Shutdown from SARMs - pct advice

[Cycloman]

Hi. I was about halfway through my first SARMs cycle and just got back my bloods. My total test was under 100. Dropped over 400 points - holy ****.

So should I just finish the cycle since I'm already suppressed and making good gains?

Also - for pct, I'm assuming I would need a combination of Clomid and Nolva since the Clomid alone may not be enough?

Any other thoughts?

Has anyone had test values this low and recovered fully from pct?

 

[BlockBuilder]

Umm clomid or nolva by itself would be enough. Not sure why you think you need both

 

[Cycloman]

Thanks I was reading about PCTs for AAS cycles where shutdown was expected and the recommendation was running both Nolva and Clo. Didn't expect this degree of shutdown from SARMs. Would 4 weeks be enough to kick start the HTPA?

 

[versso]

What SARMs are you on and dosage?

 

[Juicedeez utz]

You're not shutdown yet, shutdown is when your test, LH and FSH levels are nil, SARMS are just really suppressive to test, just clomid will do fine and 4 weeks would be more than enough if you're really worried

 

[Bolics]

Yeah look your test is low sure, but i bet your LH doesn't look too bad. It'l be supressed but not too bad. This means recovery will be much easier than on AAS. I recommend running Clomid solo, you wont need to go mental with it either.

 

[Cycloman]

Great. I feel a lot better now. I was running Rad 10 Osta 25 ED. Made great gains and had no other symptoms until recently (low libido). Seems most folks I spoke to including this forum said go with Clomid - others recommend both Nolva /Clomid with an aromatizer . I'll probably run the Clo with something like GW. Thanks again.

 

[xo0ox]

Sure a super PCT would include Nolva, Clomid and Aromasin.

Nolva:
40/20/20/10/10
Clomid:
100/50/25/25
Aromasin:
12,5-25mg EOD for the length of the PCT.

But this is a PCT for people coming of stuff like a long Test/Deca combo.

In you case Clomid 50/50/25/25 would most likely suffice.

 

[Cycloman]

Thanks so much xo0ox! I really appreciate that. So just to confirm - the Clomid dose alone would be good for T levels as low as mine (about 85)? Also, have you ever heard of Sarms being this suppressive? I would expect it from AAS but I thought Sarms would not have that drastic an effect from what I've read.

 

[Blergs]

dont bother with AI in PCT, people get confused with research showing test levels going up a bit when using an AI but thats because they HAVE T in their systems so ofcourse less conversion to estro would = more T, the setting is important, but many preach AI in PCT and in reality i would stop it before or a week into PCT. i would just do the clomid and nolva combo for 4-5 weeks then wait 6-8 weeks and go for blood work IMO

 

[Blergs]

Thanks so much xo0ox! I really appreciate that. So just to confirm - the Clomid dose alone would be good for T levels as low as mine (about 85)? Also, have you ever heard of Sarms being this suppressive? I would expect it from AAS but I thought Sarms would not have that drastic an effect from what I've read.

alot of places are recklessly pushing SARMS as not causing shutdown or not causing much of it and in reality they do and some worse than others. and they ARE liver toxic as well as i have seen in research, less so than most oral AAS, but dont buy the BS of SARMS not causing shutdown at al or having any impact on the liver.

did you do blood work before doing the sarms? maybe its time for HRT if the pct doesnt work out

 

[Bolics]

SARMS always have and always will cause suppression. As mentioned above they actually have most of the same sides as oral steroids, only nowhere near as bad. Apart from suppression with high doses or big stacks, this is probably comparable to a mild oral steroid, maybe anavar or something similar.

Clomid will be fine for you. I'd be very very surprised if it didn't raise your test up to normal values. And yeah, use an A.I for reducing estrogen and/or gyno prevention. That's all it does. You have low estrogen, so don't bother!

 

[Cycloman]

Thanks again everyone. Sarms are indeed suppressive - dropped my T levels almost 90 %. I did make very good gains and did not have the sides associated with AAS - which I've used many years ago. Hopefully recovery in PCT will be easier than wit AAS. I would say my gains were comparable to a. Anavar run - which I did in the 80's. I'm pleased with the results - just disappointed with the level of suppression.

 

[Bolics]

Thanks again everyone. Sarms are indeed suppressive - dropped my T levels almost 90 %. I did make very good gains and did not have the sides associated with AAS - which I've used many years ago. Hopefully recovery in PCT will be easier than wit AAS. I would say my gains were comparable to a. Anavar run - which I did in the 80's. I'm pleased with the results - just disappointed with the level of suppression.

If you check out studies on say Ostarine you'll see that while it is supressive to Test quite a lot, it is more mild on LH levels than AAS by quite a huge amount. LH of course is what is responsible for bringing test levels back after the cycle so if they are higher to begin with in PCT, it will be much quicker and easier to recover. That is the difference really. Again check the studies at almost all doses on most SARMS people recover all there test in 4 weeks with no PCT, because of the LH levels being good. (But bear in mind the doses in studies are not really the doses we use, so suppression is obviously more)

 

[Cycloman]

I'm going to be starting PCT this week. LH and FSH levels were, in fact, low normal - so I am at least producing Test which should help recovery. But here's my question:

An Endo I spoke with mentioned the benefits of using a low dose of Androgel during PCT to help alleviate the crash from coming off. (I am not on any TRT program). To me this makes zero sense and sort of defeats the purpose but I thought I'd run it by the group.

 

[Bolics]

I'm going to be starting PCT this week. LH and FSH levels were, in fact, low normal - so I am at least producing Test which should help recovery. But here's my question:

An Endo I spoke with mentioned the benefits of using a low dose of Androgel during PCT to help alleviate the crash from coming off. (I am not on any TRT program). To me this makes zero sense and sort of defeats the purpose but I thought I'd run it by the group.

That seems like a terrible idea. You won't recover as fast or as well. And perhaps not at all. I think it's best to just stick it out. PCT isn't all that bad, my last one didn't feel like anything, felt completely normal. And that was solo Clomid.

 

[jgntyce]

OP, not sure if you addressed the rise in cortisol during PCT. SNS REDUCE XT is THE product to help you control cortisol during PCT.

 

[Toff]

next time run a test base. finish the cycle

For me, the only thing thats brught me back is sustain alpha and or iforce Reversitol v2

 

[xo0ox]

The only thing you should be taking is low dose Nolva and or Clomid + cortisol lowering supplement (Reduce-XT is a good option as well as MAN Sports Nolvadren-XT)
Your LF and FSH haven't taken a big hit so you should be back and kicking within 4 weeks.

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
or
Nolva: 20/20/10/10

 

[xo0ox]

I'm going to be starting PCT this week. LH and FSH levels were, in fact, low normal - so I am at least producing Test which should help recovery. But here's my question:

An Endo I spoke with mentioned the benefits of using a low dose of Androgel during PCT to help alleviate the crash from coming off. (I am not on any TRT program). To me this makes zero sense and sort of defeats the purpose but I thought I'd run it by the group.

The only thing you should be taking is low dose Nolva and or Clomid + cortisol lowering supplement (Reduce-XT is a good option as well as MAN Sports Nolvadren-XT)
Your LF and FSH haven't taken a big hit so you should be back and kicking within 4 weeks.
If you take testgel you will supress not only for test levels but you will down you LF and FSH that you want to bring up during PCT.

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
or
Nolva: 20/20/10/10

 

[Cycloman]

The only thing you should be taking is low dose Nolva and or Clomid + cortisol lowering supplement (Reduce-XT is a good option as well as MAN Sports Nolvadren-XT)
Your LF and FSH haven't taken a big hit so you should be back and kicking within 4 weeks.

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
or
Nolva: 20/20/10/10

Thanks brother! Any preference on Clo vs Nolva. I've read numerous reports and they all seem to work (Clo seems better at raising test levels with slightly more sides / Nolva works great at a lower doors – but lowers IGF but is better for lipids.)

For cortisol - I was going to run some Cardarine but I will check out the supps you listed.

 

[Cycloman]

^^ ps - I meant lower dose not doors :/)

 

[xo0ox]

Thanks brother! Any preference on Clo vs Nolva. I've read numerous reports and they all seem to work (Clo seems better at raising test levels with slightly more sides / Nolva works great at a lower doors – but lowers IGF but is better for lipids.)

For cortisol - I was going to run some Cardarine but I will check out the supps you listed.

Clomid or Nolva is whatever you prefer/can get a hold of.
In you case Nolva would maybe be prefeble as you LH and FSH is in the low/normal range (clomid is really good a raising these) and SARM lower testosterone and raise estrogen a bit for some (ostarine) so the nolva could protect against estro effects while you body gets the test up.

I know many is against AI during PCT but the combination of Nolva and Aromasin is really good in rising test an keeping estro at bay after using a compound that could raise estrogen during the cycle.

 

[Studhorse]

I have two buddies in there 50's and they love ostra. they run for 8 weeks @ 25mg and at week 4 they add 4-andro to finish off the 8 weeks.
they wait a week and start Nolva: 20/20/10/10.
there bloods come back good.

 

[Cycloman]

Thanks for all the advice fellas – I ran a Nolvadex Pct 20/20/10/10 along with some MK677. I had no issues at all really – in fact I think I even made gains past the PCT. so I'm about six weeks past cycle including PCT. any thoughts on how long I should wait before starting my next Sarms cycle? I've stayed on the MK 677 since the effects have been fantastic i've heard that can be run for months – plus it is not suppressive. I was going to wait another two weeks – so it would be a four week PCT – then four weeks off (other than the MK)– and then hit another 8 to 10 weeks Sarms cycle (Rad/Osta). Would I be good to go assuming the bloods came back OK or should I wait longer?

 

[Bolics]

Thanks for all the advice fellas – I ran a Nolvadex Pct 20/20/10/10 along with some MK677. I had no issues at all really – in fact I think I even made gains past the PCT. so I'm about six weeks past cycle including PCT. any thoughts on how long I should wait before starting my next Sarms cycle? I've stayed on the MK 677 since the effects have been fantastic i've heard that can be run for months – plus it is not suppressive. I was going to wait another two weeks – so it would be a four week PCT – then four weeks off (other than the MK)– and then hit another 8 to 10 weeks Sarms cycle (Rad/Osta). Would I be good to go assuming the bloods came back OK or should I wait longer?

To be honest given your situation i'd say take more than 4 weeks after the PCT has ended. Probably 8 weeks, then start the next cycle. MK-677 is awesome and can be ran for up to 6 months without any natural GH suppression.

 

[Cycloman]

To be honest given your situation i'd say take more than 4 weeks after the PCT has ended. Probably 8 weeks, then start the next cycle. MK-677 is awesome and can be ran for up to 6 months without any natural GH suppression.

You were right. Just got bloods back and Total T, Fsh, LH and HDL barely moved at all. Does it take this long to recover or could I have gotten bunk Nolvadex?

Been running MK677 and making gains in that but that should have had no impact.

 

[user567]

You can tell if you have legit Nolva. Do you look dry? Ill never understand not running pharma grade PCT. So easy to get and cheap as hell.

 

[Cycloman]

You can tell if you have legit Nolva. Do you look dry? Ill never understand not running pharma grade PCT. So easy to get and cheap as hell.

Can't really tell. Never did a PCT before. I used the Sarms manufacturer's Nolva. Sarms were legit so had faith in the Serm. Dumb on my part. I think it's safe to say it was total bunk considering my
Values did not move. I thought I would have recovered more on my own anyway. Makes me wonder if my MK677 is legit or something else.

 

[Toff]

you cant get pharma grade anything on the BM

why dya think arnie got massive on low doses. Apart from the effort they had legit doctors prescribing legit stuff!

 

[Juicedeez utz]

you cant get pharma grade anything on the BM

why dya think arnie got massive on low doses. Apart from the effort they had legit doctors prescribing legit stuff!

Dunno who you buy stuff off but I get all my pharma grade off the BM, you go to a doctor and ask him to give you clomophine or tamoxifen, surely if you're have insurance, telling a doc that you do AAS will skyrocket your insurance?

 

[Toff]

British - NHS, no insurance.

You also dont get to ask for drugs you get advised on your condition and sent home.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Haha I'm British too, I meant for the sake of this guy! I also feel your British pain! Hence I buy everything BM which is usually prescription boxes anyway

 

[Cycloman]

Trust me it takes a very special sort of doctor here in the United States to prescribe anything related to gear. Most doctors would be more than happy to keep your natural testosterone level at 300 because it's clinically within range. I'm very fortunate because my best friend from college is a doctor, who is also running cycles of SARMs , and he and I did a lot of roids back in the 80s - so I can speak with him openly and he'll get me what he believes I need. Now when it comes to all of the stuff I'm taking, it's basically a science experiment – there are so many unknown variables – I was taking some SARMs from the black market, along with PCT products, I'm also on some MK677 - who knows what was in the stuff. My doc buddy is taking some low-dose Androgel along with some hCG – and he said his testosterone level hit 1800 - normally, just by taking AndroGel he would've been in the 500 range. So, he said that blasting some hCG would be the best protocol because it would be the quickest way to raise my natural test, and me and Andogel is really just a benefit to help counteract any symptoms of low T – then when my T levels are raised sufficiently – I could start backing off everything and see how things wind up. He would give me a script for Clomid – as he believes that is a better LH agonist than Nolvadex – but he said the hCG protocol would work faster.

 

[Toff]

hCG - no-way to do this DIY is there? needs someone pro to administer

similar to intra BCAAs that they took int he 80s had major effects on compostion more than test