TRT or HRT? not the same?

[Yolked]

Well I'm considering this and going to try a different approach to my HRT... testosterone isn't the best option for my current health issues. With a microdisctectomy under belt(pun intended lmao) and several degenerative disc's in lower back I could benefit from some soft tissue regeneration and joint lubrication. Knees are feeling the crunch from 500lbs squats and 900lbs leg presses from back in the day. I've used deca in low doses in past and know its benefits for joints but research shows EQ is better for collagen regeneration. The AI's to deal with aromatization issues (I never had back in the day either) seems to effect my already achy joints.. so new approach. A non or very low aromatizing hormone that will boost general health and help soft tissue regeneration. I loved Primobolin, laurabolin, nandrolones and EQ cuz at low doses(100mg every 5days) after a few weeks it built up in my system and don't need much more. they just made me feel good.. boosted appetite, recovery, libido and general well being. With nandrolones or EQ usually onboard no wonder I never had sore joints. Of course I've used much more on more serious cycles... but that was so long ago. So I'm adding EQ to the mix at 100mg a week. I'll reduce the andropen to 55mg(from68.75) every 3.5days. I'm not sure how I'll respond but I'll continue Tribulus 3x day and the topical Chrysin I recently discovered helps aromatization..

 

[Gutterpump]

I've had 2 shoulder injuries and 2 back injuries and have been using EQ fairly long term. I just make sure to give blood (double red donation). I've read that there have been studies with Dbol and it's effects on regeneration of damaged discs, properly studied reports of this, and now I'm also curious to try low dose Dbol for extended periods to see how it helps my back.

 

[fueledpassion]

I know I'm biased but when it comes to healing, I cant say enough about localized effects of GHS peptides and unpegged MGF. They do exactly what ur looking for.

While EQ, DECA etc would be more fun, if ur really just looking for healing of joints then GH peps are the way to go.

Granted, this is only a good option if u are 100% sure about the quality of ur peps. Chinese grade doesnt count, lol.

 

[Hyde]

fueledpassion is running topical formestane (specifically, Formabolic) right now as his AI of choice, & it's holding down trestolone, which aromatizes with the best of them. People seem to have considerably less joint issues w/ it than the non-steroidal AIs, & libido seems to benefit slightly from it as well. Perhaps a good option if the test/eq combo starts to demand some AI. Hopefully he can elaborate with some firsthand experience here.

 

[Hyde]

Apparently low-dose deca is quite cruisable, btw - superbeast668 seemed to be much happier w/ his joints at 300mg or so/wk.

 

[Yolked]

I've had 2 shoulder injuries and 2 back injuries and have been using EQ fairly long term. I just make sure to give blood (double red donation). I've read that there have been studies with Dbol and it's effects on regeneration of damaged discs, properly studied reports of this, and now I'm also curious to try low dose Dbol for extended periods to see how it helps my back.

Hmm.. dbol is just mythelated EQ.. interesting.

 

[fueledpassion]

@fueledpassion is running topical formestane (specifically, Formabolic) right now as his AI of choice, & it's holding down trestolone, which aromatizes with the best of them. People seem to have considerably less joint issues w/ it than the non-steroidal AIs, & libido seems to benefit slightly from it as well. Perhaps a good option if the test/eq combo starts to demand some AI. Hopefully he can elaborate with some firsthand experience here.

Interestingly, the longer I take the Formabolic, the more effective it is becoming at a lower dose. I've heard of speculative suggestions that Formestane lowers SHBG, which I believe, but this shouldn't matter as Trestolone does not bind to SHBG...

But let's not get distracted from the original topic. I will be providing a detailed summary later this summer on:

Trestolone Acetate and Formabolic
Desoxy T Cyp

And some other goodies like IM L-Carnitine and various protocols that I am using to get peeled for a show in October..

 

[Yolked]

Apparently low-dose deca is quite cruisable, btw - superbeast668 seemed to be much happier w/ his joints at 300mg or so/wk.

Ooh.. I'm leary of running deca over 200mg/wk. EQ hits the androgen receptors better than deca but deca seems to lubricate better but not as much synthesis. EQ seems to cause deca dick as well but not quite as fast.. give and take... thanks about the formestane info.. seems to be the best AI all around. But really impressed with the "homemade" topical cyrysin I'm using.

 

[fueledpassion]

Ooh.. I'm leary of running deca over 200mg/wk. EQ hits the androgen receptors better than deca but deca seems to lubricate better but not as much synthesis. EQ seems to cause deca dick as well but not quite as fast.. give and take...

Hmmm, I ran it with Mast E years ago and it did just the opposite. Sex drive was out of control..

 

[Hyde]

Ooh.. I'm leary of running deca over 200mg/wk. EQ hits the androgen receptors better than deca but deca seems to lubricate better but not as much synthesis. EQ seems to cause deca dick as well but not quite as fast.. give and take...

Hopefully he chimes in with his experience. I THOUGHT he ran it for 4 months or so. I know he switched over to Test/Tren blend of 100/100mg per wk, & has since switched to pinning Trestolone Ace at 12.5mg/day & now 25 like fueledpassion, I believe. But he was rolling on deca solo for a bit.

 

[Yolked]

Hmmm, I ran it with Mast E years ago and it did just the opposite. Sex drive was out of control..

Oh anything with masteron will turn you into a porn star... lol. Stacked with a strong androgen and deca is great... When I was younger I ran it solo at low doses <200mg and never had issues but I'm 43 now.. lol

 

[Yolked]

I know I'm biased but when it comes to healing, I cant say enough about localized effects of GHS peptides and unpegged MGF. They do exactly what ur looking for.

While EQ, DECA etc would be more fun, if ur really just looking for healing of joints then GH peps are the way to go.

Granted, this is only a good option if u are 100% sure about the quality of ur peps. Chinese grade doesnt count, lol.

"Unpegged MGF"? Yeah thinking about HGH in future if don't get any better.

 

[Whacked]

Look into TB-500

 

[superbeast668]

Hopefully he chimes in with his experience. I THOUGHT he ran it for 4 months or so. I know he switched over to Test/Tren blend of 100/100mg per wk, & has since switched to pinning Trestolone Ace at 12.5mg/day & now 25 like fueledpassion, I believe. But he was rolling on deca solo for a bit.

yeah it was from january until mid april that i ran deca pretty much solo for the most part. i started it at 300 mg for a few months, went up to 600 for a few then tapered back down. libido never increased, or dropped off. unless my prolactin was getting high or my estrogen was out of range i had no issue with getting a boner. ask my woman. she's always quite satisfied. my libido did increase on test/tren at cruise doses and its back to what it normally is with just natty test which im around 600ish after a solid pct now that i'm on the trest. all the crap everyone hears about deca is pretty much mythological. stop believing everything said in forums. if you cant get a hard on its not the drugs fault its your fault for not controlling your other hormonal levels.

eq can also cause "deca dick" type issues. typically those issues are due to higher estrogen related issues, as eq does aromatize quite a bit. about 60% of the rate of testosterone.

both are good i'd prefer cruising on deca at a lower dose for my joints because i notice a bit of excitability and anxiety on eq. eq is actually on paper better for sore creaky joints but thats if you can keep your e2 controlled properly. i always tend to nuke mine with eq but thats because i do run eq with test. i've never ran it solo and probably wont ever try.

 

[Yolked]

I've had similar experience with deca at lower doses but think higher doses would cause issues.

 

[fueledpassion]

I've had similar experience with deca at lower doses but think higher doses would cause issues.

Thing is, Deca is extremely potent in the myotropic perspective so I'd bet even 100-200mg/wk is a serious upgrade from regular TRT.

 

[Gutterpump]

Ooh.. I'm leary of running deca over 200mg/wk. EQ hits the androgen receptors better than deca but deca seems to lubricate better but not as much synthesis. EQ seems to cause deca dick as well but not quite as fast.. give and take...

I've run EQ + mast for 5 months and never had any issues the whole time. Quite the opposite, and very low sides. Hardly needed an AI as well.

 

[Yolked]

I've run EQ + mast for 5 months and never had any issues the whole time. Quite the opposite, and very low sides. Hardly needed an AI as well.

That sounds like a good cycle. Masteron will take care of any aromatizeation issues which is very little with EQ. I've had good experiences with DHT but seemed to dry out my joints. Used alot of EQ and Nandrolone at lower doses when younger with and without others and never had much issues with sides. I'm older and seem more susceptible to sides. Going to start with100mg EQ a week with 110mg test and see how it goes. I'm looking for more callogen synthesis with degenerative disc's and a previous microdisctectomy on herniated disc in lower back. Also going to pick up some Deca and hit a round of that too.. I've been trying to go with the TRT type of programs but I've found DHT makes me feel a whole lot better than test does. But joints start aching..

 

[Gutterpump]

Test was 125-200mg / week (basically around TRT dose)
EQ 500 / week
Mast 350 / week

Very good on joints. Low sides, just needed daily Nizoral 2% and occasionally some liquid accutane.

 

[Yolked]

Test was 125-200mg / week (basically around TRT dose)
EQ 500 / week
Mast 350 / week

Very good on joints. Low sides, just needed daily Nizoral 2% and occasionally some liquid accutane.

I think I got a good setup right now. 55mg andropen275 e3.5days, 100mg EQ e3.5days- 200mg/week split for easy dosing with test... I used to do that with low strength (50mg/ml) slow action stuff to help get blood levels up faster.. it was a theory we came up with seemed to work. lol Instead of 1 separate big shot, mix EQ with the stuff I use more frequently(propionate)- and spread it out. Absorbing from multiple depots instead of one. A lot of low strength Mexican gear back in 80's and 90's. 50mg deca, laura, primotest, primobolan, ganabol, etc etc. chemistry 101.

 

[Gutterpump]

Nice. I wish I could stay on EQ.. I love it. I bet it doesn't have bad sides at all at 100mg/week. 500mg/week with some Tbol thrown in is really nice though and easy on the joints. Tbol makes my heart race now though for some reason and I can't touch it unfortunately But from what I've read, it's very forgiving on the joints as well.

 

[Gutterpump]

Btw, I've tried TB-500 before, seemed to be useful.... but after more reading, it seems that the proper effective dose is much much higher than what people are doing out there. And there's the whole cancer causing / cancer fighting debate as well... I don't think I will use it again. GHRP's might be very useful in the longterm.

 

[fueledpassion]

Btw, I've tried TB-500 before, seemed to be useful.... but after more reading, it seems that the proper effective dose is much much higher than what people are doing out there. And there's the whole cancer causing / cancer fighting debate as well... I don't think I will use it again. GHRP's might be very useful in the longterm.

Ghrp has a local healing effect if injected appropriately.

IM L-Carnitine helps the heart when on roids.

 

[Yolked]

Nice. I wish I could stay on EQ.. I love it. I bet it doesn't have bad sides at all at 100mg/week. 500mg/week with some Tbol thrown in is really nice though and easy on the joints. Tbol makes my heart race now though for some reason and I can't touch it unfortunately But from what I've read, it's very forgiving on the joints as well.

Yeah it's been a while but I'm remembering how much I liked it too. This setup should be good

 

[Yolked]

I'm taking iForce's Joint Help and seems to be helping too.. brand new product with Par Actin and Cissus Quadrangularus. Tribulus 3x a day(herbal HCG-stims LH. lol.. seems to help), glucosamine MSM, CLA, omega3-6 and a multi with whey protein. Arginine boosts NO and helps BP. ZMA at bed. Transdermal chrysin has been helping aromatization.

 

[Gutterpump]

IM L-Carnitine helps the heart when on roids.

Did a lot of research on this lately. IM L-car is almost useless without taking slin alongside it Without slin, it would take 80-100 days of taking it alongside roughly 80g of carbs just to raise muscle carnitine stores by 20%. With slin, the effect is almost immediate.

I had my hopes up too, but I'm not going to touch slin

 

[fueledpassion]

Did a lot of research on this lately. IM L-car is almost useless without taking slin alongside it Without slin, it would take 80-100 days of taking it alongside roughly 80g of carbs just to raise muscle carnitine stores by 20%. With slin, the effect is almost immediate.

I had my hopes up too, but I'm not going to touch slin

Naw, u need about 75g of high glycemic carbs with about 20-40g protein with it, about 20.minutes AFTER L-Carnitine injection into muscle. If u choose subq, wait about 45-60 minutes before eating those carbs/protein.

It doesn't take supra physiological insulin to do it.

And the 80-100 days is for oral administration.

Dude, inject 3 mL into ur glutes, eat ur carb/protein rich meal and come back and tell me it's worthless, lol. U wont.

Effects ARE immediate and training is GREAT with it. I plan to take about 1 IM daily during last r weeks of contest prep. It's pretty amazing all by itself.

 

[Gutterpump]

From what I read, that method takes a very very long time to work. Was reading some posts from HereToStudy

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/196966-injectable-carnitine-when.html

 

[fueledpassion]

From what I read, that method takes a very very long time to work. Was reading some posts from HereToStudy

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/196966-injectable-carnitine-when.html

It takes 90mu/L of insulin to get the desired result of L-Carnitine uptake. That can be achieved with a large carb meal but since we need elevated insulin levels for a long period of time, a mix of fast and slow releasing carbs as well as protein may be necessary. I'm thinking:

6 oz chicken breast
large baked potato

Or

1 cup maltodextrin with 1-2 scoops of whey protein.


Seriously, I just finished my first vial. It's no bull.

 

[Gutterpump]

fueledpassion - what do you think of the combo of inj l-car, AMP, B-12? Do you think these will work fairly synergistically? And do you think this would be a good combo for recomping while 'off', like basically used at the tail end of a cut to remove that last 4-5%?

 

[fueledpassion]

fueledpassion - what do you think of the combo of inj l-car, AMP, B-12? Do you think these will work fairly synergistically? And do you think this would be a good combo for recomping while 'off', like basically used at the tail end of a cut to remove that last 4-5%?

I'm not sure about AMP. But L-Carnitine is really good for these things:

1) Burning fat
2) Endurance
3) Lower heart rate
4) Local fascia stretching (like Synthol)
5) Harder erections

Yep, the B-12 would be a good match for sure. Even better would be to add Chromium.

 

[Gutterpump]

Thanks! "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fueledpassion again."

 

[fueledpassion]

Thanks! "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fueledpassion again."

Wha? Is that what it told u? Lol...

 

[Gutterpump]

yeah haha... it won't let me rep you until I rep other people first lol

 

[fueledpassion]

yeah haha... it won't let me rep you until I rep other people first lol

That's fair.

 

[kisaj]

Go ahead and rep me and then I'll rep you and you can rep fueled. lol

 

[fueledpassion]

How about I rep both of you for working together to rep me!

 

[Gutterpump]

kisaj - I repped you and 3 other people and it still won't let me rep fueled! lol

 

[fueledpassion]

kisaj - I repped you and 3 other people and it still won't let me rep fueled! lol

Haha

 

[kisaj]

Making it hard to help each other around here!

 

[Hyde]

I repped him for you - I'm learning some goodness here for whenev I start playing w/ needles some day.

 

[superbeast668]

I repped him for you - I'm learning some goodness here for whenev I start playing w/ needles some day.

Needles are nice.

 

[Gutterpump]

Needles are nice.

Running peptides makes one feel like a bit of a pincushion though haha

 

[fueledpassion]

Running peptides makes one feel like a bit of a pincushion though haha

Painless dude. So worth the appetite/fat burning/recovery effects too.

 

[Gutterpump]

It's definitely painless, it's just such a hassle Need to be prepared to pin wherever you are at certain times of the day and keep vials cold.

 

[Yolked]

How about I rep both of you for working together to rep me!

Kumbaya Kumbaya.... lol!

 

[Gutterpump]

Naw, u need about 75g of high glycemic carbs with about 20-40g protein with it, about 20.minutes AFTER L-Carnitine injection into muscle. If u choose subq, wait about 45-60 minutes before eating those carbs/protein.

It doesn't take supra physiological insulin to do it.

And the 80-100 days is for oral administration.

Dude, inject 3 mL into ur glutes, eat ur carb/protein rich meal and come back and tell me it's worthless, lol. U wont.

Effects ARE immediate and training is GREAT with it. I plan to take about 1 IM daily during last r weeks of contest prep. It's pretty amazing all by itself.

I was going to PM the question but figured I'd post here for everyone's knowledge.

I'm getting a vial that's 200mg/mL (I'm sure you know the source).
What would you recommend for dosing? They recommend once a day, but I know that's too low.

FWIW, I'll also be using Myosin-5 (AMP-5) with this, along with Ipamorelin/CJC/HuperzineA & Osta, no AAS involved, and will be following a contest-prep diet, except for the extra carbs involved with the l-car

 

[fueledpassion]

U need to load first.

How heavy are u?

 

[Gutterpump]

U need to load first.

How heavy are u?

6'2 225# at 14% BF

 

[kisaj]

I bet you look like a beast.