Hit a wall and need some advice on sups

[ddavis1]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and could really use some advice. I'm 6'1" and 43 years old and I recently lost a ton of weight (went from 243 down to 185), but no matter what I try, I can't seem to lose the flab (mostly on my lower back and sides). I lost the weight over a period of 7 months and have been stuck at the same place for the last 6 months (plus or minus 5 lbs.). I have tried many combinations of weight training and cardio/HIIT; I'm currently lifting three days per week and doing low-intensity cardio two days. I believe I'm at about a 600 calorie deficit most days (consuming around 1650 per day) and I'm getting between 150 and 200 grams of protein every day. I usually train fasted in the early afternoon. I'm thinking it may be a hormonal imbalance, and want to know what a good starting place would be as far as supplements. Do you think an aromatase inhibitor and test booster would be a good place to start, or maybe a cortisol inhibitor? Also, if I went with something like Exotherm or Latrone, could I use it as a stand-alone product or would it be better to stack with something else for fat burning (and later for lean bulking)? I appreciate your shared insight.

 

[v4lu3s]

How much of the "flab" is loose skin that may take a long time to tighten back up?

 

[Gutterpump]

Have you tried carb cycling? Works for me for stubborn fat.

 

[ddavis1]

Hey guys. I appreciate your help with this. I don't think it's loose skin as it is thick (maybe an inch when pinched). It just won't go away.
I have tried carb cycling (maybe I wasn't doing it correctly). I tried going almost carb-free on non-lifting days and had fruit and oatmeal post workout on lifting days. I'm currently going carb free until dinner time every day in an effort to maximize fat-burning hormones, but even that doesn't seem to be working for me.

 

[Gutterpump]

Try going under 20g of carbs (trace carbs from veggies only) and high fat/protein for 2 weeks before doing a 24hour high carb / high protein / low fat refeed, then keep repeating this. Should work like a charm. Keep you cals where they should be too, and even try extra deficits on some off days.

 

[ddavis1]

I haven't tried going that long before (mainly due to dinner with family), but will give it a go. I probably already go under 20 grams several days per week, just not consecutive days. That might explain why my weight keeps fluctuating between 180-190. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Jebrook]

Given your age, have you ever had your baseline hormonal levels checked? This would be great info to have. This would really help to determine whether to use an AI, test booster, etc.

 

[Driven2lift]

Diet should lose the weight for you here...

I would never drop it lower than it is though.
A hormone panel including test, free T, and TSH/T3 could be useful.

I wouldn't look to supplements as any kind of fix to this until you've found the root issue.

 

[ddavis1]

No, I haven't had it checked. I just assumed that my testosterone was low since diet and exercise got me to this point and then my progress seemingly halted. I figured if the cost was similar I might as well try something like an estrogen blocker or AI to see if it helped, but it would be good to know my baseline numbers. I'll look into the test. Thanks.

 

[Gutterpump]

I just looked at your training. You definitely have room to ramp up the cardio. Treat it like weight training, don't let your cardio stall, consistently do more each week, ramp up time and/or intensity, over time... This will help you to break through a weight loss plateau. That, plus only doing a carb up every two weeks, should definitely work. Keep a cardio log same as if you'd be doing a strength log.

 

[ddavis1]

So do you recommend replacing strength training with circuits (could still lift heavy I suppose, just less volume)? Or maybe do speed circuits on some days and heavy sets on others?

 

[Driven2lift]

I would keep strength training.
To up your heart rate you could just add in some supersets if you wanted to

Cardio on top if you want additional calorie burn as well. IMO this is simplest

 

[ddavis1]

Cool, I've been trying to reduce time between sets already, but I can bust out the old heart rate monitor to be sure I'm keeping HR elevated while continuing to lift heavy. I appreciate all of the advice...

 

[kisaj]

Yep, keep up strength training, reduce time between sets (45-60 sec), focus on large compound movement, get a hormone panel (and not just total test, full hormone with cortisol, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone, and CBC/lipids), and don't start adding in OTC supplements until you know your baseline numbers.

 

[Gutterpump]

So do you recommend replacing strength training with circuits (could still lift heavy I suppose, just less volume)? Or maybe do speed circuits on some days and heavy sets on others?

Definitely keep up strength training. You could break it up how I do it. I start off with strength training (low reps, heavy weight, longer rest periods) and get that out of the way, then I move into my volume work, with minimal rest periods, plus supersets added in. Then I finish off with cardio. I don't like removing strength training from my programming even if I'm cutting/recomping.

On my off days, I do sprints on the rower, steady state on the rower, prowler pushes, etc...(you can do hill sprints too) all depending on how I'm feeling/recovering, but I usually ramp up intensity over time. I don't step on the treadmill anymore.

 

[ddavis1]

The treadmill has been my go-to for LISS on off days, but I do like the idea of hill sprints. I'll definitely incorporate some more HIIT exercises.

I will also schedule the hormone panel. Thanks again for all of the advice guys.

 

[Driven2lift]

HIIT is great, and can be done with any kind of cardio really.
Even a stationary bike.

Best of luck brother

 

[Dustin07]

I'm 6'1" and 43 years old and I recently lost a ton of weight (went from 243 down to 185), but no matter what I try, I can't seem to lose the flab (mostly on my lower back and sides).

I have tried many combinations of weight training and cardio/HIIT; I'm currently lifting three days per week and doing low-intensity cardio two days. I believe I'm at about a 600 calorie deficit most days (consuming around 1650 per day) and I'm getting between 150 and 200 grams of protein every day.

I usually train fasted in the early afternoon. I'm thinking it may be a hormonal imbalance, and want to know what a good starting place would be as far as supplements. .

I really dislike training fasted. I think its a bad idea and catabolic. I feel like you're undoing your muscular development. plus, you're just decreasing your potential intensity in the gym. center your carbs around your workout. I also don't like excessively low carb diets, I think there is a better balance to be had. lastly, it sounds like you've found your body's "happy" or maintenance level so you'll need to up your output and intensity to take it to the next level.

I can't provide much better feedback without seeing a picture to gauge bf% and seeing your workouts to gauge intensity.

 

[kisaj]

You need to better understand fasted training because it is very effective and is not catabolic at all when done correctly.

 

[Dustin07]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and could really use some advice. I'm 6'1" and 43 years old and I recently lost a ton of weight (went from 243 down to 185), but no matter what I try, I can't seem to lose the flab (mostly on my lower back and sides). I lost the weight over a period of 7 months and have been stuck at the same place for the last 6 months (plus or minus 5 lbs.). I have tried many combinations of weight training and cardio/HIIT; I'm currently lifting three days per week and doing low-intensity cardio two days. I believe I'm at about a 600 calorie deficit most days (consuming around 1650 per day) and I'm getting between 150 and 200 grams of protein every day. I usually train fasted in the early afternoon. I'm thinking it may be a hormonal imbalance, and want to know what a good starting place would be as far as supplements. Do you think an aromatase inhibitor and test booster would be a good place to start, or maybe a cortisol inhibitor? Also, if I went with something like Exotherm or Latrone, could I use it as a stand-alone product or would it be better to stack with something else for fat burning (and later for lean bulking)? I appreciate your shared insight.

do you have a workout log created somewhere that we could see? I'd like to see what those three lifting days look like.

 

[ddavis1]

I have since changed to a 4-day routine and have been pretty steadily increasing weight on every lift. I have been doing one slow (0/3/3/0) set to failure on every exercise to avoid excessive damage that would be hard to repair in a deficit. This is my most recent info:
Mon & Thu:
Leg Press: 310 for 12 reps
Leg Ext: 145 for 10 reps
Leg Curl: 130 for 12 reps
Bench: 220 for 9 reps
Lat Pulldown: 235 for 10 reps
Cable Row: 175 for 10 reps
Mil Press: 125 for 10 reps
Preacher Curls: 140 for 9 reps
Triceps Extention: 140 for 10 reps
Hyper Ext: 12 at a 0/5/5/0 cadence
Crunches: 12 at a 0/5/5/0 cadence

Tue & Fri:
Lateral raise: 25s for 8 reps
Inclined DB press 25s for 8 reps
DB Pullover: 35s for 12 reps
Cable crossover: 35 for 12 reps
Triceps rope ext: 140 for 10 reps
Hammer Curl: 140 for 11 reps
Romanian Deadlift: 255 for 10 reps

I seem to be responding better than higher weights with lower reps (my weight still isn't really changing, but I am steadily increasing the weight/reps when I couldn't before), but any pointers are definately appreciated.

 

[ddavis1]

I have fudged the 0/3/3/0 cadence on the leg press and bench press due to bad exertion headaches over the past couple of weeks. I don't get them when I lift a little faster on those two exercises.

 

[ddavis1]

Sorry, one other update; where I typed incline DB press above, it should read incline DB flys. Tuesday's and Friday's are all isolation exercises. I am keeping the same weight until I hit 12 reps and then increasing it (trying to stay between 8-12).

 

[kenpoengineer]

No disrespect but your volume is way too low per muscle group. There are a ton of lifting programs that you could use. Look into Stronglifts, 5x5, Starting Strength, GVT, etc. For me a higher volume program works well.

 

[ddavis1]

I tried Strong Lifts and reverse pyramids in the past when trying to increase strength, but reasoned that lower volume would be better to avoid excessive catabolism with a moderate deficit. As I am lifting 4 days per week, I am still hitting each muscle group about 4 times per week. Do you think a 5x5 set/ rep scheme with more of an A/B/C routine each week would be a safe bet? I just figured that using every muscle in my body and going to failure once per day would be enough to let my body know it needs to retain the mass I already have without causing more damage than I could recover from in a deficit. That is just my assumption though, I thought it would be worth a try. I appreciate the advice as I am feeling my way through this process still.

 

[Dustin07]

do you have any physical limitations that keep you from squatting? If not, I'd learn how to squat properly and ditch the leg press. I think you could possibly benefit from the big compound movements which will tax your full body and help build mass. at 6'1 and 185 you're already a bit on the light side and i think your body is ripe for some muscular development. that will not only make you look leaner, but will increase your metabolic baseline.

what time of day do you lift?

like Ken mentioned, starting strength might be good. with a starting strength program you'll be using:

squats, deadlifts, press, bench press, power cleans.

and in addition to those, you can add specific and appropriate isolation movements.

 

[ddavis1]

I work out on my lunch breaks (around noon) and fast (except for BCAA) until post training. Unfortunately, my gym has Smith machines in place of squat racks (at least the one near my workplace; I also have a YMCA membership, but it's too far to squeeze in a proper workout on my breaks). I have to take my daughter to various events most evenings, so lunchtime is pretty much what I have to work with. I will look into Starting Strength. While it isn't optimal, I suppose Smith machines are better than leg/chest press machines.

Thanks

 

[ddavis1]

Just an update; I've actually gained 14 lbs since my initial post. I'm sure it's mostly water since I started adding post workout carbs (I'm still in a theoretical deficit, but may have hosed my metabolism by going too low calorie for too long). I have been averaging 1800-2000 calories over the last few weeks as indicated by the My Fitness Pal app, but since my waist measurement only went up about an inch and my strength seems to be improving, some of it has to be muscle. I was advised to slowly increase my daily calories until I hit maintenance and then slowly cut back down in an effort to reset my metabolism, but the weight has been gaining quickly. Maybe if I concentrate on a leaner bulk with higher volume as you suggested, the love handles and lower back fat won't be as noticeable. I will try another skin-fold test in the morning to see how my body fat is trending but I always get very different results when comparing the different calculations (4 points vs 9 points, etc.). As of this morning I was at 199.6 lbs with a 34.25" waist.

 

[ddavis1]

In reading over the above posts, I feel some clarification is needed: where I wrote that my weight isn't really changing above, I meant the amount of weight I am lifting hasn't drastically changed, but is slowly and steadily increasing. My body weight has increased significantly over the past few weeks. Again, I'm sure it's mostly water (and some fat) as the biggest jump was shortly after introducing the post-workout carbs (I ate very few prior to that). My diet previously consisted of around 1600 calories per day with around 190 grams of protein, and around 65 grams of carbs and fat. I am now around 200 grams protein, 65 grams of fat and 120-150 grams of carbs. I guess I haven't found my sweet spot yet.

 

[Dustin07]

I feel for you, the kid juggling can make the workouts a little more challenging. my wife and i know that game well.

are your Romanian deadlifts with a barbell then? could you replace one of those days with barbell squats if that's at the other gym? I have two gym memberships as well. mon-fri I lift at a crossfit box and on sat/sun I go to a 24hr fitness.

Could you fit in a short run in the mornings before getting ready for work? like 2 miles? I keep a spin bike in my garage and will use that at times to add 30 minutes of cardio when I'm trying to cut. I'll usually do like 15 minutes warmup, 10 minutes of 30seconds on/30 seconds off HIIT, then 5 minutes cool down. its low impact and effective.

 

[Dustin07]

your workouts are very much isolation based. if we can find a way to get you to focus your energy and output on the explosive compound full body movements you will get more bang for your buck i think.

 

[ddavis1]

My Romanian Deadlifts are done on a Smith machine. No barbells at this "gym"... I have lost a ton of weight there (and added a few pounds of muscle), but perhaps I have outgrown that gym. I'll see what other options are available in the area. Even though they don't compare to free weights, I do various presses (leg, chest &shoulder), and rows/pull-up movements. I suppose that during a cut, I should drop most of the isolation work though.

 

[Dustin07]

did you say you guesstimate your BF to be 17% right now? (i'm guessing based upon the 200/165 numbers). that's a pretty healthy bodyfat for a male. if you're trying to get down to 10% or so then you'll probably just need a more aggressive gym and approach to physical output. totally doable, just means youre going to the next level.

 

[ddavis1]

I honestly don't know what my BF% is; I was just guessing. I will try the calipers again in the morning, but I always get a wide range of possibilities depending on the number of sites checked and the formulas available online. Any idea which is the most accurate? I can also try to post a couple pictures, but 17% could very well be right.

 

[ddavis1]

Took these at the gym today. Most of it is around my lower back, abdomen and sides. After I dropped from 234 to 185ish, I seemed to stall with this... Of course, I'm back up to 200 lbs now, but I don't think I look much different than last month's 185 (another reason I think it is mostly just water weight I gained).

 

[ddavis1]

BTW this is the closest I have ever been to abs in my life. Having always been a bit pudgy, I would love to get to that point. It just seems that when I get to a certain point, my otherwise very fast progress halts.

 

[Dustin07]

you had a solid back and a great v taper. I'd bet your BF guess wasn't too far off. I also think getting you to that next level is just about dialing in the nutrition and upping the intensity in the gym as we mentioned. you've done very very well so far.

 

[ddavis1]

Thanks... Now if I can just lose that spare tire, I'll be on track... I appreciate your advice.

 

[CorpKiller]

You look good. I am 45 and have the same lower back fat issue as well. Keep up the hard work.

 

[ddavis1]

Thanks. I am going to try another (more controlled) cut as soon as my metabolism levels out; I really think I messed myself up by going too low with the calories for too long. I will probably try a 500 - 750 calorie deficit for no more than 8 weeks and replace my Tuesday/Friday routine with circuits and/or crossfit as recommended and keep my main lifts on Mondays and Thursday's as heavy as I can to retain as much muscle as I can. I am definately in better shape than I have ever been in, but I am determined to find a way to lose the love handles... Seeing my abs at least for a short time is on my bucket list...

 

[LCSULLA]

If I was you I would do two things. One get a blood panel. Might have low test and high estrogen. The second is hire someone to take all the thinking out of the equation for you. I spun my wheels for years. Getting big was never my issues, but I could never get below 13%. And once I did...I would rebound back up to 20%. So I hired someone to give me the workout, diet based on my goals. Now each cut is easier and easier.
S

 

[ddavis1]

Thanks for the tip. I'm waiting for the results of my blood work (just had it drawn again on Friday as Quest Diagnostic apparently didn't test for that as requested the first time a few weeks ago). It will be nice to know if low test or high Estrogen is the culprit; it seems like I have tried every set/rep scheme out there. Even tried hill sprints every other morning a while back and I always hit a wall at about the same place. If the blood test doesn't uncover any low-hanging fruit, I will look into some professional assistance (I'm just concerned about the cost of any ongoing program).

 

[LCSULLA]

I would find someone online who you see has experience working with what your goals are. I've hired two people in my life to help train me. The first one was pretty famous for his contest prep work. This was 2003ish I guess. He gave my ex and I full workout and macros to follow. I lost no body fat...nothing. I weighed and measure my food and recorded it...but I lost nothing. My ex got lean and strong. Me and him argued all the time. I said he set my cals too high I thought. But he said I wasn't buying in enough. Needless to say I stopped paying him.
Then I hired another guy who fit more with what I was looking for a few years ago and I lost fat and gained some muscle. Got down to a 31 waist, while only losing 15lbs.
Most online trainers are reasonable priced I find. You can buy bulk months at a discount rate.

Good luck!

 

[baldymcgee]

You might want to look into some of the news products from Evomuse like Epitome, Rebirth, Basic and Brite. The first 3 target the leptin pathway and Brite is a product that targets PPAR and fat browning. Really good stuff and cutting edge.

 

[Dustin07]

http://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/the-facts-on-leptin-faq

 

[baldymcgee]

http://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/the-facts-on-leptin-faq

Nice article from 2010

 

[Dustin07]

Nice article from 2010

everyone wants to solve their problems with some pill or supplement. its just diet and exercise. human genetics haven't changed. If you want to go from being a weekend warrior to a stage ready athlete then the output needs to increase substantially and the diet needs to be dialed down like a hawk. eating whatever the family is eating every night isn't going to get you ripped no matter how many BS pharmaceutical placebos you shove down your gullet.