Endo put me on clomid not Test shots...

[Jonnnno]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum from Australia. 33 years of age and have had low T last 6 plus months, went through an up hill battle with doctor to get referred to endocrinologist.

I have had multiple blood work done, my T is around the 150 area and I suspect has been for several years.

I'm always tired shift, worker and two young children, il get to it...

Endo has put me on clomid for a month too see if it raises my T, if not suggested test shots next.

Had an MRI done to check pituitary etc, came back clear.

My concern here is if the clomid works I will miss out on test shots, my understanding is clomid will not sustain my LH and test levels long term and my levels will return to rock bottom lows.

Will the Endo pick up in my blood work if I don't take the clomid?

He's prescribed me 50mg a day over a month.

Lastly I've had the snip not concerned about fertility, have not used anabolics in the past I believe my T levels are due to jack Daniels and my weight throughout my twenties.

Have since changed my habits, thank you all in advance for your time.

 

[sammpedd88]

Stay on track with your habits you have changed and give the Clomid a try. If you can kick start your natural production with Clomid then great. If it doesn't work then shots it is. It's really a win win situation

 

[Jonnnno]

Thanks for the reply Sam, will it be clear to the endocrinologist if I haven't taken the clomid for that period. Will it be straight cut ie LH levels should be through the roof or will it just suggest the clomid didn't kickstart my HPTA or testies?

 

[kenpoengineer]

Thanks for the reply Sam, will it be clear to the endocrinologist if I haven't taken the clomid for that period. Will it be straight cut ie LH levels should be through the roof or will it just suggest the clomid didn't kickstart my HPTA or testies?

Your endo is trying to kickstart your natural HPTA with the Clomid. If this works you can avoid TRT. Is this not what you want? It sounds like you want testosterone injections. You do know that TRT is for life, right?

 

[Jonnnno]

Yes Ken my understanding of clomid and the articles I've read men seem to bounce back to their low T levels within months. And if I go down the path of anabolics I don't have to worry about pct on Trt.

 

[sammpedd88]

Yes Ken my understanding of clomid and the articles I've read men seem to bounce back to their low T levels within months. And if I go down the path of anabolics I don't have to worry about pct on Trt.

IF and ONLY IF the Clomid doesn't work then you should look at TRT. There are many guys that Clomid works for. As far as not worrying about a pct, I'm assuming your looking at TRT for blasting?

 

[Jonnnno]

I just don't want to fall into a trap where the clomid wears off in 3-6 months and I've got to go through this doctor/Endo process all over again. It's different here in Australia we don't have trt/anti ageing clinics everywhere, it's been a 4 month drawn out process to get this far. I have genuine signs of low t and it effects my work performance and in the bedroom. Don't want to be back here in 6 months with the same sides.

 

[Jonnnno]

As far as blasting goes, if I was on exogenous T there would be no need for pct after cycles Sam.

 

[sammpedd88]

As far as blasting goes, if I was on exogenous T there would be no need for pct after cycles Sam.

I know there's no need for a PCT. The point I was trying to make was it seems you may want to be on TRT for the mass building benefits if you blasted. I've been on TRT for 3 years now. I'm glad I'm on TRT but I wish I didn't have to be. If I had known about Clomid in the beginning i would have tried it first. I understand your frustration of having low t and not wanting to start from square one again. I did that when I started going to a urologist. I was on gel in the beginning and he took me off for three months. It was terrible. He then put me on injections, 100 mgs a week. My TT went up to the 800's but my E2 went up two. He said he was going to put me on injections every two weeks. I found another Dr and have been fine since. Are there integrative medicine Dr's there?

 

[Jonnnno]

I understand the clomid could resolve these dramas, not so confident long term though. I'm leaning towards trt for the mass gains and the fact I've had kids and not concerned about fertility anymore. I'm probably one of the lucky ones in Australia seem to have gotten into a decent Endo, just not sure if he'll know if I haven't taken the clomid. I may take it 3-5 days prior to blood work so it raises my LH but not T levels due to short term dosage

 

[sammpedd88]

I understand the clomid could resolve these dramas, not so confident long term though. I'm leaning towards trt for the mass gains and the fact I've had kids and not concerned about fertility anymore. I'm probably one of the lucky ones in Australia seem to have gotten into a decent Endo, just not sure if he'll know if I haven't taken the clomid. I may take it 3-5 days prior to blood work so it raises my LH but not T levels due to short term dosage

What ever you decide to do, just remember there's a few on this forum that have restarted using Clomid after being on TRT. So there is hope Clomid could work. Keep us posted with your progress.

 

[Jonnnno]

Can do, thanks again for your time Sam.

 

[kisaj]

Good conversation in here.

 

[Jonnnno]

Can someone tell me what clomids half life is and how long it takes to kick your test into gear?

 

[sammpedd88]

Kisaj...Can you answer this one? I would assume two-three weeks Clomid should kick in real good.

 

[kisaj]

That is the range my current endo and doc seem to feel it normally kicks in. I don't know anyone going the Clomid route, unfortunately, so I can't add much to this topic, but it interests me.

 

[Jonnnno]

Hmmmm I think I'll just wing it, not take it and push for shots. I think personally that's my best option. Really keen on running orals and trt as a test base in the future. To my knowledge either clomid works or it doesn't, I'm no Endo

 

[v4lu3s]

You need to follow the doctor's plan. Clomid can work REALLY well. In fact my brother was on it for years to keep his test levels up and assist with increasing sperm count while having a kid. Take your meds, don't lie to your doctors, and see if their plan works. Your doctor is actually dong the right thing to test and see what parts of you are working right. After the Clomid challenge the idea is monitor and see if test levels go up, and symptoms go down. Then monitor to see if the body has kicked into gear and is working on its own correctly, or if the next step is needed.

The concept of being on test sure is alluring, but its for life and often once you start one drug you have to add others and have multiple other concerns. A working body is MUCH easier to work with and care for. Overall its a pain in the ass having to take shots to be "normal" again, and I say this after being on TRT for 4.5 years now. Clomid actually helped me a lot in a 4 week challenge, but 3 months later my levels were right back down in the gutter. Other guys I know have done better. I wish my levels had returned but now I am on shots for life, have to take an AI often, have to donate blood regularly, also have to watch my blood pressure a LOT more closely.

To me it sounds like you have probably messed things up already with steroid usage and are just looking for an excuse to lie your way into TRT. If that's your goal just be out and open about it, a lot of us are on TRT because we actually need it and don't have to lie to our docs...if you get caught not following doc's orders and lying etc all it does it make it harder for everyone else that is honestly looking for a solution.

 

[Jonnnno]

V4lu3s, you've made some valid points there. I respect your "cautious" opinion but when looking at the facts and studies I've read clomid can be only a temporary fix. You have used your brother as an example who is somebody that's using clomid for fertility issues not the lethargy and dive in libido I have. You said so yourself 3 months later your back in the gutter.

As far as "messed things up already with steroid usage" that's not the case here... Although that's a pretty biased opinion for an anabolics forum.

Certainly I would entertain the idea of using trt as a base for running gear once onboard, I don't understand the argument when clomid isn't a proven "long term" treatment as oppose to test injections. I'm trying to make the right decision here for the next 20 plus years, I don't have the patience to go through this again in 12 months time when my levels drop off.

I appreciate the input though I'm still not quite an expert on hormones yet, I can tell you this though I never have the energy or drive of people I work with that are 10 -15 years my senior.

Libido is dead

I'm on a six figure income, simply cannot afford to jeopardise that but my performance is starting to show.

Yes trt does seem like the holy grail for a man in his early 30s that's had a vasectomy and can't get his sword hard.

 

[scherbs]

OP: I appreciate your clear eyes look at TRT and why you are seeking it.
Do realize though that you are Doctor shopping and pill-seeking in a way that is the moral equivalent of a junkie looking to get a trumped up script for oxy.
V4lu3s has made some great points, I would follow your doctors plan myself: life isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Even if clomid doesn't work, that sets you back a couple months. In the grand scheme of your life, a couple months is a rounding error for the chance to get your body working again instead of being dependant on exogenous test the rest of your life

 

[j4ever41]

clomid can work, it brought me from 200 to approx. 450, BUT I stayed on a low dose for 12 months, have tested 3 times since being off and tt comes back 450 give or take a few points, but if you want to go straight to trt good luck, hell I'm 50 and still putting it off, I have done enough **** to know that I get sick of pining after a year or so

 

[Jonnnno]

ha ha I don't know...

 

[user567]

Clomid works. Give it a try. Worst case is you go off, get tested in 2 weeks, if you see your T is back down jump back on until you make the leap to TRT. its a no brainer

 

[bigsmall]

Guys, in this case, would Nolva work as well as Clomid and if so, what would be a suggested dose and length of use?

 

[fweed]

ha ha I don't know...

When did your problems start, could there be a link with the vasectomy?
I've read there are quite a few cases where a vasectomy resulted in erectile dysfunction as well as hormone imbalances.

Perhaps consider that there might be a physical problem, and it that it might be resolvable.
Would need to talk with a good urologist to find out.

 

[Spurfy]

TRT is not all it's made out to be. Having consistently elevated testosterone levels without diurnal peaks and troughs is extremely unnatural and results in dysregulation of mutiple endocrine pathways.

I'm going to throw out just one example: Oxytocin, the hormone required for bonding and maintaining stable and rewarding relationships, as well as compassion and empathy, is strongly inhibited by testosterone. (1) Normally, even a naturally high-testosterone man can have large fluctuations in testosterone levels, and these often coincide with psychosocial stimuli which are conducive to oxytocin release -- thus allowing for the maintenance of deeply rewarding human social interactions. On TRT, this response is extremely blunted, because pulsatile LH release no longer controls testosterone synthesis and the body has no way to significantly reduce plasma testosterone levels, as needed, to facilitate a bonding social interaction. And, the worst part of testosterone-induced oxytocin suppression is that the testosterone user is completely unaware, because oxytocin itself is required for introspection and emotional self-analysis. (2) So, all of you guys on TRT who are going to tell me I'm wrong and that you haven't changed a bit, can save your typing -- you're not even biologically capable of seeing your own functional impairment just like a drunk is biologically incapable of assessing his level of impairment.

With that in mind, clomid can work, but it absolutely must be dosed low (no more than 12.5 mg EOD) and paired with a consistent dose of exemestane. This will maintain your T-levels at high-normal levels, but still allow you the full range of human emotions and experiences.


1. Biol Rev Camb Philos Soc. 2016 May;91(2):390-408. doi: 10.1111/brv.12175. Epub 2015 Jan 28.
2. Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2015 Mar; 18(5): pyu051.

 

[fweed]

I hope I can find a doctor with that level of insight, Spurfy. My emotions and relationship forming has been blunted or ground down to nothing. I haven't taken testosterone, but something happened which is still unresolved and unexplained after a year and a half and dozens of doctor and specialist visits.
My libido dropped to nothing overnight, one day fine, the nest day exhausted with absolutely no libido. Couple of days later I noticed my testicles had shrunk by 40-50%.

I've a thread on here, do you have any ideas?
I thought that perhaps whatever happened also affected my adrenals, the bloodflow from the testicles perhaps.
I have barely felt anything since, apart from occasional and brief sadness or anger.

 

[Cgkone]

TRT is not all it's made out to be. Having consistently elevated testosterone levels without diurnal peaks and troughs is extremely unnatural and results in dysregulation of mutiple endocrine pathways.

I'm going to throw out just one example: Oxytocin, the hormone required for bonding and maintaining stable and rewarding relationships, as well as compassion and empathy, is strongly inhibited by testosterone. (1) Normally, even a naturally high-testosterone man can have large fluctuations in testosterone levels, and these often coincide with psychosocial stimuli which are conducive to oxytocin release -- thus allowing for the maintenance of deeply rewarding human social interactions. On TRT, this response is extremely blunted, because pulsatile LH release no longer controls testosterone synthesis and the body has no way to significantly reduce plasma testosterone levels, as needed, to facilitate a bonding social interaction. And, the worst part of testosterone-induced oxytocin suppression is that the testosterone user is completely unaware, because oxytocin itself is required for introspection and emotional self-analysis. (2) So, all of you guys on TRT who are going to tell me I'm wrong and that you haven't changed a bit, can save your typing -- you're not even biologically capable of seeing your own functional impairment just like a drunk is biologically incapable of assessing his level of impairment.

With that in mind, clomid can work, but it absolutely must be dosed low (no more than 12.5 mg EOD) and paired with a consistent dose of exemestane. This will maintain your T-levels at high-normal levels, but still allow you the full range of human emotions and experiences.


1. Biol Rev Camb Philos Soc. 2016 May;91(2):390-408. doi: 10.1111/brv.12175. Epub 2015 Jan 28.
2. Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2015 Mar; 18(5): pyu051.

Interesting and we'll said.
But walking around with low test under 50 might be more harmful

 

[sammpedd88]

TRT is not all it's made out to be. Having consistently elevated testosterone levels without diurnal peaks and troughs is extremely unnatural and results in dysregulation of mutiple endocrine pathways.

I'm going to throw out just one example: Oxytocin, the hormone required for bonding and maintaining stable and rewarding relationships, as well as compassion and empathy, is strongly inhibited by testosterone. (1) Normally, even a naturally high-testosterone man can have large fluctuations in testosterone levels, and these often coincide with psychosocial stimuli which are conducive to oxytocin release -- thus allowing for the maintenance of deeply rewarding human social interactions. On TRT, this response is extremely blunted, because pulsatile LH release no longer controls testosterone synthesis and the body has no way to significantly reduce plasma testosterone levels, as needed, to facilitate a bonding social interaction. And, the worst part of testosterone-induced oxytocin suppression is that the testosterone user is completely unaware, because oxytocin itself is required for introspection and emotional self-analysis. (2) So, all of you guys on TRT who are going to tell me I'm wrong and that you haven't changed a bit, can save your typing -- you're not even biologically capable of seeing your own functional impairment just like a drunk is biologically incapable of assessing his level of impairment.

With that in mind, clomid can work, but it absolutely must be dosed low (no more than 12.5 mg EOD) and paired with a consistent dose of exemestane. This will maintain your T-levels at high-normal levels, but still allow you the full range of human emotions and experiences.


1. Biol Rev Camb Philos Soc. 2016 May;91(2):390-408. doi: 10.1111/brv.12175. Epub 2015 Jan 28.
2. Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2015 Mar; 18(5): pyu051.

All the reason to not be on crazy doses of test. Also two small injections twice a week keep your levels where they should be naturally. Complete blood work is also a must. TRT is not just injecting test. There's a lot more to it.

Having low T causes more health problems than using exogenous test and keeping your levels in normal ranges.

 

[kisaj]

I love how spurfy comes in stating that we should all not respond because he essentially just dropped the mic and walked out. That always goes well and makes your point better.

 

[sammpedd88]

If he's not on TRT then why is he even on here?

 

[Spurfy]

If he's not on TRT then why is he even on here?

Was. Check it out, it's a thing.

 

[sammpedd88]

Was. Check it out, it's a thing.

If you truly needed to be on TRT then you would still be on it.