8 weeks on androgel - blood results

[rlukas79]

Doc just did:

Total test: 245 (Prior to starting androgel , 295)
Estrodial: 29.1
Estrone, Serum: 64


I'm on two pumps of Androgel 1.62..
also Hemotocrit: 51.3
Hemoglobin: 18.2

I thought transdermal apps were somewhat easier on the Hemotocrit and Hemoglobin end. It took almost 18 months when I was on injectables (two years ago, stopped for fertility reasons) for my hematocrit and hemoglobin levels to go above normal.

So I now know why i feel like crap, what I don't want my Doc to do is jump the gun and pull me off of TRT due to the rising hemoglobin levels. I'll do therapeutic phlebotomy to stay on top of it. Any info is helpful.

 

[sammpedd88]

When it comes to gel vs injections, injections are tried and true. Drop the gel and go to test cyp. Start with 100 mugs injections a week or split that amount and do injections every 3.5 days. Give blood and stay hydrated. If your dr doesn't support that then find another one.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Injections are way more effective. Tell your doctor you are afraid of the gel getting on your kids, gf or wife.

 

[kenpoengineer]

 

[rlukas79]

one thing that i realized to is that over the 8 weeks i've consumed on average 3-4 days a week of red meat. Sirloin steaks, I'm talking 16-20oz 3-4 times a week. That could play a part of the hemoglobin/hemoticrit levels going up. my RBC count is in the normal range

 

[rlukas79]

i called this one from a mile away.......Doc told me to stop androgel. making me go see a hematologist...He didn't like when I questioned him on why...I told him it's obvious it's secondary polycythemia. Told him going off hormones cold Turkey is dangerous and I will be seeking a second opinion. What I don't understand is that I already told him that in the past that i had this issue and this time around I would do blood donation/letting every 8 weeks. I told him that is the standard protocol these days. He didn't want to hear it. So I made an appointment with Defy Medical and will just go the hassle free route. In the mean time, I have a blood donation scheduled for today and will stay on the androgel until i have my Doctor consultation with Defy.

 

[Cycloman]

Let us know what the Defy says –they are a good outfit. One thing that seems very odd – is that I would not expect to see anywhere near these results from two pumps of AndroGel. Also – the high hemoglobin and hematocrit usually results from high testosterone – which you do not have – in fact it actually shut you down further, because you simply were not taking enough of the gel to do anything for you. The only thing I could think of, is that you may be in ultra high responder to DHT – which is activated when the AndroGel gets absorbed in the skin – and is typically responsible for some of the negative side effects from testosterone. Have you ever had blood tests prior to going on TRT? Again, it just seems very strange that such a little dose would cause your blood work to be this far out of whack. Keep us posted.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Are you suffering from sleep apnea? This could cause the high hematocrit.

 

[rlukas79]

Not sure but I am scheduling a sleep study also seeing a Hematologist tomorrow. My Doc seems to think being that I'v been so low adding any type of exogenous test may have initially made my body respond this way. My numbers in Dec were 16.7 and 46%. Since my last Doctors visit i've given two pints of blood, 1 pint a week for the last two weeks. My hemoglobin last Wednesday was 17.1. When I had my first donation two weeks ago my hemoglobin was 18.2. My blood type is A+ so none of the blood banks, including American Red Cross will waste their time on a double red cell donation on me lol.

One thing I did't pot in this thread is that initially when I went on Androgel, I had androgel from 3 years ago that I used along with the 2 pumps a day prescribed by doctor. Not the smartest thing to do...

 

[Justlooking5]

I've seen a number of androgel bloodwork posts on the web and it's convinced me to avoid it completely if I ever start TRT. Levels in like the 2-400s which is a joke.

 

[rlukas79]

So i saw a hematologist this week that will do phlebotomy if needed. I will see her every 4-6 weeks, She doesn't worried about acquired polycythemia until it's over 56% and there always the likelihood that hematocrit/hemaglobin levels eventually level off but she agrees that it was a poor choice for my endocrinologist to pull me off of hormones like that. As she and everyone else seem to know, can cause all types of issues.

 

[Cycloman]

It really depends. I think the ones who have done the most posting online were the ones who have had issues with absorption - so the online community is skewed towards negative reviews. I know several people taking it with good success. Adding HCG makes it even more effective. From a personal experience- 4 pumps of 1.62% had me mid 500's - 600s in the trough (24 hours after application). However adding 300 IUs of HCG EOD had me near 1100 ng/dl.

 

[rlukas79]

I would have no problem with that protocol. But With HC, can you stay on that the whole time?

 

[napalm]

Gel at 3 pumps a day only got me to 425. Went back to im. Don't worry about going to a hematologist, I did and after my work up he wasn't worried about increased H&H. He said if you'd have asked him the same question 10 yrs ago he would have had a different answer, but the data shows no increase in cardiac events in men w high H&H from test.

 

[Cycloman]

That's great to know. Thanks

 

[dcuozzo]

Androgel is the worst absorbing gel on the market. Testim is much much better but has a scent. I just started using Aveed long acting injectable. 10 week. Does not get me as high as Cyp. But I am over 500 ng/dl from low 200s

 

[bad rad]

I've seen a number of androgel bloodwork posts on the web and it's convinced me to avoid it completely if I ever start TRT. Levels in like the 2-400s which is a joke.

10gms daily only got me to 100's. I felt like total crap.

 

[Cycloman]

Yes indeed – I have seen a lot of that on the web as well. In fact my own personal experience with it actually had me with a lower testosterone level than prior – that was until I upped the dose and added hCG in the mix. The two of these compounds together work synergistically – and had me over 1000. My doctor – who is also a personal friend of mine – and former AAS user in college – uses the androgel and hCG and his testosterone level is over 1500. A guy in my office – who is on 80 mg per day of only the testosterone gel – and he was 575

Most of the issues I've seen are when doctors are clueless – and have people taking the minimum dose. You got to start out 80 to 100 mg per day (4-5 pumps) and adjust from there.

Lastly FWIW - I had a consultation with a major testosterone clinic – who only uses shots – but after going over my numbers and results – they felt that there was no need to change my protocol of the gel with the hCG.

The bottom line is this – unless you have a very progressive doctor. that is willing to try some of the new ways of doing things – you're better off going on shots.

 

[sammpedd88]

Yes indeed – I have seen a lot of that on the web as well. In fact my own personal experience with it actually had me with a lower testosterone level than prior – that was until I upped the dose and added hCG in the mix. The two of these compounds together work synergistically – and had me over 1000. My doctor – who is also a personal friend of mine – and former AAS user in college – uses the androgel and hCG and his testosterone level is over 1500. A guy in my office – who is on 80 mg per day of only the testosterone gel – and he was 575

Most of the issues I've seen are when doctors are clueless – and have people taking the minimum dose. You got to start out 80 to 100 mg per day (4-5 pumps) and adjust from there.

Lastly FWIW - I had a consultation with a major testosterone clinic – who only uses shots – but after going over my numbers and results – they felt that there was no need to change my protocol of the gel with the hCG.

The bottom line is this – unless you have a very progressive doctor. that is willing to try some of the new ways of doing things – you're better off going on shots.

Does you Dr keep his levels over 1500 consistently?

 

[rippedjuice23]

Does you Dr keep his levels over 1500 consistently?

I used andro gel for 5 months the pump and the PAckets I felt like maybe alittle
But my test every were .68 after being off 2 months but I have stayed on year-round a few yrs with trenbolone enanthate or ace, then test Propionate, masteron and anavar but lately I've been doing Propionate with cypionate with deca and I don't mind it while I have some gh inme I'm just scared after 14 yrs of and anabolics my heart has had to have some effect especially adding adderall 30mg pre-workout and xanax to calm the anxiety it stirs up with test and tren. Anyways I get. Blood work done every few months nothing bad except elevated liver enzymes

 

[Cycloman]

Does you Dr keep his levels over 1500 consistently?

Yeah pretty much – they were actually 1700 for a while but it came down to 1200. According to him, and I've known him since college and he's a great doctor – as long as the lab work does not show elevated PSA, hematocrit, hemoglobin, etc. you're good to go.

 

[Cycloman]

I used andro gel for 5 months the pump and the PAckets I felt like maybe alittle
But my test every were .68 after being off 2 months but I have stayed on year-round a few yrs with trenbolone enanthate or ace, then test Propionate, masteron and anavar but lately I've been doing Propionate with cypionate with deca and I don't mind it while I have some gh inme I'm just scared after 14 yrs of and anabolics my heart has had to have some effect especially adding adderall 30mg pre-workout and xanax to calm the anxiety it stirs up with test and tren. Anyways I get. Blood work done every few months nothing bad except elevated liver enzymes

Well – everything depends on the dose that you take Also, the effect of steroids in terms of heart blockage is a bit overrated. Androgens lower HDL, which in theory causes heart disease – but that's really a 30-year-old rumor. We know now that heart disease is really caused from inflammation – which is triggered by external stress, sleep deprivation, foods that we eat such as excessive simple carbohydrates etc.

Here's what I would do if I were you – go to a cardiologist and get a calcium stress test. It measures if you have any plaque in your arteries – and it's noninvasive – they just have to scan you with a special machine. You may also want to go on a low dose Statin – which has shown to be protective of all forms of heart disease.

Also – how high were your liver enzymes and for how long? Tren is pretty much notorious for that – as is Anavar – but of the two if you keep Anavar in the 20 to 40 mg rain today – it should have a minimal impact. Going higher, and also throwing in Tren probably jacked your enzymes quite a bit.

Unless you're competing – there's probably safer ways to blast and cruise without using something like Tren.

 

[sandpig]

I'd suggest finding a new Doc. Every city must have doctors that believe in real TRT these days.

Don't be afraid to ask around. It's not a taboo subject anymore.