TRT and Alpha feeling

[datsthat]

I've never done AAS or PH. I've read about the almighty Alpha feeling and would like to know those that are on TRT w/ T levels that are considered therapeutic aka dialed in., do you every feel that way?

I am starting TRT next week.


Thanks,

 

[wicked442]

I feel happy and energetic but not a god feel like running aas.

 

[LMuscle]

I felt more alpha before starting trt. Synthetic testosterone gives me severe anxiety even when e2 levels are in check.

 

[datsthat]

I feel happy and energetic but not a god feel like running aas.

Did you noticed if the happy energetic feeling diminished over time?

Do you get used to feeling better and then that being the norm?

 

[datsthat]

I felt more alpha before starting trt. Synthetic testosterone gives me severe anxiety even when e2 levels are in check.

You mean if e2 levels are NOT in check? Were you using AAS prior?

 

[wicked442]

Did you noticed if the happy energetic feeling diminished over time?

Do you get used to feeling better and then that being the norm?

My general well being is the same. Leveled out I guess. I never got over elated like I was on meth or anything from the start though.

 

[LMuscle]

You mean if e2 levels are NOT in check? Were you using AAS prior?

Nope, when my e2 levels are in check I still get severe anxiety which usually starts a couple hours after injection. I never touched any AAS prior to TRT. I think I may have something up with brain chemistry though which might be causing the anxiety.

 

[kisaj]

The alpha feeling comes heavy when e2 runs higher, but it isn't sustainable. Also, high DHT.

 

[datsthat]

Thanks for replies. I foresee myself trying AAS sometimes after I am at my therapeutic dose because I think TRT will desensitize myself to fear of injections.

 

[Gutterpump]

I feel happy and energetic but not a god feel like running aas.

Yup, I only get a true noticeably strong alpha feeling on closer to 1gram of test. This would mainly come from the huge surge in dopamine. Big surge in confidence and energy.

Regular TRT, when dialed in right, should reduce anxiety & increase energy/mood. It won't be a night/day difference.

 

[ELROCK]

I've never done AAS or PH. I've read about the almighty Alpha feeling and would like to know those that are on TRT w/ T levels that are considered therapeutic aka dialed in., do you every feel that way?

I am starting TRT next week.


Thanks,

I experienced an alpha feeling while on TRT, but it stayed pretty mild. I have had similar alpha male feelings from some of the better T-booster supplements. The first year of TRT you will notice many ups and dips in mood until you get everything (TT, Free T & E2) dialed in.

 

[datsthat]

I experienced an alpha feeling while on TRT, but it stayed pretty mild. I have had similar alpha male feelings from some of the better T-booster supplements. The first year of TRT you will notice many ups and dips in mood until you get everything (TT, Free T & E2) dialed in.

Ups and downs.... Yikes. I am ready for ride. Gotta be better than current situation

 

[Panda40]

Ups and downs.... Yikes. I am ready for ride. Gotta be better than current situation

Wow man. I feel for ya. I only feel that T high when I use more Androgel than I'm supposed to use. It kicks in about 3-4 hours after application. I never did injection of test but I would like to ( for different reasons than TRT:naughty

 

[datsthat]

Wow man. I feel for ya. I only feel that T high when I use more Androgel than I'm supposed to use. It kicks in about 3-4 hours after application. I never did injection of test but I would like to ( for different reasons than TRT:naughty

Interesting that you briefly felt that way from androgel. I am going to insist to go straight to injections only because my T is so low (145).
My body doesn't look any different for many months now and I work out like a beast and diet 90% on point. I've hit my plateau already. I wonder if I've reached my natural potential yet.

 

[datsthat]

For those that are on TRT, are you going thru Doctor or clinic? If clinic, how much does it cost? Any advantages going to clinic? Are you going to clinic by choice rather than Doctor?

I know I am asking a lot of questions. Thanks

 

[datsthat]

What are your doses? What else you are prescribed?

 

[Panda40]

Call me crazy but I have a problem that word "plateau". I say that because it is a largely anecdotal term. If you're already presenting symptoms causing you to suspect low T, you may also likely have less than optimal sleep. A wise saying is, "great abs are made in the kitchen not the gym". An equally wise saying is, "big muscles are built in the bed not the gym". Working out like a beast isn't necessarily a good thing if you're not sleeping like a baby.
I believe that plateaus must be proven. Something as seemingly simple as getting one more hour of sleep daily can make a mega difference.
I'm starting to sound like a party pooper, aren't I?

 

[datsthat]

Call me crazy but I have a problem that word "plateau". I say that because it is a largely anecdotal term. If you're already presenting symptoms causing you to suspect low T, you may also likely have less than optimal sleep. A wise saying is, "great abs are made in the kitchen not the gym". An equally wise saying is, "big muscles are built in the bed not the gym". Working out like a beast isn't necessarily a good thing if you're not sleeping like a baby.
I believe that plateaus must be proven. Something as seemingly simple as getting one more hour of sleep daily can make a mega difference.
I'm starting to sound like a party pooper, aren't I?

I get about 6-8 hrs sleep nightly. I fall asleep easily but wake up so many times. It's hard to understand if your T levels isn't in the mid 100s.

 

[chopper40]

I go through a Dr that specializes in men's health , I go for blood work 2 times a year and after insurance it's around 1000 a year for blood work and medicine I also take 20 MG of melatonin a night for sleep

 

[datsthat]

I go through a Dr that specializes in men's health , I go for blood work 2 times a year and after insurance it's around 1000 a year for blood work and medicine I also take 20 MG of melatonin a night for sleep

Wow, $1K seems like a lot considering insurance. I wonder how much I will have to pay after insurance

 

[Panda40]

I get about 6-8 hrs sleep nightly. I fall asleep easily but wake up so many times. It's hard to understand if your T levels isn't in the mid 100s.

Ah. Looks like we may be getting somewhere. Seems like your 6-8 hours of sleep may be more like a 1.5 hour nap followed by a 1 hour nap followed by a 1.5 hour nap followed by another 1.5 hour nap, etc. You're probably not getting any of that good healing delta wave sleep so, yes, it makes pefect sense that your T level is in the mid 100's.
Do you wake to empty your bladder or do you go to the bathroom anyway since you're up? Whether you wake to empty your bladder or not, you may want to measure yourself on the Epworth Sleepiness Scale. You could have a case of sleep apnea. My pulmonary doctor explained it best. She said that each you stop breathing in your sleep you get a small drop in your blood oxygen level, which triggers your survival reflex which makes your adrenals squeeze out a little adrenalin to make you start breathing again. The problem is you also get a little rise in cortisol too. If you stop breathing several times per hour you're getting that many spikes in your cortisol. Those spikes could lead to a lowered testosterone level because cortisol is a T-killer. Cortisol also leads to increased visceral abdominal fat (not saying you have that), increased blood pressure and fluid retention. By not getting enough deep sleep, you can develop short term memory problems (mental fogginess), decreased focus, irritability and, again, low testosterone. Sounds like you should be reaching for a Midol any minute now, right? Anyway, supplementing with calcium a few hours before bed can help but use a calcium citrate not a calcium carbonate. That way there won't be a potential for interference if you take a ZMA supplement before bed.

 

[datsthat]

Ah. Looks like we may be getting somewhere. Seems like your 6-8 hours of sleep may be more like a 1.5 hour nap followed by a 1 hour nap followed by a 1.5 hour nap followed by another 1.5 hour nap, etc. You're probably not getting any of that good healing delta wave sleep so, yes, it makes pefect sense that your T level is in the mid 100's.
Do you wake to empty your bladder or do you go to the bathroom anyway since you're up? Whether you wake to empty your bladder or not, you may want to measure yourself on the Epworth Sleepiness Scale. You could have a case of sleep apnea. My pulmonary doctor explained it best. She said that each you stop breathing in your sleep you get a small drop in your blood oxygen level, which triggers your survival reflex which makes your adrenals squeeze out a little adrenalin to make you start breathing again. The problem is you also get a little rise in cortisol too. If you stop breathing several times per hour you're getting that many spikes in your cortisol. Those spikes could lead to a lowered testosterone level because cortisol is a T-killer. Cortisol also leads to increased visceral abdominal fat (not saying you have that), increased blood pressure and fluid retention. By not getting enough deep sleep, you can develop short term memory problems (mental fogginess), decreased focus, irritability and, again, low testosterone. Sounds like you should be reaching for a Midol any minute now, right? Anyway, supplementing with calcium a few hours before bed can help but use a calcium citrate not a calcium carbonate. That way there won't be a potential for interference if you take a ZMA supplement before bed.

Interesting. You describe my sleep accurately. I assumed my hard time sleeping is due to low T. I don't always pee when I wake up but do get up to pee 9/10 nights.

Oh yea, I have abdominal layer fat that is very difficult to get rid of.....I have not succeeded yet.

Don't take ZMA but I should start.

I've had low T symptoms for the last 15years of my life, but I always thought my low T symptoms were a byproduct of my chronic opiate pain killer usage/abuse.

I know my previous opiate usage was fuel to my low T flame.

The only reason why I started researching about my symptoms was due to the fact that I am not making any physical progress. It makes sense now.... I started reading about why would a person that eats healthy (high protein) + work out (weights and cardio)+ evening fatigued + no libido + slight depression + don't enjoy little things in life + grump/moody/little patience + sleep problems + not gaining much muscles + abdominal fat = Low Testosterone. So I got checked and found out that my free testosterone is 1.3 / 145ng/dl which is the lowest that I've heard of without prior AAS usage.

 

[kisaj]

Panda brings up a very good point that is often overlooked and part of what needs to be addressed before moving to TRT. As I spent a year tracking sleep, diet, stress levels, environmental, etc to see if and where changes may have been introduced and working to correct. In my case, the changes were minimal and I ended up in TRT, but you owe it to yourself to make sure you can't raise levels naturally. Doctors will be all to happy to prescribe you, but it isn't always the answer.

 

[datsthat]

How long do you think I should try to naturally raise T level before TRT? 3months or that too short of time? I don't know if I want to wait much longer. My symptoms are not even close to life threatening but low energy/libido and such a blah feeling sucks.

 

[ELROCK]

How long do you think I should try to naturally raise T level before TRT? 3months or that too short of time? I don't know if I want to wait much longer. My symptoms are not even close to life threatening but low energy/libido and such a blah feeling sucks.

I can tell you this I wish my doctor and I spent more time trying to figure out the root of my low T before jumping right on TRT. However, those symptoms truly suck and I completely get wanting to get right on it.

 

[Panda40]

The average PCT lasts about half the length of the cycle. But I would think that a man who has had low T for an extended period (years) would be able to see positive results from an effective protocol in as little as 4 weeks. I stopped my Androgel back around March because I'm tired of the sides. I know there are a LOT of testosterone boosters on the market but I narrowed it down to three. I'm going to add an aromatase inhibitor after a week or so. I'might currently taking a ZMA supplement and I'll be adding a prostate support supplement in a couple weeks.
I just had my blood drawn last Tuesday to mark my "starting" point. I can post my results if requested. In fact, if this protocol works I'll post everything. I expect my blood test results today or tomorrow. Like I said, I can post complete details if need be.

 

[kisaj]

How long do you think I should try to naturally raise T level before TRT? 3months or that too short of time? I don't know if I want to wait much longer. My symptoms are not even close to life threatening but low energy/libido and such a blah feeling sucks.

That is entirely up to you and what commitment you have to solving your low test issues naturally. Myself, I wanted to run labs and change variables in hopes of not needing to be on something forever. Had DEXA and an MRI as well. I definitely took it further than most would, but that's me.

I'd say to give it 6 months and work a plan with your doc so there are documented and measurable changes that you can point to for your labs. I'd get a baseline, 3 month and 6 month labs with full hormone and CBC/lipids each time. I'd evaluate my diet and look to correct sleep first since that will always be important. Stress factors can be compounded by those two and may not be able to be removed at all, but worth looking to mitigate.

 

[Panda40]

View attachment SCAN6922.PDF

The average PCT lasts about half the length of the cycle. But I would think that a man who has had low T for an extended period (years) would be able to see positive results from an effective protocol in as little as 4 weeks. I stopped my Androgel back around March because I'm tired of the sides. I know there are a LOT of testosterone boosters on the market but I narrowed it down to three. I'm going to add an aromatase inhibitor after a week or so. I'might currently taking a ZMA supplement and I'll be adding a prostate support supplement in a couple weeks.
I just had my blood drawn last Tuesday to mark my "starting" point. I can post my results if requested. In fact, if this protocol works I'll post everything. I expect my blood test results today or tomorrow. Like I said, I can post complete details if need be.

Got my results today! My T Level is up. Last time it was 92 but that was my endocrinologist's order. This time I skipped the insurance and got the test I wanted myself. This is my start point.

 

[kisaj]

So, what are they?

 

[Panda40]

Hmm. I guess the pdf attachment didn't work.
Total testosterone: 215 low
Free testosterone: 36.6 low
Bio available: 72.1. low
SHBG: 22 within range

This was drawn last Tuesday. I started my testosterone booster that Wednesday.

 

[datsthat]

Hmm. I guess the pdf attachment didn't work.
Total testosterone: 215 low
Free testosterone: 36.6 low
Bio available: 72.1. low
SHBG: 22 within range

This was drawn last Tuesday. I started my testosterone booster that Wednesday.

Wow, that's a big increase.

 

[datsthat]

What are the 3 test boosters that you've narrowed down to?

 

[Panda40]

What are the 3 test boosters that you've narrowed down to?

What are the 3 test boosters that you've narrowed down to?

Whew! This was one BUSY week. I apologize for not responding sooner.
To answer your question I narrowed it down to Phytoserm 347X by Ruthless Supplements, HCGenerate from N2BM Nutrition and Test Stack No. 17. I settled on HCGenerate.
You may have noticed that my T levels sent from 92 to 215 in 6 months. That's not so big a deal. I had stopped using my Androgel about three weeks prior to my previous blood test so that was just the result of what happens from suppression. It took six months for me to get up to 215 because I didn't do any PCT.

 

[C Dub805]

Yes, I'm 40 and went from feeling like **** to feeling amazing! I'm on 200mg of cypionate per week and feel absolutely amazing! I haven't experienced an anabolic effect, but my libido is through the roof and I want to **** everything (female that is).

 

[datsthat]

Yes, I'm 40 and went from feeling like **** to feeling amazing! I'm on 200mg of cypionate per week and feel absolutely amazing! I haven't experienced an anabolic effect, but my libido is through the roof and I want to **** everything (female that is).

200mg is very high for TRT. Don't get me wrong, if you are ok with that dose and understand, then it's g2g.


I am on week 4 and placebo effect is gone. I feel a lot better than prior, but have to reaped full benefits yet.

 

[C Dub805]

200mg is very high for TRT. Don't get me wrong, if you are ok with that dose and understand, then it's g2g.


I am on week 4 and placebo effect is gone. I feel a lot better than prior, but have to reaped full benefits yet.

By whose standard is this "very" high? 200mg is a common TRT dose. Also, this amount only puts me in the high end of normal range (856).

 

[Gutterpump]

Has nothing to do with standards, but TRT is intended to replace natural levels of test. 200mg / week will put you over the top end of the range on labs, an unnatural level. I know because I've also been prescribed that in the past and had labs that put me well over (1200+).

How long after injection are you pulling labs?

 

[C Dub805]

Has nothing to do with standards, but TRT is intended to replace natural levels of test. 200mg / week will put you over the top end of the range on labs, an unnatural level. I know because I've also been prescribed that in the past and had labs that put me well over (1200+).

How long after injection are you pulling labs?

That's interesting. I am well under the top end range of normal and have been the entire time I have been on. Two of my friends are as well. Mind you, we are all in our 40's and had in the gutter levels before we even started TRT. 200mg of test cyp is a very conservative dose especially considering 100mg of test cyp yields, at best, 70mg of test. Lots of guys on TRT being prescribed 200mg of cyp per week brother.

 

[sammpedd88]

That's interesting. I am well under the top end range of normal and have been the entire time I have been on. Two of my friends are as well. Mind you, we are all in our 40's and had in the gutter levels before we even started TRT. 200mg of test cyp is a very conservative dose especially considering 100mg of test cyp yields, at best, 70mg of test. Lots of guys on TRT being prescribed 200mg of cyp per week brother.

There's really not that many guys prescribed 200 mgs. Most common dose is 100 mgs. But here's the thing....if 200 mgs keeps you within range then there's nothing wrong with it at all bro. You have to take what you have to take!

 

[C Dub805]

There's really not that many guys prescribed 200 mgs. Most common dose is 100 mgs. But here's the thing....if 200 mgs keeps you within range then there's nothing wrong with it at all bro. You have to take what you have to take!

I hear ya bro! I'm just wired to be a very curious and inquisitive soul so when others advance ideas or claims, I like to know where the idea or claim originated. This is indeed a very individual centered approach (TRT) as what works for one man may not work for another.

 

[kisaj]

By whose standard is this "very" high? 200mg is a common TRT dose. Also, this amount only puts me in the high end of normal range (856).

Honestly, 200mg weekly isn't common at all outside of clinics and docs that don't understand hormone therapy. If it s working for you, that is great, but I'd question how sustainable it is.

 

[sammpedd88]

I hear ya bro! I'm just wired to be a very curious and inquisitive soul so when others advance ideas or claims, I like to know where the idea or claim originated. This is indeed a very individual centered approach (TRT) as what works for one man may not work for another.

You're exactly right! That's why guys on TRT should not get hung up on numbers. Some guys do well in the upper range of T levels where some guys do better in the middle. It's ALL based on the person. BTW is saw where you don't take DHEA or pregnenolone. Just a recommendation....I would keep a eye on my levels in case they drop. Usually they do while on TRT. But if you're feeling great without it then I wouldn't dare add it until I needed to!

 

[Gutterpump]

Some people metabolize test faster but it's very rare. If 200mg of test puts you in range, then that's what you need. I've seen only a couple cases like this on here. Don't see it very often in people, but yes, a lot of clinics will automatically prescribe 200mg from the get go.

 

[C Dub805]

You're exactly right! That's why guys on TRT should not get hung up on numbers. Some guys do well in the upper range of T levels where some guys do better in the middle. It's ALL based on the person. BTW is saw where you don't take DHEA or pregnenolone. Just a recommendation....I would keep a eye on my levels in case they drop. Usually they do while on TRT. But if you're feeling great without it then I wouldn't dare add it until I needed to!

I feel amazing!

 

[C Dub805]

Some people metabolize test faster but it's very rare. If 200mg of test puts you in range, then that's what you need. I've seen only a couple cases like this on here. Don't see it very often in people, but yes, a lot of clinics will automatically prescribe 200mg from the get go.

I started at 100mg and titrated up to 200mg. I'm right where my doc thinks I should be and I certainly feel better here. My doc is definitely not an anti-aging clinic. Those places will give you 300mg per week no questions asked haha! I have yet to enter the supra physiologic realm on 200mg per week and those who claim they do baffles me, but then again, I can't really discount what another man says about himself and how he feels. I'm also one who will run a blast and cruise while on TRT so I've already made that decision to add more test to my TRT protocol a few times per year; albeit for short runs of 6-8 weeks. I've been in the power-building game for decades and have many close personal friends who have been abusing steroids for over 20 years. I'm not that guy, but I think there is a lot more fear instilled in all this than is truly corroborated by any evidence. That said, I still elect to stick to a more cautious protocol.

 

[C Dub805]

Honestly, 200mg weekly isn't common at all outside of clinics and docs that don't understand hormone therapy. If it s working for you, that is great, but I'd question how sustainable it is.

Indeed sir, but then I'd also question how sustainable 150mg per week is too.

 

[bighulksmash]

quick question. Being 31 and on trt is bad, i know . But what other options are there ?

 

[datsthat]

By whose standard is this "very" high? 200mg is a common TRT dose. Also, this amount only puts me in the high end of normal range (856).

I stand corrected. I said that 200mg is very high because of what I've read about other peoples doses and didn't think about each person's dose is independent upon the next person. Therefore, I apologize for my statement.

If 200mg works for you, then Rock on dude!!! I have my first blood work in 2 weeks. Who knows, maybe I may be similar to you and may need 200mg in order to hover around 1000-1200.

 

[datsthat]

quick question. Being 31 and on trt is bad, i know . But what other options are there ?

I currently feel that being on TRT at any age is fine as long as you truly need it. However, I believe if you ar young, then you should work with your doc to find the root cause of your low T. Then try to "fix" it prior to actually start testosterone treatment.

If you and your doc have done your due diligence to find root cause and came to conclusion that test treatment is necessary, then I don't know if there are any other options other.

 

[Gutterpump]

Being in your 30s on TRT is becoming more and more common. I had to go on at 32, didn't touch a single PH/AAS prior either, was from other causes.