Advice needed

[Meloncap78]

Hi guys, first post here. I have a bit of a story. I am 36 years old 6'2" 209 pounds 18-20% bodyfat. I have been Lifting about 3 years (1.5 seriously). First year and a half I just kind of threw weight around and ate what I wanted. The point is I never got anywhere (obviously). Then I started to realize that I had to get the right calories and started researching my needs etc. once I got more serious and strict about things I started to put on a little bit of size but nothing like what you see in the noob gains dept. I put most of my size on the first 4 months into my "new leaf". I was eating at maintenance at that point. After 4 months I was not able to progress any further. So I started searching around and was told I needed to be eating above maintenance consistently to see results. So in the past few months I put together a diet and stuck with it. My lifts all progressed in the gym and the end result up to this point is a ton of belly fat. I haven't gained size anywhere else. Chest, arm and shoulder measurements are still the same as they have been the past year. As I said ALL of my lifts have gone up. Here is what my diet has been the past few months.


Breakfast:
2 cups whole milk
1 cup oats
2tbls olive oil
2 scoops NOW whey isolate
2 hardboiled eggs
1230 calories
88g protein
78g carbs
61g fats

Lunch (pre workout)
1 can pink salmon
2tbls mayo
4 slices bread
800 calories
50g protein
53g carbs
34g fats

Snack (post workout)
1 cup whole milk
2 scoops NOW whey isolate
1 avocado medium (by weight)
630 calories
62g protein
27g carbs
32g fats

Dinner
12oz boneless skinless chicken breast
Sweet potato 200grams (sometimes more)
2tbls i cant believe its not butter
752 calories
87g protein
40g carbs
26g fats

Snack
1 cup plain greek yogurt
1cup whole milk
1 cup oats
610 calories
38g protein
85g carbs
14 grams fats

Totals
4022 calories
325g protein
283g carbs
167g fat

I followed Jim Stopanni's shortcut to size while on my bulk and progressed strengthwise but not size-wise (only in the belly). I guess I am just a bit frustrated at this point and feel like I should be progressed further. I can't seem to spark any growth and the caloric surplus just makes me fat. The even more frustrating part is the $$ it costs to eat clean and being so strict and it hasn't paid off. I was thinking about a test only cycle but not at this bodyfat. I am at a deficit now attempting to drop the fat but I am experiencing a serious loss of strength as well. I think I have put on minimal LBM the past few years and I am still pretty skinny under the fat. I have attached a few pics. The first one is before I started lifting at all (don't mind my crazy wife in the pic. The rest are current.

 

[elmatth1]

You sound exactly like me six months ago!!! I'm not an expert by any means, so take this advice with a grain of salt. That seems like a ton of calories, I'm not suprised you're gaining fat. I've made the most strength and size gains than I ever have when I started doing the Stronglifts 5x5 workout. I tried several workouts like the Jim Stopanni shortcut to size and got only fair results. Once I added all of the squats and deadlifts from the 5x5 workout (I added a few other excersizes, like pull-ups, chin-ups) I started really gaining strength and size! I'm in my 4th week of a DMZ cycle right now and it's getting even better! I'm sure the more knowledgeable guys on here will chime in with some advice, though.

 

[Meloncap78]

B

You sound exactly like me six months ago!!! I'm not an expert by any means, so take this advice with a grain of salt. That seems like a ton of calories, I'm not suprised you're gaining fat. I've made the most strength and size gains than I ever have when I started doing the Stronglifts 5x5 workout. I tried several workouts like the Jim Stopanni shortcut to size and got only fair results. Once I added all of the squats and deadlifts from the 5x5 workout (I added a few other excersizes, like pull-ups, chin-ups) I started really gaining strength and size! I'm in my 4th week of a DMZ cycle right now and it's getting even better! I'm sure the more knowledgeable guys on here will chime in with some advice, though.

Yea I have cut my caloriess back to 2350 and have dropped almost 10 pounds the past 2 weeks (assuming water and waste). I may have to check out stronglifts for sure. As I stated, with Stoppani's workout I did increase strength in my lifts but no size. I would love to drop another couple % BF which I am sure I could do in the next 30 days or so and give a test e cycle a try. I already have nolva, chlomid and adex on hand (buddy was going to do a cycle, picked up all the ancillaries and decided against it). I figure at that time I could bump my calories up to maybe 100 over maintenance and lift hard.

 

[kisaj]

I don't know what you are doing for actual activity, but that is a lot of calories. You are eating like you are on a bulk and if you aren't using all of it, it will turn to fat. Also, I'd personally drop those carbs a bit and up the (good) fats.

I am throwing a vote in for rest pause training and HIIT.

 

[Meloncap78]

I don't know what you are doing for actual activity, but that is a lot of calories. You are eating like you are on a bulk and if you aren't using all of it, it will turn to fat. Also, I'd personally drop those carbs a bit and up the (good) fats.

I am throwing a vote in for rest pause training and HIIT.

I was on a bulk. I have since cut my calories to 2350 trying to shed the fat. I work in a warehouse 9 hour a night running around picking orders, wrapping pallets and loading trucks. Other than that I do no cardio.

 

[Billy R]

You don't explain what kind of lifting you do. Do you lift heavy weights? If you regularly lift relatively light weights,it's going to be much harder for you to gain size. Personally, I usually lift heavy enough weights that I can only manage 8-10 reps before its too hard to do another.

 

[Meloncap78]

Alternate. On heavy low reps off lighter more reps. I have progressed in weight slowly but steadily since I started. I just feel like I should have gained more size but maybe I am being too hasty. Got my test E cycle in place. Got adex and nolva on hand. I will wait another month on my cut and then see where my BF is. If I am below 15% I will srart my cycle.

 

[threeFs]

I agree carbs too high but also total calories. Use a calorie tracker app to keep you honest. It's 80% diet

 

[Billy R]

While I agree with you that there is still work to be done, the difference between your starting picture and your current pictures is pretty startling. In my opinion you have made good progress doing what you're doing. How long ago was the picture with your wife taken?

Alternate. On heavy low reps off lighter more reps. I have progressed in weight slowly but steadily since I started. I just feel like I should have gained more size but maybe I am being too hasty. Got my test E cycle in place. Got adex and nolva on hand. I will wait another month on my cut and then see where my BF is. If I am below 15% I will srart my cycle.

 

[Meloncap78]

While I agree with you that there is still work to be done, the difference between your starting picture and your current pictures is pretty startling. In my opinion you have made good progress doing what you're doing. How long ago was the picture with your wife taken?

About 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Billy R]

You've made fantastic progress, you don't even look like the same person. Keep at it.

About 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Meloncap78]

You've made fantastic progress, you don't even look like the same person. Keep at it.

Thanks man. I just wish my BF would magically drop to like 12%. I am going into my 5th week on this deficit and I am at 199 this morning. I don't see a real big difference in my waist other than the bloat is gone. It seems as if I have lost size on my extremities and chest. Lost close to an inch on my arms and almost 2 on my chest. I'm still going as hard as I can in the gym but some days it's tough. I don't know how much further into a cut I want to go. I got my bloodwork done awhile back and my free test numbers were in the bottom 3rd of the range. Before I even consider starting my first cycle I will be requesting full panel. I am also nervous about ancillaries. I would prefer to be old school without HCG if possible and no AI unless absolutely necessary. The less drugs the better. My goal is going to be to bump back to maintenance and then hit 3-500 above by week 4 on cycle. I robbed myself of real gains by wasting my young test loaded body on partying and booze....sigh. Here are pics from yesterday as an update.

 

[jaces]

Ok im 260pounds and thats how much I eat to bulk , but imo u eat to much prot in the form of shakes and milk ,, ditch most of the milk and only consume a max of 2 shakes , I would also rather make the meals smaler and ad another meal time

 

[Meloncap78]

Ok im 260pounds and thats how much I eat to bulk , but imo u eat to much prot in the form of shakes and milk ,, ditch most of the milk and only consume a max of 2 shakes , I would also rather make the meals smaler and ad another meal time

I have cut the shakes down to 2 small a day. 2 shakes (1 pre and 1 post WO) Each having 8oz 2% milk, half cup oats and 1 half serving whee isolate. Everything else is now coming from whole foods. The uncomfortable bloat on my bulk had to be from 32oz or better of whole milk everyday.

 

[kisaj]

You keep mentioning your arms, chest, and shoulders, but not anything involving your posterior chain- you know, the big muscles. What are you doing regarind workouts for legs and back? Working that will increase size everywhere and help cut fat throughout. Concentrating on your upper body is going to give you 50% results.

 

[jaces]

You keep mentioning your arms, chest, and shoulders, but not anything involving your posterior chain- you know, the big muscles. What are you doing regarind workouts for legs and back? Working that will increase size everywhere and help cut fat throughout. Concentrating on your upper body is going to give you 50% results.

This is so true , the anabolic hormone response u get frm training these muscle wl help you build muscle or cut fat ,,

 

[Billy R]

Be Patient, Life is a marathon, not a sprint. You'll get there.

Thanks man. I just wish my BF would magically drop to like 12%. I am going into my 5th week on this deficit and I am at 199 this morning. I don't see a real big difference in my waist other than the bloat is gone. It seems as if I have lost size on my extremities and chest. Lost close to an inch on my arms and almost 2 on my chest. I'm still going as hard as I can in the gym but some days it's tough. I don't know how much further into a cut I want to go. I got my bloodwork done awhile back and my free test numbers were in the bottom 3rd of the range. Before I even consider starting my first cycle I will be requesting full panel. I am also nervous about ancillaries. I would prefer to be old school without HCG if possible and no AI unless absolutely necessary. The less drugs the better. My goal is going to be to bump back to maintenance and then hit 3-500 above by week 4 on cycle. I robbed myself of real gains by wasting my young test loaded body on partying and booze....sigh. Here are pics from yesterday as an update.

 

[Meloncap78]

You keep mentioning your arms, chest, and shoulders, but not anything involving your posterior chain- you know, the big muscles. What are you doing regarind workouts for legs and back? Working that will increase size everywhere and help cut fat throughout. Concentrating on your upper body is going to give you 50% results.

Sorry. I work legs once a week. 3 sets squats, 3 sets leg press, 3 sets leg curls, 3 sets leg extentions and calves. I also throw calves in on wednesdays just to hit them twice in a week. My calves genetically suck. Back days I hit rack pulls for 3 sets, wide grip pull downs, dumbell rows or barbell rows (switch it up), close grip pulldown and low cable rows. I definitely don't neglect the lower half. I have also lost almost an inch on my quads but I can see some more definition in them. Here is a pic before I started cutting. Quads were 25" when bulking, down to 24 1/8 now which is still pretty small for a guy almost 6'2. Calves suck at 14 1/4 they just won't grow. I hit them with seated and standing raises for high reps until failure. They are always sore as hell for days after but just never grow. They didn't grow even an 8th of an inch on my bulk.

 

[kisaj]

Ok, good to hear.

Suggestion- stop the deficit and work into a recomp plan, add in HIIT, and consider training fasted (if that fits into your schedule). Right now it sounds like your goal is not maximizing strength or size, but a deficit is always difficult when you are trying to maintain. A recomp can accomplish this and keep your strength and mass. Obviously, you do need to cut the calories as mentioned multiple times.

 

[jaces]

Sorry. I work legs once a week. 3 sets squats, 3 sets leg press, 3 sets leg curls, 3 sets leg extentions and calves. I also throw calves in on wednesdays just to hit them twice in a week. My calves genetically suck. Back days I hit rack pulls for 3 sets, wide grip pull downs, dumbell rows or barbell rows (switch it up), close grip pulldown and low cable rows. I definitely don't neglect the lower half. I have also lost almost an inch on my quads but I can see some more definition in them. Here is a pic before I started cutting. Quads were 25" when bulking, down to 24 1/8 now which is still pretty small for a guy almost 6'2. Calves suck at 14 1/4 they just won't grow. I hit them with seated and standing raises for high reps until failure. They are always sore as hell for days after but just never grow. They didn't grow even an 8th of an inch on my bulk.

Do 2-3 sets of 30 rest pause sets of calve raises after each workout

 

[Meloncap78]

Ok, good to hear.

Suggestion- stop the deficit and work into a recomp plan, add in HIIT, and consider training fasted (if that fits into your schedule). Right now it sounds like your goal is not maximizing strength or size, but a deficit is always difficult when you are trying to maintain. A recomp can accomplish this and keep your strength and mass. Obviously, you do need to cut the calories as mentioned multiple times.

Actually my goal is mass but I was advised that bulking or trying to put any further mass on at a bodyfat of 17-20% is not advisable. Acording to a 7 point caliper I am 17%. I would love to start adding some serious mass without getting up into the 20's.

 

[jaces]

Actually my goal is mass but I was advised that bulking or trying to put any further mass on at a bodyfat of 17-20% is not advisable. Acording to a 7 point caliper I am 17%. I would love to start adding some serious mass without getting up into the 20's.

Would recomend u get to 12% first , added bf screws up your hormones

 

[Rodja]

This is so true , the anabolic hormone response u get frm training these muscle wl help you build muscle or cut fat ,,

Not really. The response is more or less negligible.

Sorry. I work legs once a week. 3 sets squats, 3 sets leg press, 3 sets leg curls, 3 sets leg extentions and calves. I also throw calves in on wednesdays just to hit them twice in a week. My calves genetically suck. Back days I hit rack pulls for 3 sets, wide grip pull downs, dumbell rows or barbell rows (switch it up), close grip pulldown and low cable rows. I definitely don't neglect the lower half. I have also lost almost an inch on my quads but I can see some more definition in them. Here is a pic before I started cutting. Quads were 25" when bulking, down to 24 1/8 now which is still pretty small for a guy almost 6'2. Calves suck at 14 1/4 they just won't grow. I hit them with seated and standing raises for high reps until failure. They are always sore as hell for days after but just never grow. They didn't grow even an 8th of an inch on my bulk.

Sub in either SLDL or good mornings instead of leg curls.

Ok, good to hear. Suggestion- stop the deficit and work into a recomp plan, add in HIIT, and consider training fasted (if that fits into your schedule). Right now it sounds like your goal is not maximizing strength or size, but a deficit is always difficult when you are trying to maintain. A recomp can accomplish this and keep your strength and mass. Obviously, you do need to cut the calories as mentioned multiple times.

This.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think you've received some good advice here, but I also looked through some other post you have where you complain about being lethargic, being a slow starter, etc. - and in this post you say your lifts have come up steadily but you haven't gained size. In another post you say you've hit a plateau.

Can you give us some detail on your training routine? For the big lifts - Deadlift, squats, bench, military presses, bent over rows - what did you start with for weight 14 months ago and where are you now? How long have you been on a plateau and have you noticed any reduction in reps/weight?

How often do you train? 4 times/week?

I think a few things COULD be going on. One - you appear to have made decent progress in 4 years. Most people have unrealistic expectations of what they can accomplish in a year - "I am going to put on 30 pounds of muscle this year", etc. - It just doesn't happen like that. After your first year, if you put on 5-10 pounds in a year you are doing very well. And as was mentioned above, you look way different in your pictures above. The photo with your wife....you look very thin. Now....you look like you might be able to **** some **** up. Over 4 years, you've made good progress.

Now, over the past 14 months, I bet that has slowed...gains get harder and harder after you reach certain points.

I think your expectations coupled with the fact that progress is slowing, is making you see things as being worse than they are. KEEP GOING.

When is the last time you've taken 2-3 weeks off from training? I guess I'm kind of the resident over-training scare-monger, but I bet you may be surprised also if you take a couple weeks off and then come back fresh.

Beyond this, I agree with almost everything above....so I don't see the need to repeat it all.

 

[TheChosen1]

Breakfast:
2 cups whole milk
1 cup oats
2tbls olive oil
2 scoops NOW whey isolate
2 hardboiled eggs
1230 calories <<<The breakfast isn't bad but drop your fats a little by replacing the milk with low fat or non-fat milk
88g protein
78g carbs
61g fats

Lunch (pre workout)
1 can pink salmon
2tbls mayo
4 slices bread
800 calories <<<If you must use mayo (God knows I do), use low fat.
50g protein
53g carbs
34g fats

Snack (post workout)
1 cup whole milk <<< Again, use low or non-fat milk
2 scoops NOW whey isolate
1 avocado medium (by weight)
630 calories
62g protein
27g carbs
32g fats

Dinner
12oz boneless skinless chicken breast
Sweet potato 200grams (sometimes more)
2tbls i cant believe its not butter
752 calories
87g protein
40g carbs
26g fats

Snack
1 cup plain greek yogurt
1cup whole milk <<< I think you know where I'm going with this....lol
1 cup oats
610 calories
38g protein
85g carbs
14 grams fats

Totals
4022 calories
325g protein
283g carbs
167g fat

Although your bodyfat is pretty low, you'd want to keep it that way. Any fat can ruin your training and diet.

 

[kisaj]

What? Please explain further about your comment on fat before I pass judgement.

 

[TheChosen1]

I've been training with weights (powerlifting & fitness) for almost 30 years now. All of my time when using protein shakes and certain supplements, I've read (mind you, the internet wasn't around in 1985) that it's best to replace whole fat milk with skim or non-fat milk. Since then, it's all that I use. In fact, I'd get sick drinking all fat milk. I've gotten used to skim or non-fat milk. Now however, I've gone to lactose free, as well.