
    Not sure where you got that. I've been running (slowly) for about 2 miles 3 days a week. In my first post, I said I was trying to get ready for a 5K and wanted to know if steady state or alternating fast and slow is better.

    The whole argument has not been about whether to run or not but HOW to build up speed and endurance.

    Somehow it devolved into "just run more" and/or "just run as fast as you can" and I pushed back on the rationale for such advice.
    That avatar is not me. It's what I imagine as my ideal body.
    Follow my Fat Loss Log For My Final 20 Pounds...
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/289941-kaprice-goes-final.html

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Kaprice View Post
    Do you also train non-athletes? People who currently struggle to walk briskly for a single block? Would you train those people with the same methods as your top level athletes?
    Actually yes-I always differentiate my workouts for all of my athletes.
    Even those who start unable to complete a mile benefit from intense (80%-90%) intervals.
    You are moving-that is a great start.
    You came into this thread wanting advice on how to run faster and I gave it to you. No matter how many downloads your app has had, that doesn't change the fact that mixing in some interval work (true intervals) is the surest way to improve performance
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